wont idle and amp meter is pegging

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Yup set the new points to fsm specs when installed about a month ago. Everything had been working normal since then.
All said though I dont have a lot of miles in this truck and it seems I am working multiple bugs out as the appear.
More new junk I throw at it now...the less I gotta throw at it later!
 
Ok LOL...New starter, coil, alternator, regulator, battery, ignition components, battery cables, etc.
Still turning slow when hot. I gotta get a timing light.
Hoping dirtsquirt has it nailed.
 
points

if you installed the points a month ago check em again---dont take long and they could have slipped. Might be able to get away with retarding the timing a little with out a light but do it while running so you dont get way out
 
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Ya I am surprised it runs as good as it does if that is the case.
But that story you posted makes 2...so we shall see!
I will pick up a light tomorrow as I didnt make it in time back to napa today.
Small town life is good but not the best place to shop after 5 on sunday.
 
Timing doesn't change significantly with heat.

The starter motor has to sink a couple of hundred amps during cranking. How do you think that it does that if it doesn't have a ground that is as big as the battery cable? I have never seen a car that didn't have some kind of specific ground cable for the engine or starter motor.
 
I dunno pin like I said I ran a jumper cable (as in jump start) from the neg post to the starter housing/mounting bolt when it was spinning slow and it made 0 change.
Specter shows one 58 on...where did it bolt to? Anyone gotta pic? Either way I will toss one on but I dont think thats the problem.
groundstrap.gif
 
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A grounding strap is cheap, put one on. On my 71 it goes from the starter mounting bolt to the brake line T connector on the frame. See Pic.

FYI a digital Fluke 87 meter also has the ability to zero out the meter leads.
P7180141.webp
 
Timing

Timing does not change with heat but an engine with the timing advanced too far can become hard to start when hot. I experienced that myself experimenting with the timing
but that was on a big block chevy but the principal would be the same on any motor

THis is because the firing happens before too far before TDC and the motor has to fight to get the piston fully up instead of trying to run backwards and since it is harder to start when hot its worse
You could disable the ignition by pulling the coil wire and see if it still does it while hot



" The starter motor has to sink a couple of hundred amps during cranking. How do you think that it does that if it doesn't have a ground that is as big as the battery cable? I have never seen a car that didn't have some kind of specific ground cable for the engine or starter motor"


x2 YOU NEED A GROUND CABLE FROM YOUR ENGINE!!

Ground cables arent put on the engine because components cant find a path to ground and be able to work---they are put there because those paths exist but are not enough or not reliable, they are not designed to carry the starter load! The ground strap makes sure all of the current can flow reliably.

Dont rely on the jumper cable test---buy or make a good heavy ground cable and clean the area where it attaches to bare metal and bolt it in. The usual place is from the starter mount bolt to the frame

Like Pin said you have to have this! Believe this! If you have a high resistance, intermittent, or non exsistent ground you can put all the power you want to it but it will not flow in the circuit to make work happen!

The less resistance, the more current that flows

If you havent done this yet, you need to ---cheap and less than 5 minutes work
 
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I had this EXACT problem. Truck would run fine when it was cool, and had intermittent starting issues. I'd pull up to a stoplight, and the dang truck would die, and when I turned off the radio, and cranked like hell (yes, it was turning over S-L-O-W-L-Y), it would eventually fire up. I was baffled at the time. It finally came to a head, when the truck died and would not start. wouldn't even crank. not even a click.

I'd had this problem a few times in the past (not cranking), but it was so intermittent that I couldn't sort out all of the issues so I could go about fixing it. I'd come out a few hours later, and she'd fire right up, like nothing ever happened. Added a new battery, new cables, was on the verge of adding a new gear reduction starter, when I decided to ask for help on here. IIRC, the first and most popular answer was to install a ground strap.

Pin_head (and others) mentioned very early on that you should have a ground strap. Just because it's not on your truck now doesn't mean you shouldn't have one. I bought my truck about a year ago, and there was no ground strap. I'm pretty sure that the person I bought my truck from had a 'reputable' shop install the GR starter. For some reason, there was no ground strap installed.

for less than 10 bucks, I fixed all of my electrical gremlins. I picked mine up at Autozone, but I'm thinking I might get a bigger ground strap from Tractor Supply. I saw a ground strap for a tractor that I might get.

Have you installed a ground strap from the starter to the frame yet ?

