What PSI for aux elec fuel pump stock 2f 40 ?

[John McVicker]

Time to replace my 20 year old aux electric fuel pump. My Napa has 3 to choose from and they vary from 1.5 PSI to 5 to 8 PSI.

I am having fuel delivery issues when wheeling on even mild inclines & now also at freeway speed on hills. On the flats I can do 75 and even 80 mph (really...GPS) so it could be a float adj issue which I will address, but when wheeling & I stall, sometimes the elec. pump will push gas thru to carb & sometines not.

I recently installed a new OEM mech. fuel pump which has helped but not entirely solved the issue which also leads me to think float adj. is the main problem...but just in case I would like to be able to choose the correct PSI.

Thanks, John

Edit: Not completly stock as I have 2 gas tanks, the stock under the pass seat & the 22 gal Man-a-Fre one.

 

[Josie'sLandCruiser]

Hi All:

John, am I correct in guessing that this electric fuel pump is used to transfer fuel from the auxiliary tank to the main fuel tank?

Or, will this electric pump be pumping gas to the carb from the auxiliary tank?

When I was still running an Aisan carb on the 2F in my '40 I used a Purolator electric fuel pump like this with no troubles:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Facet-Purol...pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr

Good luck!

Alan

 

[John McVicker]

Thanks Josie,

Napa has that one which I may get.

Actually I use my aux elec pump AFTER both of my tanks, just before the stock fuel filter & OEM mech punp. Really 'shouldn't' even need to use the elec pump...but my theory is that it's too much to ask of the OEM pump to constantly pump from the rear aux tank unless everything is in perfect working order, ie no restrictions, no inclines etc.

I did some testing yesterday of my elec pump & if my math is correct, it will pump about 6-7 gals per hour. Sounds good, but the on line pumps I was looking at said they pumped anywhere from 25-80 GPH. So I am thinking that for some reason there is too much resistance in line for the mech pump to work at 100 %.

So now, instead of the float being the most likely problem...it may be the restrictions etc of my bad/weak elec pump in the fuel line circut.

Anyone have other thoughts. Fuel starvation when wheeling can be dangerous.

Thanks much, John

 

[SteveH]

You and me both - I have a ConFerr 22 gal and a new stock pump and I installed a 7-8 psi electric pump from eBay to overcome chronic vapor locking. I mounted the pump way down low (height-wise) before the mechanical pump.

I installed a regulator, but I found that I need 6-8 psi to solve my hot-soak shutdown problems. I tried regulating it back to about 4 psi and it didn't help. I hate to feed quite that much pressure to the stock carb, but it seems to be working fine. My next gig may be to remove the mech pump totally, since it's contributing little. This is on a mostly stock '78 FJ40.

I have tried many cheap vibrator pumps (the $30 kind) and none worked. I have used Holley pumps and they are not sealed from dust (to say the least) and do not last. My current pump is a Mr. Gasket or some such brand 'racing' pump I got on eBay for $65. I think this is it: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brand-New-M...Parts_Accessories&hash=item58947c237c&vxp=mtr

So far, it has been bulletproof, but I cross my fingers. Most 'racing' pumps just don't last on a daily driver - the brushes wear out or the housing gets dirt inside.

 

[John McVicker]

Thanks Steve,

I haven't road tested but I just installed a Mr. Gasket part # 12S. Specs say it's 4-7 PSI & puts out at 25GPH. W/little test I think this one puts out at 26-27 GPH. So thats good and may point to my old elec one as at least part of my problem...it was only putting out aprox 6-7 GPH.

But I will have to take this new one back as it leaks fuel at the in-let and I can't get it to stop. After futzzing w/it...2 hours down the tubes ... and I get to do it again.

Steve, I may be wrong but I am going to keep both pumps, including the stock OEM. they are incredibly well built (mine is rebuildable) & I like the redundancy. As indicated in my 1st post, my 2-75 OEM pump was recently replaced and it was the original pump, installed in Japan..w/one rebuild in 1998. Hard to beat that...even if the rebuild 'only' lasted 14 years.

Anyway...off to the parts store.

