"best" 2F (1 Viewer)

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Chef said:
Thanks Mark:) So you're good with the FelPro engine kit that has front/rear mains, head set, gasket, valve stem seals and all? Do you reacll if the pan gaket is one piece with FelPro?

alan
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Yep. I can't remember if the pan is a one piece in the Felpro set. I thiunk it is. I know it is in the ITM set.


Mark...
 
coinless said:
So what is the consensus for the best 2f?
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Did you read this thread?


Mark...
 
What options exist for getting either getting away from or improving the *inferior* rods that came in, say, a mid '70s 2F?

Is whatever weight and strength issues the heavy rods have make it worthwhile to go with something else?

BTW, I thought the pre-'80 something heads were less prone to crack than later 2F heads. True?
 
The earlier 2F heads are a little stouter and much less likely to crack than the later ones.

The best rods (as mentioned earlier in this thread) are the late model ones. Lighter and stronger.

The rod bolt is still the same and is still the wek link in the bottom end.


Mark...
 
I have used Felpro gasket on my rebuilds but I have always used the head gasket from Toyota. I tried using the intake/exhaust from felpro but it leaked on a new intake/exhaust. I don't mind using the 4 peice set if the engine is sitting on the bench and they have not leaked. If you put the gaskets on the pan with paper weights over night it will mold themselves to the pan to make installation easier But it's a pain to install if its upside down. I have used the front and back seals with no problem.

Chef said:
Been a while since I needed a full gasket set...but I have a 78 2F I pulled from a junker to re-gasket/re-seal and put in my 1965 FJ45LV...runs good, shows 150+ psi on all six cylinders...
Is the complete FelPro kit I'm gonna get at Napa gonna be good stuff, or is it recommended to go to the dealer for:
Head gasket
Pan gasket (cause it's one pice instead of four?)
intake/exhaust
front and rear main seals, valve stem seals?

thanks, alan
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Last edited:
2F complete overhaul set:
$215 from toyota, 2 sets in country, one in KC;) be here in the morning
$150 from felpro, can't tell me if it's one or four piece pan gakset, and won't let you open the box to look unless you keep it. And the valve stem seals are extreeee.

I ordered the toyota bits.
 
Don't worry the pan gasket is a 4 piece set.....good choice, I pay a little extra too just because of the head and intake/exhaust gaskets. As matter fact of I have extra head gaskets and intake/exhaust sitting on the shelf from Felpro.
 
Mark W said:
The earlier 2F heads are a little stouter and much less likely to crack than the later ones.

The best rods (as mentioned earlier in this thread) are the late model ones. Lighter and stronger.

The rod bolt is still the same and is still the wek link in the bottom end.


Mark...
Click to expand...
Course the flip side to that is that the older heads only used the domed pistons (cept for 74 I believe) So you are losing some in the efficency dept. Correct?
 
Mark W said:
The earlier 2F heads are a little stouter and much less likely to crack than the later ones.

The best rods (as mentioned earlier in this thread) are the late model ones. Lighter and stronger.

The rod bolt is still the same and is still the wek link in the bottom end.


Mark...
Click to expand...

IS the 3FE head better than the 2F heads from the 1980's?
 
Chef said:
2F complete overhaul set:
$215 from toyota, 2 sets in country, one in KC;) be here in the morning
$150 from felpro, can't tell me if it's one or four piece pan gakset, and won't let you open the box to look unless you keep it. And the valve stem seals are extreeee.

I ordered the toyota bits.
Click to expand...
That's a hell of a deal. I checked yesterday and the 85-87 2F valve grind gasket set was $225 list from Toyota.

Every Felpro gasket set I've gotten has had VS seals in it.
Doesn't matter to me, 'cause they get thrown away and replaced with Ford:eek: VS seals to fit the 11/32 valve stems.
 
PabloCruise said:
IS the 3FE head better than the 2F heads from the 1980's?
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In previous posts I have stated that the 3F head has a slightly smaller chamber than 2F.

This is incorrect. I made a mistake. :eek: There, I said it.

It turns out that they are exactly the same.

The 2F has a 8.3CR and the 3F & 3FE have an 8.1CR. The difference in CR is due to the reduced displacement of the 3F.
 
Mace said:
Course the flip side to that is that the older heads only used the domed pistons (cept for 74 I believe) So you are losing some in the efficency dept. Correct?
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Yes, but iirc, Mark wrote about cutting an earlier head down a fair amount to get the compression back up when using an earlier 2F head on a later block with flat-top pistons...

I cannot find it out here, it may have been on the LCML or the Trails...

-Steve
 
FJ40Jim said:
That's a hell of a deal. I checked yesterday and the 85-87 2F valve grind gasket set was $225 list from Toyota.

Every Felpro gasket set I've gotten has had VS seals in it.
Doesn't matter to me, 'cause they get thrown away and replaced with Ford:eek: VS seals to fit the 11/32 valve stems.
Click to expand...


I've been doing biz with my dealer for decades, they're really good to me:)
 
The difference in efficiency is a separate issue from CR. The early head can be cut down, and the block can be bored, both will increase CR. But the open chamber w/dome design is still not as efficient as a closed chamber w/ flattop design.

Close chamber advantages include: less wetted area, flame travel distance is reduced, more turbulence & squish....

I am not recommending that everyone remove & discard their 80-earlier F/2F head. But if one wants to build the best 2F, the later head will give slightly more efficiency, all things being equal.
 
Poser said:
Yes, but iirc, Mark wrote about cutting an earlier head down a fair amount to get the compression back up when using an earlier 2F head on a later block with flat-top pistons...

I cannot find it out here, it may have been on the LCML or the Trails...

-Steve
Click to expand...


This works great. I've done it a few times just because the later heads are harder to source. The open chamber design is not as efficient as the closed chamber in an engine like this. No question about it. But from what I have seen, in terms of real world fuel consumption and power you will never be able to descern the difference unless you are pushiung the envelope of 2F performance. Maybe not even then. If you have a late model 2F with a good head, use it. But if your head is cracked and you can't find a replacement, this gives you an option.

We have also installed mid vintage F heads on 2Fs w/flatops. These have a closed chamber too and are designed for a smaller displacement. This will boost compression, especially if combined with a little bit of cut to the head. You have to address the oiling needs of the rocker arms. We tapped into the oil gallery running across the block from the filter, but you can also T off of the pressure sender and run an external line up to the lip under the valve cover and enter the head ther to reach the rocker arm assembly.
Late vintage F head ('73-'74... some gray area '72s even) onto an early vintage 2F ('75-'80) is a bolt on swap with gives a nice boost to the compression.


Mark...
 
Poser said:
Yes, but iirc, Mark wrote about cutting an earlier head down a fair amount to get the compression back up when using an earlier 2F head on a later block with flat-top pistons...

I cannot find it out here, it may have been on the LCML or the Trails...

-Steve
Click to expand...

You can find bits and pieces of it on the LCML but it's not all in one thread like here.

It might have been me.. I mentioned it a few times here. I put a 76ish head on an 82 per what mark had told me. I had a few options of early f heads but I didn't feel like messing with the oiling if I didn't have to. I had a couple of fj60 heads but they were all cracked. The 76ish head had been shaved before so I went with 50 thousands off instead of going too much iirc
 
PabloCruise said:
Can you elaborate as to why you do this? I am guessing you have found this to be a superior seal - less oil consumption?
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The stock seals fit 8mm valvestems.

The "foreign" seals fit the foreign valves and go on the Toy guides without machining guides.
 
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