What have you done to your 200 Series this week? (27 Viewers)

[Julian73]

I'm curious where you get your numbers. In 2017, US Land Cruiser Sales were 6500 units. I won't divulge my source, but I trust it Granted, that's not high, but it didn't cut in half, it stayed about the same is my understanding. If you have a dealer sourced number, it doesn't include fleet sales, Gulf States or gov.

It's really an issue of brand confusion in the US. Total unit sales globally aren't reported in the US, but sales of the Land Cruiser aren't hurting internationally. The US consumer is unique and the SUV market in the US is probably the most competitive anywhere. Agree that the US consumer heads into a showroom and after about 65k, they've decided they want a Lexus, based on the notion that the quality and luxury are dramatically different between the two brands. We both know that's not really true, it's more of a finish and styling issue when it comes to purchase. And the two plant processes (Lexus vs LC) aren't dramatically different, thus the opportunity cost of the plant decision to manufacture a LC vs a Lexus is not as cost prohibitive as say comparing the 4runner to a Prius. So the decision was based on sales cost(and loss) to move and support vehicles from the Aichi plant .

It's been a few y ears, but the decision makers in Japan are trying to clean house of the dog brands like Yaris. The decision to not sell Land Cruiser in the US isn't necessarily set in stone. If, for whatever reason, US consumers decide they want more utility in the SUV lineup, it can return.

Does this picture jog any memories?

View attachment 2836875

GCBC

Automotive Sales Data and Statistics

www.goodcarbadcar.net

 

[Julian73]

exactly.

I'm like anyone else, I was curious about the perceived strength of the US 'brand' of Land Cruiser, but that's not as relevant as we might like to think. The strength is really the production schedule from the Aichi production plant and part sales. And that's it. So long as that plant is running, someone is buying and Toyota is shipping it. It's misleading to suggest that Toyota is saving much by not selling Land Cruiser in the US, sales weren't high and they werent sourced in the US. A plant shutdown is a far more painful cost. It's tough for Toyota to differentiate the US consumer in larger vehicle sales, as it is with any brand. Agree that the Sequoia eats up tons of market share. But Toyota doesn't have it easy selling large vehicles in the US with SUV's like the Tahoe and Ford F-Series trucks.

If Toyota ever wants to bring back the Land Cruiser, the cost to product would be a unit and marginal cost of production issue, meaning it would be minimal.. Sales and marketing is another story. That would be a bigger hit, but it can happen.

Around the World With 5,500 Cars (Published 2012)

Many Toyota models sold in the Eastern United States arrive packed aboard the Andromeda Leader. When the ship arrives in ports like Newark, the cars are offloaded in an intricate ballet.

www.nytimes.com

While true that the incremental production cost is small and thus should be profitable you may be underestimating the step cost of compliance to US safety and emissions regulations, again the physical modification cost can easily be accommodated by the typical consumer, however the testing and development costs are in the millions and becomes a big number when spread over a small number of vehicles. I know this from being a regular customers of a niche British sports car manufacturer. The cost pass on for a minor bumper change, that required new crash testing is far higher than the price of a bumper.

 

[TheComedian]

Just a word of caution. Classic IBS systems worked great in the era prior to smart alternators. They don't really work as well for the 200-series, where the alternator doesn't produce excess voltage to charge dual batts. You'll really need a DC-DC charger for these types of setups. And unless you really know what your doing, have a good chance at reducing the reliability of the battery/electrical system.

And with a DC-DC Charger you can usw different type of batterys

 

[TheComedian]

While true that the incremental production cost is small and thus should be profitable you may be underestimating the step cost of compliance to US safety and emissions regulations, again the physical modification cost can easily be accommodated by the typical consumer, however the testing and development costs are in the millions and becomes a big number when spread over a small number of vehicles. I know this from being a regular customers of a niche British sports car manufacturer. The cost pass on for a minor bumper change, that required new crash testing is far higher than the price of a bumper.

And you also have to consider that Toyota then also has to train its mechanics accordingly, keep any special tools on hand, stock the spare parts in the USA, etc. Everything.

 

[El Cid]

GCBC

Automotive Sales Data and Statistics

www.goodcarbadcar.net

Ah ok, this explains the difference. This data isn't 'wrong' per se, but it's strictly from the dealers. So it won't include sales from Toyota(TMNA) via fleet sales or sales from corporate to certain distributors like Gulf States Toyota. Either way, sort of pointless, we both agree sales are not high.

The 'problem' of the Land Cruiser is that it sells well globally but not in the US. So as I mentioned, the loss in the US is because profit made from LC US sales don't justify the distribution, marketing costs to move in the US. But I'm optimistic they'll eventually see that opportunity and rethink the decision. Not that I think they'll absolutely bring it back, but that they'll look at their line up a bit deeper and see what they can introduce.

