Yet another LSPV/ABS delete how to...

[scrowley]

Did this mod and like most am SUPER happy. Now how do I turn off ABS light? looks like pulling bulb involves dash removal

Speedo cluster comes right out by itself. Pull bulb. Replace d bike while in there....you know it's blown out..Ha.

 

[mtnzorro]

Thanks for posting this. I've been without ABS since my part-time conversion, and this gave me the motivation to remove all of it, along with lspv. i was able to use the bracket on the elbow to secure the rear lines where my lspv used to reside. thanks for pointing that out, otherwise i'd have likely just chopped it off.

 

[blake_fzj80]

good writeup!

I used this thread to remove all my ABS/LSPV stuff this past weekend. No need to buy more parts!

I have not yet bled the brakes, but after a few pumps, they seem to work great!

 

[1peterlight]

I know this is an old thread, I'm hoping to open back up, but is it any less safe once you remove the ABS? I have air trapped in mine right now and can't find anyone but the dealer to remedy it, so this may be an option, but I also have no EBrake so I'm a little concerned about what happens when something goes wrong down the the road with brakes?

 

[Rivman1243]

I know this is an old thread, I'm hoping to open back up, but is it any less safe once you remove the ABS? I have air trapped in mine right now and can't find anyone but the dealer to remedy it, so this may be an option, but I also have no EBrake so I'm a little concerned about what happens when something goes wrong down the the road with brakes?

Do you have any dirt roads nearby?

 

[TexasD90]

Did this today. Took less than an hour, and unbelievable difference! I've been fighting soft pedal for a year. Thank you for putting this together for all of us.

 

[alia176]

Did this today. Took less than an hour, and unbelievable difference! I've been fighting soft pedal for a year. Thank you for putting this together for all of us.

Holy cow, you did the ABS and LSPV delete in less than an hour? Crikey!!!!

 

[Dave 2000]

I am in the keep the ABS camp and do have stock size tyres. Putting bigger wheels on a car (which I would like myself) will make stopping it more difficult for the same pedal pressure. When Spanish cars are tested they look for the ABS light, yes it would be easy to put in a timer to switch the light off, so it is not the test that bothers me. I am all for good brakes but for me it is the liability issue, if the ABS stopped my car by one foot and I missed a kiddy then that's the argument settled.

regards

Dave

 

[Mr Cimarron]

I am in the keep the ABS camp and do have stock size tyres. Putting bigger wheels on a car (which I would like myself) will make stopping it more difficult for the same pedal pressure. When Spanish cars are tested they look for the ABS light, yes it would be easy to put in a timer to switch the light off, so it is not the test that bothers me. I am all for good brakes but for me it is the liability issue, if the ABS stopped my car by one foot and I missed a kiddy then that's the argument settled.

regards

Dave

No need for timer on switch. Just remove the bulb.

 

[SmokingRocks]

No need for timer on switch. Just remove the bulb.

No he said that the spanish testers look for the ABS light at start up during the bulb check that everyone LC does. My emissions testing center told me my CEL was out but since my rig is OBD 1 it didn't fail me. I was surprised that they were that perceptive (the other two times I brought in the rig they never noticed).

I'm in the DELETE ABS camp. IMO the system is a pain to bleed and I would say that MOST who have done home maintenance and brake work on their 80's have some trapped air in the system. That means that even though you have ABS you don't have good brakes and probably couldn't lock them (with bigger tires especially) with the ABS system installed because of that air. Once the ABS system is removed it is very easy to bleed all the air out and have sharp brakes.

I would love to do a 50-0 test between my rig and an ABS's rig to see the comparison. I imagine it would be very very close if not advantage me. Without a doubt I stop faster now than I did with the ABS in.

 

[Dave 2000]

Interesting that ABS was around sometime before the air bag system, and yet they have always checked the air bag light. Ironic that something that could help prevent the collision in the first place has only been added to the inspection since last year.

I know there are sayers and the no sayers for the ABS and all have an opinion and entitled to it. I must confess that bleeding the system after a total rebuild was a PITA! I managed it by pressure bleeding and ABS activation and another pressure brake bleed, and I am sure they could do with another go?

I think given the age of the technology that is employed in our beasts it is entirely possible that assuming all else is equal (tyres sizes for example) that an arranged test between them would be hard to call a winner. But I think where ABS wins is during the 'moment of inattention'.

Scenario:

You are happily relaxed driving down the road, glance in the mirror, and just as you return to the road a ball rolls out from between two cars followed by a very fast kid. Now, the accident WILL happen you are going to hit something, this is one of those moments you KNOW there is going to be a collision, the drivers reaction will be to slam on the brakes as hard as possible and steer away, and no you will NOT make a calculated emergency stop, that's complete bollocks and only for the movies. This is where the ABS is going to win, it is by allowing you to steer around the object in front of you, now in that split second did you manage to swerve and hit the ball or, did you with super sharp brakes, lock up and plough straight on into the kid that was chasing said ball?

