WELDERS....what does it take to weld a MT family kit?

[1973Guppie]

Was not happy with the Hobart we had here at work. Welding wasn't bad but when the feed motor for the wire quit the part was going to be as expensive as a new welder. we went with the Millermatic 175 220v. What a sweet machine! Several years of work and still running like new.

x2, millermatic are just great machines....

 

[Cuerno Largo]

I have a lincoln 175. My father got the miller 211 autoset several years later based off my input. I hope I inherit his one day. Much better machine.

I taught myself on my grandfather's "tombstone" Lincoln arc welder. Learned some stuff off youtube. Never took a formal class. Had some welders watch me and critique me.

I weld all kinds of s*** on my ranch.

I even welded a bridge (with my miller bobcat) across my creek that I take my family over in the ranger. I took my tractor with a loaded trailer as well. Solid. Probably lucky rather than skill. It was an old car hauler that I extended. Flex over thirty feet with some weight on it will make your butt pucker, but it has held fine.

However, if I were do do a cage for my vehicle, I would pay a pro. I know I could do it within 99% comfort, but I want 110% with the forces involved on the highway and offroad.

Get a Miller anyway and see if you can find a welder to help you learn. Give him a little beer or cash. Win-win.

 

[Cruiser Corps]

FWIW I recently burned together a family 'cage w/frame ties. I used a Lincoln 175 HD 220V pushing .035 wire. I think it's a 30% duty cycle, and I never had it shut me down.

We've also got a harbor freight 40A plasma cutter. I used that, some homemade fishmouth templates, a calibrated eyeball, and a steady hand to notch all the tubing. Angle grinder with a flap disc cleaned up the cuts.

We picked up the welder very lightly used (read: brand new) off craigslist for $450. It is plenty of welder for this 'cage, and makes some nice, pretty welds.

My advice if you tackle it yourself, take your time, measure twice, and use ratchet straps to help hold your tubing together when tacking. Don't finish weld anything until it's completely tacked together. When finish welding, don't get in a hurry. Move around the 'cage. It will warp if you stay in one area too long. You could probably bend it back if it does warp, but it's easier to just take a little more time, move around, and wait for things to cool off.

MT has great drawings and instructions with pictures on their site, as well. I referred to these often during my build, as it was my first time doing one.



-Josh

 

[Mopdog]

There is always the issue of liability as well. If there is ever a serious injury accident the question of who welded the cage could come back up. Probably not the deciding factor by any means but in this overly litigated world we live in it is something to consider.

 

[myquestoyota]

There is always the issue of liability as well. If there is ever a serious injury accident the question of who welded the cage could come back up. Probably not the deciding factor by any means but in this overly litigated world we live in it is something to consider.

Whatever a professional shop charges will have this built in. Half for the welder and half for the insurance company.

 

[sgirt]

I did all the fitting and tack welding on MT family cage with my Clarke brand welder. I had a welding shop do the final welds on my cage. I think it was about $90. I trusted their welds over mine for safety.

 

[chicago]

I did my cage. MT family cage, Hobart 220v, notched w/ a grinder and pipe master. I'm self taught. I started w/ lincolin 135, 110v unit. Practiced every night for about 3 mos. then did my first SOA w/ it including a traction bar set up.
I tell you this to encourage you to get a welder and learn how to do it yourself!!! This skill will save you THOUSANDS!! You will no longer be limited to finding and paying for parts, brackets and such that you can make and weld yourself!!
That being said, I wouldn't just DIVE head long into a cage without practice.
MIG is very easy to learn.
Consider the STOCK 40 roll cage and then consider how protected you are running that in comparison to a MT cage w/ decent welds.
I really don't see why a good 110v welder wouldn't be adequate for 120 wall tubing?? I'd do it and be confident w/ it w/ some practice. Though, you'd always be better off getting 220v for ALL stuff you'll encounter for cruiser builds.

Just my .02

 

[chicago]

BTW... I LOVE my Hobart.

Got it from northern tool for like 6-700 bucks.

 

[Anvil]

X2 for the Hobart. For the money, I don't believe you can beat a Hobart Ironman 230, which is made by Miller.

I've owned a metal fabrication business (www.irontonforge.com) for well over 20 years, and have bought several Miller 250's, 251's, and a couple of Miller 252's. They were all great machines, but do you really need a digital readout? I doubt it. I fine tune a welder far more by using hearing than I do numbers. You will be able to see and hear when the setting is correct.