But the point about using it as a brand marker is very true IMO. The philosophy of the top line Toyota execs in the US is really, really slow in terms of understanding US consumers. They rely almost entirely on data like you and I are discussing but don't understand the importance of off road communities that are niche in the US.
It wasn't until about 2017/2018 that Toyota finally started looking deeper into the sales at dealerships(using the software program Alteryx) like you've shared and asking questions like, "Why does this model 4Runner sell in Georgia, but this model sells in California, etc." Thus the feedback loop of sales data from ANY source is just now starting to come around as a decision tool.

Anything can happen...but I think the market wants something rugged, off-road, etc. As evidenced by the fact we're all here on this site wishing, hoping, etc. haha

 

[El Cid]

While true that the incremental production cost is small and thus should be profitable you may be underestimating the step cost of compliance to US safety and emissions regulations, again the physical modification cost can easily be accommodated by the typical consumer, however the testing and development costs are in the millions and becomes a big number when spread over a small number of vehicles. I know this from being a regular customers of a niche British sports car manufacturer. The cost pass on for a minor bumper change, that required new crash testing is far higher than the price of a bumper.

The break even number in units is weirdly easy to figure out IF you're only using direct plant costs at Toyota, but the problem is, and this is ALL models, applying overhead and corporate costs to every product line and unit. It takes time, and it's essentially just an estimate.
Many of the 'costs' for the LC are already sunk so to speak, so they aren't as relevant today as they were, say a decade ago. But you're right as it regards.

1. any upgrade or modification
2. emissions.

Parts costs have largely been absorbed by the global market and the sales of parts are a revenue, not cost center. They add a 13% markup to parts leaving the Kentucky/ohio/Ontario parts centers. In truth, they really make a product so that they can make/sell parts as recurring revenue. One of Toyota's problems is that they make a product so reliable, consumers keep it for years on end and don't buy another vehicle and they lose out! What a great problem for us, right?
We all agree it wasn't a boom product, but it wasn't losing a ton(in the US)either. Toyota is very conservative, they'll cut any time they can kill a loss.

But like I said, the losses from the Scion brand were far more costly. The profit margin for the Lexus SUV is so high that if they want continued, long-term profits in the US market, they'll have to start from that product and work backwards. Thus my bet that they'll re evaluate this decision in 24-36 months.

 

[NoClue]

That is the first twin compressor mount I've seen installed on the passenger side. Are you pleased with the mount and the installation?

Greetings. It's from sdhq. I prefer this mount over the slee mount that's placed on the driver side (us) in front of the brake hydropump. With the spod there, it's already pretty "busy" in that area. The mount also locates the air fitting away from the pumps body. I like it !

 

[Cincinnatus]

Installed color-matched Rhino 4x4 bumper & skids, Comeup Seal Slim 12.5rs winch, Factor 55 Flatlink, and black sport grille.

View attachment 2825534
View attachment 2825535

For the winch, everything fit pretty well except I needed to rotate the horn right above the control box slightly so I can access the controller's plug on top.

View attachment 2825536

I replaced the fog light casings' zinc-plated screws with black stainless screws.

View attachment 2825546

I also applied a small section of black vinyl wrap to the bottom inside portion of the bumper because I think it otherwise looks funny with the white extending that far on the bottom.

View attachment 2825537

That looks fantastic

 

[VooDoo2]

Just a word of caution. Classic IBS systems worked great in the era prior to smart alternators. They don't really work as well for the 200-series, where the alternator doesn't produce excess voltage to charge dual batts. You'll really need a DC-DC charger for these types of setups. And unless you really know what your doing, have a good chance at reducing the reliability of the battery/electrical system.

They arent smart alternators. They are temperature sensing. You can use a diode fuse in the ALT-S fuse location to boost the voltage up by 0.6v and zero issues. We make a 200 amp alternator with a sealed, brushless and watercooled design that will run between 14v and 14.v and charges lithiums directly. No DC-DC required, charging at 200a no issues, 1300cca each and will winch and run 3000w invertors so induction cooktops, Coffee machines, pie ovens, Air Fryiers etc is normal

 

[TheLCProject]

They arent smart alternators. They are temperature sensing. You can use a diode fuse in the ALT-S fuse location to boost the voltage up by 0.6v and zero issues. We make a 200 amp alternator with a sealed, brushless and watercooled design that will run between 14v and 14.v and charges lithiums directly. No DC-DC required, charging at 200a no issues, 1300cca each and will winch and run 3000w invertors so induction cooktops, Coffee machines, pie ovens, Air Fryiers etc is normal

View attachment 2837451

View attachment 2837452

View attachment 2837453

View attachment 2837455

View attachment 2837456

What temperatures can these lithiums handle, both on the high and low side?