Thanks, John

 

[mobiltoy]

I installed an electric pump from napa over 10 years ago because I read somewhere that when the mech pump let go it dumped fuel in the oil. I installed a block off plate and put the new elec pump in about the same place. I just looked but the brand is covered up by the mount. I carry extra fuel line and a good mech pump just in case. fj40 jim told me that I need not worry about psi as the orig carb inlet controlled the pressure. If I can find the orig paperwork I will post the specs on the pump as it starts and runs at any speed without a problem. stock 2f, stock tank and fj40 jim desmoged carb.

 

[John McVicker]

Thanks Mtoy,

Interesting to know that info from Jim C.

I thought the proper PSI would be critical, but if he says it's good, that's enough for me. I may upgrade the Mr. Gasket 12 S when I return it tomorrow.

Thanks, John

 

[bsevans]

I run the factory fuel pump and in 34 years it has been replaced once. I also have a 22 gal aux tank. The OEM mechanical pump has no problem with pulling fuel from either tank. I say this given the ability to run over 80 mph on either tank. I will add that when the original fuel pump needed replacement I put a high quality aftermarket unit in and found that my top speed was barely 65 mph and it was replaced with an OEM pump based on that alone.

 

[John McVicker]

Bsevans,

I agree that the OEM pump 'should' be able to keep up w/both/either tanks, but mine doesn't, so it could still be a float adjustment issue.

When I replaced my OEM pump I tested it and it was only pulling 2-3 PSI, FSM said s/b 8-13 PSI (going on memory) so that was clearly an issue that needed to be addressed. The new OEM pump put out a strong 13 PSI & completely solved my fuel starvation issues, until last weekend on my 1st bit of wheeling since the install.

On that trip I was able to drive to the area w/o any problems, 65-70 MPH...started at 4,000 elevation & drove to 7,500 feet...again w/no problems. It was only when wheeling at very low speeds and on inclines that I had starvation, with no fuel in the sight glass. No pumping or turning on the elec pump was filling up the carb. I backed down to level (that was fun) & then was able to get fuel to the carb & restart. On the way back home on hills I experienced starvation from time to time...even tho on the flats and while trying to get speed for the next hill I really did get it up to 80 MPH. But on the hills I was experiencing actual fuel starvation...not just the normal slowing because of a hill.

So, long story short, I as yet don't know why I am experiencing this fuel starvation...but I do know my elec pump is old & weak, so that is what I am fixing 1st. Trying to not open up that carb if I don't have to. It is a Jim C rebuild w/about 70k on it.

Anyone think it's a float adjustment issue ??

Thanks for the input, John

 

[SteveH]

My OEM factory fuel pump works great until the ambient temps hit about 80, or until I park the truck hot and restart within 1 hour. After that, I can drive for 45 seconds and the truck will flat die (usually in a dangerous intersection). This summer, it started dying (on the factory pump) while driving 55 mph on a flat highway on a hot day. I cannot have this happen. The Mr. Gasket pump has worked great. I do realize that if my factory pump craps out, I will fill the crankcase with gasoline and blow the engine due to the electric pump. So be it.

I have carefully rebuilt factory pumps and tried them, and my current factory pump is just a few years old. All have been unable to reliably supply fuel on hot days. I carefully rebuilt my carb this past summer and while the truck runs better, the hot soak issue remains.

My comment to all is 'YMMV' - I only run an elec. pump because I have to. If I eliminate the factory pump and go full electric, I will carry a new spare elec. pump as a backup. I don't trust aftermarket electric pumps as far as I can throw them, really, but they reliably solve my problem.

To quote Jeff Zepp, 'Happy Cruisin'

Steve

 

[John McVicker]

Steve,

When you rebuilt your carb, do you feel good that the float was adjusted correctly ??

No disrespect at all, I am just trying to determine if I need tp open up my carb when my issue may be unrelated to the float.

I practiced adjusting the float on a spare carb & it takes longer to remove & replace the top half of the carb than actualling adjusting the float. Plus more likely to lose one of those small clips while still on the truck. If I have to I will, but trying not to.