Stop here if you are a little squeamish.

I would not wish for anyone to kill someone in an accident but I have had that unfortunate experience. A guy who had been drinking walked out in front of me, I was on a green traffic light, as he stepped out I did steer and hit the brakes at the same time. The loaded van did NOT have ABS, I definitely got some steering input before the brakes locked and the van skidded, the van moving perhaps two feet to the left as the wheels locked? Perhaps the split second delay between brain to arm and hands to steer followed by brain to leg and brake? I managed to miss the guy with the front of the van, but alas there was insufficient steering left with the front brakes locked to get the van any further to the left, the drivers side mirror hit him in the side of the head, he died a few days later from his injuries. IF and I mean IF the van had ABS would I have managed to get another few inches to the left, and would the mirror have missed him, we will never know? There is unfortunately a terrible irony in this story but that is not relevant to this post.

I am not doubting any claim whatsoever that getting rid of the ABS system improves the braking POWER or perhaps reaction of the brakes but the reality is, the human brain is ONLY going to be telling the hands/arms/leg/foot to react as quickly as possible, and you WILL hit the brake pedal as quick and as hard as you possibly can (pure human instinct), and steer the car away from the object you are going to hit. All other brain functions are put on hold, everything happens so fast. NO, you will NOT use 'cadence braking'. NO, you will NOT apply the brakes hard....ish and then release them. The fact is you simply do not have the time, everything is going to happen within a split second, the ball or the kid?

regards

Dave

 

[SmokingRocks]

I am not doubting any claim whatsoever that getting rid of the ABS system improves the braking POWER or perhaps reaction of the brakes but the reality is, the human brain is ONLY going to be telling the hands/arms/leg/foot to react as quickly as possible, and you WILL hit the brake pedal as quick and as hard as you possibly can (pure human instinct), and steer the car away from the object you are going to hit. All other brain functions are put on hold, everything happens so fast. NO, you will NOT use 'cadence braking'. NO, you will NOT apply the brakes hard....ish and then release them. The fact is you simply do not have the time, everything is going to happen within a split second, the ball or the kid?

regards

Dave

Yep as a sanctioned racing instructor I am aware of the benifits of an ABS system. And if my system wasn't so totally mechanically and electronically fooked up by the previous owner I too would probably keep and bleed, skid, bleed skid the system.

While my situation certainly isn't the norm, I can say that modulating full "panic" brake force with 35"+ tires with stock sized rotors is not as impossible as you make it out.

Sure on stock michelin's you are going to lock and slide right through or over. But 35" heavy MT's?? Not in my experience. I've been in two panic stops in 80's due to unforeseeable conditions. Mine had abs, the other had a delete both on 35''s and rather armored out. In mine I thought I was going to plow a path through traffic in because it wasn't stopping. In the other 80 I didn't lock up but rather nearly locked up, tires were squealing but under rotating.. It was very easy to modulate the brake force and maintain control.

The take away? My ABS air holding system was like having one working brake, while the not having abs was like having a little dude kick out a cruise ship sized anchor behind the 80. A -fully- bled ABS 80 will always win over a non ABS rig, however given the propensity of the ABS system to capture and retain air I doubt many 80's on the road with ABS are in that category.

 

[1FZj80]

and you WILL hit the brake pedal as quick and as hard as you possibly can (pure human instinct), and steer the car away from the object you are going to hit. All other brain functions are put on hold, everything happens so fast. NO, you will NOT use 'cadence braking'. NO, you will NOT apply the brakes hard....ish and then release them. The fact is you simply do not have the time, everything is going to happen within a split second, the ball or the kid?

regards

Dave

it can be done.
brake in a straight line if possible and don't swerve off the road to avoid a deer/rabbit/car. hit the deer/car not the tree or power pole on the road side!
if a big impact it imminent take your hands off the steering wheel and pull your knees to you chest before impact.
most drivers can't do it because they do not practice it and do not understand why it should be done in the first place.
your brain is smart enough if it is practiced and you understand how to crash.

 

[Dave 2000]

Yep as a high sanctioned racing instructor I am aware of the benifits of an ABS system. And if my system wasn't so totally mechanically and electronically fooked up by the previous owner I too would probably keep and bleed, skid, bleed skid the system.

Dave 2000 said:

True, it is very difficult to put right something that someone else has cocked up, and know for a fact it will work when you need it perhaps six months down the line.

While my situation certainly isn't the norm, I can say that modulating full "panic" brake force with 35"+ tires with stock sized rotors is not as impossible as you make it out.