Do they have internal charging cutoffs for temperatures that are too low?

 

[VooDoo2]

What temperatures can these lithiums handle, both on the high and low side?

Do they have internal charging cutoffs for temperatures that are too low?

-20 to +80c rated with BMS cutout at 110c (if the car is that hot you have bigger issues)
Wont charge below 0c to protect cells, once the battery hits 1c the charging can start. Both High and low protection, Bluetooth, SOC, Time remaining etc See APP Screenshot.

Oh and we also have a built in 80/20 MPPT Solar controller built in. In the screenshot we have a 440w panel attached

This video shows the car off (Fridge running, pulling 7.5a)
then engine cranking (screen turns off)
Idle charge current
driving off.

Batteries were around 65%

 

[teejnut]

They arent smart alternators. They are temperature sensing. You can use a diode fuse in the ALT-S fuse location to boost the voltage up by 0.6v and zero issues. We make a 200 amp alternator with a sealed, brushless and watercooled design that will run between 14v and 14.v and charges lithiums directly. No DC-DC required, charging at 200a no issues, 1300cca each and will winch and run 3000w invertors so induction cooktops, Coffee machines, pie ovens, Air Fryiers etc is normal

View attachment 2837451

View attachment 2837452

View attachment 2837453

View attachment 2837455

View attachment 2837456

Are those cooling lines for the sealed alternator? T's into the engine coolant?

 

[TeCKis300]

They arent smart alternators. They are temperature sensing. You can use a diode fuse in the ALT-S fuse location to boost the voltage up by 0.6v and zero issues. We make a 200 amp alternator with a sealed, brushless and watercooled design that will run between 14v and 14.v and charges lithiums directly. No DC-DC required, charging at 200a no issues, 1300cca each and will winch and run 3000w invertors so induction cooktops, Coffee machines, pie ovens, Air Fryiers etc is normal

View attachment 2837451

View attachment 2837452

View attachment 2837453

View attachment 2837455

View attachment 2837456

You're right if you want to be more specific. Just the same, it's not the old school alternator where an IBS setup alone can work. There's as many different charging strategies as there is battery setups and configurations. The diode setup is just another. Would be worthwhile to understand the trades as it's not without compromise, but could be a good strategy for the right rig.

 

[prwillard2]

Installed the dissent sliders. Never want to do this again. Do yourself a favor and buy a right angle drill prior to attempting the install.

 

[TheComedian]

Today I have tried myself a little in foiling. You should not go closer than a meter but for the first time I am so far satisfied with myself at least a little.
I have used Oracal 751

I have oriented myself for it a little on the old Toyota "Tricolor“

Ps.: the strips are at the moment only on this side. I'll leave it like that and if I still like it after two weeks I'll do the other side or just then when I mount my roof rack because the film goes exactly in the area of the screw connection at the back.

 

[TheGrrrrr]

For anyone who (like me) has been waiting months for Nitro gears to be in stock, Revolution Gears has theirs in stock, but they don't have the master install kits. Cruiser Outfitters had the master install kits, but no gears. I ordered the gears and install kits on Wednesday afternoon and received both Saturday. Nice change of pace, compared to everything else.

 

[teejnut]

Installed the Slee group 31 tray with a Deka group 31 battery. While the battery was out swapped all the turn signals with Morimoto led bulbs, SmartTap signal relay, led reverse bulbs, led high beams, and Osram Night Breaker for the low beams. Saw a nice improvement with the new hid bulbs!

 

[Julian73]

Second row USB ports

 

[DesmoPilot]

Second row USB ports

View attachment 2839770

View attachment 2839773

Looks great!

Where did you run power from?

 

[Julian73]

Looks great!

Where did you run power from?

Power is via a 4g run down RHS sills to rear quarter, fuse box (BS 5046 8-circuit)(had the 4 fuse unit but now have five circuits so upgraded) in jack compartment splits it to LH and RH side sockets and USB in cargo bay plus a 14g run back fwd to console and a 14g terminated power line for potential future use (house lighting to an RTT?). Temporary tap is from Starter Battery, eventually will tap from Aux battery to be fitted in Pass side of Eng Compartment, passing through a 75 amp relay located on inner fender near firewall controlled by SP-9100. RHS power leads front to back are; 4g for above circuits, 8g Solar feed back to BCDC (roof panels pending),10g direct feed to frog/freezer, 14g RHS Roof Scene lights, 14g Rear Roof Flood lights, while roof runs are pending receipt of a new rack they are both controlled by SP-9100. Drivers side wire runs tbd, but will include 14g LHS Roof Scene, 14g Rear Fog Light Power feed, and 14g spare feed to rear all SP-9100 controlled plus a 10g spare feed.