Thanks, John

 

[John McVicker]

Here is the latest update for anyone looking for the proper aux elec fuel pump :

I did not have a good experience w/ made in China Mr. Gasket 12 S & instead went w/ made in USA Napa part #610-1050, Posi-Flo made by Facet/Purolator. YMMV.

Both pumps look & seem almost identical, except for where they were made. Their specs are also the same...4-7 PSI & 25 GPH. My 1st Mr. Gasket leaked fuel at the inlet, the 2nd Mr. Gasket also leaked at the inlet.

In the driveway the Napa pump works fine, no leaks & the sight glass is at the 1/2 mark. Don't know if I have solved my fuel starvation while wheeling yet, may go wheeling this weekend & will let you know if not.

Thanks, John

 

[FJ40Jim]

the OEM pump 'should' be able to keep up w/both/either tanks, but mine doesn't, so it could still be a float adjustment issue.

When I replaced my OEM pump I tested it and it was only pulling 2-3 PSI, FSM said s/b 8-13 PSI (going on memory) so that was clearly an issue that needed to be addressed. The new OEM pump put out a strong 13 PSI & completely solved my fuel starvation issues, until last weekend on my 1st bit of wheeling since the install.

On that trip I was able to drive to the area w/o any problems, 65-70 MPH...started at 4,000 elevation & drove to 7,500 feet...again w/no problems. It was only when wheeling at very low speeds and on inclines that I had starvation, with no fuel in the sight glass. No pumping or turning on the elec pump was filling up the carb. I backed down to level (that was fun) & then was able to get fuel to the carb & restart. On the way back home on hills I experienced starvation from time to time...even tho on the flats and while trying to get speed for the next hill I really did get it up to 80 MPH. But on the hills I was experiencing actual fuel starvation...not just the normal slowing because of a hill.

So, long story short, I as yet don't know why I am experiencing this fuel starvation.

Anyone think it's a float adjustment issue ??

John,
As you have determined, this is not a float adjustment problem. The problem is the gas is boiling in the fuel line. In your area, you are getting RFG that boils at 90*F at sea level. Apply suction to the fuel in the line and the BP goes to 50*F. So the pump just pulls the fuel apart in the line. Or go up in altitude and the BP drops because of the lower pressure.

I am having the same problem on my DD. I'm hoping the genuine Toyota low pressure in-tank pump will fix the problem. First I hafta figger out how to install it into a Cruiser tank that never had an intank pump. They were used in 75-79 minitruck & celicas that had similar fuel feed issue.

Ultimately, as the EPA demands lower BP, easily vaporized fuel, all vintage carbureted vehicles will end up with pusher pumps hung underneath the fuel tank.

 

[John McVicker]

Jim C,

Interesting comments. Sounds like this is a problem that is not unique just to me. Glad it's not a float problem, but I still need to fix it. Wheeling, inclines & fuel starvation is not a good combo. Most of the folks I wheel with have Jeeps, many are old and are carb'd, yet I am the only one w/this issue. Embarassing.

So what's a guy to do in my sititution ?? When you say 'pusher pump hung underneath the fuel tank', will my set up likely solve my problem. Here is what I am running :

1) Stock 2f with your '86 ish carb & recurved large dizzy.
2) 2 tanks, Man-a Fre in the rear & OEM under pass seat.
3) Each tank runs direct to the carb w/elec switching valve.
4) Glass filter after each tank, and another just b/4 the elec pump & the OEM filter just b/4 the mech fuel pump.
5) Brand new OEM mech & brand new elec pump.
6) Elec pump is located on the pass frame rail, right at the T-case.

Could the heat from the T-case cause the elec fuel pump to not operate as it should ? Slow speeds, T-case gets hot w/air being trapped by the skid plate. I often hear what I 'think' is fuel boiling. Don't know, just thinking out loud.

In years past when I experienced fuel starvation, I could instantly solve my problem by doing 2 things: switch to the main tank while turning on the elec pump. Instant relief in one or two seconds. However, this last time while stalled on the incline...using using both the mech & elec pumps at the same time would not get fuel to the carb... until I backed down to level ground.