I am not saying you cannot modulate the brake (regardless or tyre size), I am saying in a true panic situation you will hit the brake as hard as you can, you will not have the time to think. How many times can you 'think' about applying the brake and release it and apply steering force to the steering wheel and then actually doing it.......in one second? Experienced drivers can very quickly see and react to a 'close encounter' and they instinctively know if there is at least a chance to avoid the accident, and will brake accordingly but not when it happens unexpectedly I am talking about the genuine NOW accident, not the one where you thought you were going to hit someone/something and had time to 'try' steering or brake modulation, there would be no time for none of that.

Sure on stock michelin's you are going to lock and slide right through or over. But 35" heavy MT's?? Not in my experience. I've been in two panic stops in 80's due to unforeseeable conditions. Mine had abs, the other had a delete both on 35''s and rather armored out. In mine I thought I was going to plow a path through traffic in because it wasn't stopping. In the other 80 I didn't lock up but rather nearly locked up, tires were squealing but under rotating.. It was very easy to modulate the brake force and maintain control.

So, with standard tyres ABS should be kept, and when changing to say 35+ it should be deleted, this could be the answer? But we know it is a fact of physics that the taller and heavier rotational mass is harder to stop right? So the wheel will take more braking effort to slow/stop rotation and will actually be more difficult to lock, which we know we do not want. And assuming the vehicle is armoured, then the additional weight (more physics) will add to the stopping distance. I completely agree that a tyre on the brink of locking is better than a locked wheel, but herein lies the problem, getting the balance right. IMO I don't think the brakes on the 80 are that great in the first place, as a mechanic I drive hundreds of different cars every year, so have plenty to compare with. It is entirely possible that the heavy armoured/larger tyre '80' is going to struggle to lock it's brakes, and even if you can are you going to get the pressure right when you really need them? The trouble with a discussion like this is that there are so many variables. Braking materials pads/discs, different fluids, surface temperatures, MT tyres versus a stock tyre for example, do they have more actual rubber in contact with the actual surface over a stock tyre? So many variables, so it is difficult to get an accurate picture. I also hold a heavy goods licence and drove for many years HGV's with and without ABS, I never had any occasion to invoke the ABS system so cannot comment on it's effectiveness, but do know what mass does for stopping distance.

The take away? My ABS air holding system was like having one working brake, while the not having abs was like having a little dude kick out a cruise ship sized anchor behind the 80. A -fully- bled ABS 80 will always win over a non ABS rig, however given the propensity of the ABS system to capture and retain air I doubt many 80's on the road with ABS are in that category.

I fully agree with that statement. Despite 47 years under the hood, it still took a total of four different bleeding 'sessions' and various techniques to get the air out of my 80 last December, I did document this in My LC 80 thread., and if I am truthful I am still not convinced it is 100% clear.

regards

Dave

 

[Dave 2000]

it can be done.
brake in a straight line if possible and don't swerve off the road to avoid a deer/rabbit/car. hit the deer/car not the tree or power pole on the road side!
if a big impact it imminent take your hands off the steering wheel and pull your knees to you chest before impact.
most drivers can't do it because they do not practice it and do not understand why it should be done in the first place.
your brain is smart enough if it is practiced and you understand how to crash.

No, it does not happen like that, the kid is a human being, you will panic brake and possibly try to steer to miss him. In fact it is possible you would slam on the brakes and grip the steering and hold it dead straight as you froze, but if you did input some steering effort then the wheels would not lock with the ABS. So easy to say what we would do pre accident, in reality it is not that easy.

regards

Dave

 

[alia176]

Gents,

This is a "how to" not a "why" thread so please, minimize the chatter if you would!!

 

[Dave 2000]

Gents,

This is a "how to" not a "why" thread so please, minimize the chatter if you would!!

And considering the thread pretty much died out six days ago, AFTER the procedure was well laid out and documented (kudo's to the PO), your sentence contributes.......er..........what to this thread?

regards

Dave

 

[Bigwilly80s96]

Aside from the why you should or should not, I used these directions, deleted the ABS, stops perfectly, bled easily, turned out to be a blessing because the line feeding the rear brakes basically fell apart in my fingers as I was taking it apart. I was getting a very heavy thump every time I applied the brakes with the ABS, getting rid of the ABS completely solved this problem.

 

[Dave 2000]

Good to hear your happy. A lot of people have had good results with this mod, fair to say it is nice to drive a car that has brakes that give you confidence.

Best not chat any more, the forum police will be along soon.

regards

Dave

 

[bmwjnky]

I'm going to keep my ABS for now but would like to remove the LSPV. I bypassed the LSPV about a week ago by cutting the rod and tieing it in the up position and it made a big improvement. Does anyone have a prefered part number for the T fitting to put in place of the LSPV?