--jeff
 
ground strap

So now you are convinced! :lol::deadhorse:

hoping to hear your trouble is over soon!:steer::steer:
 
Ugggg! Ok I think I may start a new post as my problems are completely different now.
Here is the latest...

Set timing to spec with timing light. Went for a drive as truck warmed up it developed a miss under accel. When I got home with a warm motor. It started fine! So the timing was the issuse with the hot start! Thank you dirtsquirt!
But now the thing runs like crap.
My thought is that the distributor is worn out. The PO adjusted the timing to get enough advance to make it run ok...but that caused the hot start issue. So now that I am timed proper its missing.
Also the timing seems to jump around. I can set it, rev it up, and check it again and its different. Is this a sign of a worn dist? The shaft has some side to side slop.
I pulled the dist and took it apart. The centrifical advance mech is clean and working proper.
We were not getting much vac at the vac advance.
My 69 has a funny doo-hickey on the drivers inner fender that all the vac lines run to from...do these ever have issues?
Its a cylinder about 6 inches long and a couple inches round with one wire going to it...tested wire and voltage was very low.
What is this thing? What does it do?

So if I need a new dist...what do I get? Do I have mine rebuilt or just go to napa and buy a new one?

ps...pin I did get a ground strap for the starter to frame but have not installed it yet...but the hot start issue seems to be fixed. I will still put it on for good measure but I think the timing was the issue.
 
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advance

Well congrats on the start prob! 1 down anyway

Did you disco and plug the vacuum advance when you set the timing?

I know there are others but FJ40JIM is an expert on the distribs and advance if you post up on a timing issue he will probably jump on it when he is on. He is desmogging and rebuilding both my carb and distrib now so dont pull him away too long!:D

How about the gear---no 40 in the pic does it look worn?
022_stand.gif
 
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Im wondering if my dist is not original. My FSM shows the same one as that pic for 69-71.
But my dist does not have the octane selector dial at the end of the vac advance (38-39 in pic).
It sure looks like orig and the bolts holding it on sure looked like they have never been off.

I did pull the vac line and plug it when setting timing. I did not feel any vac at the line though even with some throttle. I pulled the main vac line from the carb and have good suck there.
Wondering if the doohickey that all the vac lines run to on the inner fender is gunked up or?

no 7 vsv valve...I am just wondering if my vac advance is not working because of this thing...the diaphragm on my carb seems to move with throttle so vac seems to be working other places...just not feeling near enough to move that stiff diaphragm on the vac advance.

Crap I wish I would of got the better timing light so I could tell my total advance when revved up....
mechanical advance seems to be freely working. But I have a bad running motor when time to bb at idle.

048A.gif
 
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WOOOOOOT! I think I (we) figured it out FINALLY! LOL
I took the distributor apart and cleaned the crap out of it.
I think between the centrifugal weights hanging up and the vac advance assembly plates being sticky with old grease and dirt it was keeping it from advancing/returning.
Guessing the PO just advanced the timing to compensate and make it run smooth.
I was just winging it as I have never been inside a distributor before but when I put it back in, it fired right up and I had oil pressure. Lil tweak on the timing and I took it for a spin. Pulls HARD! Harder than it ever has! No stutter on acceleration. Easy hot start after driving!
Could it be!?!?!?!?!? LOL

I need to read up on rebuilding distributors as I was not sure what kind of grease or what to grease but it was mostly self explanatory. I just used a small drop of oil on the centrifugal pivot bushings, and a tiny bit of grease on the balls and track they run in under the advance/point plate.
I wasn't sure if you put anything on the contact ring on top of the plate...so I didn't.

I am going to drive it a bunch tomorrow and see if it really could possibly be running awesome or if it was just a fluke! LOL

All in all I think I had about 5 seperate problems I sorted out over this post.
I appreciate all the help and suggestions everyone of you have given...without this site I dont think I would of even attempted to own my dream truck!
Beers to all!!!!!!:beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer:
 
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Drove it around all day today. Good to go!
Hot start issue gone, amp meter weirdness gone, hesitation on accel gone.
New starter, alt, batt, cables, coil. Not sure I absolutely needed all that...but I think I cured about 3 issues out of the deal. So not bad and good peace of mind in the woods.

Should have my JT bumper here tomorrow. Got all my wiring done for the old 8274 I just rebuilt.
Will toss that on tomorrow night. I gotta get some pics up here one of these days. Never really did the whole intro thing. Just jumped right in to asking stupid questions LOL.
 
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