Also, the Hobart 230 now incorporates fan on demand.

Just my 2 cents... Good luck!

 

[alex e]

Don't feed trolls Ken. Post some new pics of your sled!

 

[alex e]

Millermatic 212.....was the recommendation from dad in law...

 

[toomanytoyzz]

My advice for whichever 220V machine you decide on make sure it has infinite dial settings on the arc dial. My Lincoln SP170T doesn't, but my SP100 does and it makes getting those "in between" settings possible.

 

[AHorseThief]

no way you are getting full penetration on 1/4 thick unless you are bevelling the **** out of it and making lots and lots of passes, which is just not ideal.

Flux core FTW. If you are worried about penetration, it's the only way to fly.

 

[chicago]

Flux core FTW. If you are worried about penetration, it's the only way to fly.

YEUP!!! ^^^^^^^
its ALL I use.

 

[vfrer]

I did my cage with a 110 Lincoln and flux core. Notched everything by hand, did bevels and multiple passes. It has passed a downhill flop test that put the b pillar directly onto rock and was hard enough to knock the bed rail in 4-6 inches... the cage didn't move, put some nice gouges in the tube though. It can be done and I feel safe with it. I did eventually go and buy an older Millermatic 200 (1980) for the bigger projects but the 110 gets more general use (old millermatic is highly recommended!).

 

[alex e]

Local community college offers an 11 week Fundamentals O' Welding for 2000$, covers The basics, 0730-1400. Could be fun and its less than 10 min away.

 

[burnttoastburgos]

flux core? c'mon really......that would be for the certified JB welder.

I dont know what your budget is but for a little over a grand, you can sit on a new Miller 211, perfect for ALL welding projects on your Cruiser. Use the gas in any mig ....90/10 mix, super clean,

Cut a few pieces and play around with your settings and in one night, you would have the confidence to complete your cage.

REMEMBER: bevel "ALL" your cuts and notches, wire wheel the mill scale and run your pass in small circles.
The cleaner the prep, the better the results.

 

[burnttoastburgos]

Consider the STOCK 40 roll cage and then consider how protected you are running that in comparison to a MT cage w/ decent welds.
I really don't see why a good 110v welder wouldn't be adequate for 120 wall tubing?? I'd do it and be confident w/ it w/ some practice. Though, you'd always be better off getting 220v for ALL stuff you'll encounter for cruiser builds.

Just my .02

absolutely....

 

[61n72cruisers]

The old Victor "cracker box" type stick welders are excellent and WILL do a great job! They have all of the heat ranges you will ever need and they are cheap.
MIG welders are wonderful, except that you cannot weld if there is even the slightest breeze (as in the outdoors) because the argon gets blown away. We can only use the 2 that I have in the shop with all doors closed.
Welding has everything to do with using the proper rod, and selecting the correct heat range.
If you use a Mig, buy good quality wire from a welding shop and NOT from harbor freight.
For versatility, you might consider a small gasoline powered Miller, etc stick welder that you can also take to the field. I bought one for $200 at a pawn shop about 25 years ago and it's never failed me. It's an AC only machine so I have to use AC 7018 or 6011 rods with it.
If the steel you're welding is dirty, rusty, etc, use a 1/8", or smaller 6011 rod. If all is clean (no rust, dirt, oil, etc) use a 7018 rod. The 6011 is the easiest to use, has 60,000 lbs tensile strength and makes a decent looking weld once it's wire brushed with an angle grinder. The 7018 is harder to use, has 70,000 lbs tensile strength and makes a beautiful looking weld and if done properly the flux will literally fall, or "peel" off. Be wary of pitting, esp with the 7018; if it pits, the weld must be completely ground out as you cannot weld over a pit using 7018 rod.
I'd say buy one and practice and you'll be very very glad you did - It's an invaluable tool. I'm in Abilene and if you're close, I'll be glad to help.

 

[duffontap]

flux core? c'mon really......that would be for the certified JB welder.

As a certified JB welder, I take offense at that.

Actually, I don't use JB, but I do my welding with flux core. Reputable welding sites, like millerwelds . com say the process is more tolerant of imperfect/dirty metal, and provides better penetration on thicker metal. I also do most of my welding out in my driveway, and it's always windy here.