Thanks, John

 

[Josie'sLandCruiser]

Hi All:

John, are you really experiencing fuel starvation, or just classic carburetor issues on an incline?

Regards,

Alan

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In years past when I experienced fuel starvation, I could instantly solve my problem by doing 2 things: switch to the main tank while turning on the elec pump. Instant relief in one or two seconds. However, this last time while stalled on the incline...using using both the mech & elec pumps at the same time would not get fuel to the carb... until I backed down to level ground.

 

[John McVicker]

Josie,

Good question & I don't really know the answer.

About all I do know is that when it happens, the sight glass is completely empty & the only way to restart is to back down to level ground. Haven't wheeled since the new elec pump install...so maybe that will solve the problem.

If Jim C doesn't think it's a float adj issue...well then I don't either. I've experienced this issue for maybe 3 years, but until recently it would only happen once in a blue moon. Now it's been the last 2 times out, and the last time was after installing a new OEM pump. And I agree with bsevans that the OEM pump alone 'should' be able to keep up w/either or both tanks.

I am now kinda leaning towards the fuel pump area getting too hot. That and the EPA type fuel we are forced to buy now...maybe a bad combo.

Anyone share my hi temp theory causing this issue ? I am thinking of insulating the fuel pump/pumps area.

Thanks, John

 

[John McVicker]

Thought I would report back that after 3 + months my fuel starvetion issue is SOLVED...yeah !

The final solve was easy & cheap. I will try to describe my fix but as we know, each vehicle is different...different plumbing, one tank, two tanks, smoged,desmoged etc. This may help your sitituation & may not. I will try to be brief in my description.

My issue was fuel starvation...not vapor lock. Wheeling on inclines would give no fuel to the carb. After each fix I thought I had solved the issue. And after each fix, driving at speed to the wheeling area was fine. But it always resurfaced once wheeling and always on inclines.

I have now been out twice since the fix, each time for all day wheeling, and in more challanging terrian than what would knock me out before the final fix.. So I feel comfortable that it's fixed.

1) Replaced a 2 ft rubber fuel line from tank to the fuel pump. This hose was fairly new (maybe 2 1/2 yrs) & looked fine, so maybe I did not give it the attention I should have. Another set of eyes noticed 2 or 3 really, really small droplets of gas on it. Not enough to really see and not enough to smell. But enough to allow air in the line.
2) Also tightened up the ends of my 2 glass in line fuel filters, ( one for each tank). The ends of each filter come apart in order to clean them. They weren't very loose...but in this case 'hand tight' was not good enough. More air.


I had no fuel getting to the carb, the fuel pump tested weak. So that must be the problem, right ? And then I go along to the next thing...and the next.


So maybe I had a perfect storm of a bunch of small issues & I finally addressed the last straw that got it to working again. But this 'last' fix seems to have worked.

Sorry for being so long, but hope this helps someone else w/similar issue.

John

 

[tgordner420]

Time to replace my 20 year old aux electric fuel pump. My Napa has 3 to choose from and they vary from 1.5 PSI to 5 to 8 PSI.

I am having fuel delivery issues when wheeling on even mild inclines & now also at freeway speed on hills. On the flats I can do 75 and even 80 mph (really...GPS) so it could be a float adj issue which I will address, but when wheeling & I stall, sometimes the elec. pump will push gas thru to carb & sometines not.

I recently installed a new OEM mech. fuel pump which has helped but not entirely solved the issue which also leads me to think float adj. is the main problem...but just in case I would like to be able to choose the correct PSI.

Thanks, John

Edit: Not completly stock as I have 2 gas tanks, the stock under the pass seat & the 22 gal Man-a-Fre one.

What psi on a fuel pump did you go with I am going to change mine to a electric one the manual one stars to leaking

 

[John McVicker]

@tgordner420 I do not really remember…that was back in 2012.


I have both the oem mechanical pump and the elec pump. Mainly use the electric pump when I am using the rear tank…or when wheeling steep inclines…just as a safety precaution.

My suggestion would be to keep your mechanical pump. I believe they are still available from Toyota. Maybe use both like I do…fix the leak tho.