I agree, go straight to the crank shop or are there any other shops around that specialize in 2F work? Maybe Red Line?
Builds Welcome home Matilda - faded like your favorite pair of jeans
- Thread starter CruiserTrash
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I agree, go straight to the crank shop or are there any other shops around that specialize in 2F work? Maybe Red Line?
- Thread starter
- #362
There's one other machine shop that Cruisers and Company is training on Cruiser engine work, but mostly 1FZs. That's who finally got my cam bearings right. But they also farm out the crank work to the same place the previous shop does. There's only one shop in town who can work on cranks, everyone uses them. Last time I pinged Redline about a machine shop they weren't willing to give me that info.
batthewmrown
SILVER Star
Call up to CTS Auto in Conifer and talk to Joe. See who he recommends in the area.
- Thread starter
- #364
Apparently the only shop on the front range that can machine cranks is Mile High Crankshaft. Every other shop sends their work there.
Also, didn't CTS close a few years ago?
Maybe it has been too long, but I had a crank for an MGB repaired by a shop on the Northside of Denver back in 2017. I needed the thrust surfaces welded and I was told that they were the only place in the area to do it. The crank worked fine for me, although I don't recall what the plastigauge told me. I didn't run it very long before I sold the car. Doing some sleuthing, I think the place I took it is called Western Engine Supply.
I fortunately have no current need for a machine shop, but I am curious to know which shops are known to be good and bad in the area.
I fortunately have no current need for a machine shop, but I am curious to know which shops are known to be good and bad in the area.
batthewmrown
SILVER Star
Oh, I don't know, haha. Maybe.
What an ordeal. It’s seems more common than not tho. I haven’t got to the point of measuring and checking my block and head that were machined yet, but the previous engine I rebuilt (using a different shop) was a similar nightmare to what you’re experiencing now. So I feel ya man.
I never had these issues with machine shops in the 80s and 90s. Seems like it’s a product of this throwaway mentality that’s crept into our culture, but
I never had these issues with machine shops in the 80s and 90s. Seems like it’s a product of this throwaway mentality that’s crept into our culture, but
- Thread starter
- #368
Update 1/3 - motor rebuild:
Stopped by the only crankshaft shop in Denver, who the bad machine shop farmed that work out to. They most definitely did the work on mine - the old guy looked at it for about 3 seconds and said “yep, I remember that one last year”.
I looked around and wondered how in the world he remembered my crank …
That was one pile of cranks out of probably five or six. Must have a good memory. Anyway, he said often the reference book isn’t accurate on undersized bearings having oversized thrust and they get a lot of go-backs from that. The implication was poor communication from the machine shop to him on exactly what needed to be done. So he’s taking care of that for FREE. I didn’t even push, he offered.
Then we talked main bearing clearances. The FSM has a range, referred to as “STD”, of .020-.044, and a “limit” of .100. I figured the limit was a number for checking a tired old motor and the range was for putting together a new motor. My clearances are .049 up to .060.
Next he looked in his book and found it only gives a range from .020 to .100. It doesn’t differentiate between a “STD” range and an upper limit. It’s one big range that encompasses both. His feeling was my current oil clearances will have better flow and maybe 2-5psi less pressure than the “STD” suggested in the FSM. The only person I can think of who would probably be geeky enough to parse that out or have strong feelings on the subject might be @OGBeno, but if anyone else has thoughts let me know.
As it stands now, the crank shop is going to adjust the thrust and I’m going to run with the crank as is.
Stopped by the only crankshaft shop in Denver, who the bad machine shop farmed that work out to. They most definitely did the work on mine - the old guy looked at it for about 3 seconds and said “yep, I remember that one last year”.
I looked around and wondered how in the world he remembered my crank …
That was one pile of cranks out of probably five or six. Must have a good memory. Anyway, he said often the reference book isn’t accurate on undersized bearings having oversized thrust and they get a lot of go-backs from that. The implication was poor communication from the machine shop to him on exactly what needed to be done. So he’s taking care of that for FREE. I didn’t even push, he offered.
Then we talked main bearing clearances. The FSM has a range, referred to as “STD”, of .020-.044, and a “limit” of .100. I figured the limit was a number for checking a tired old motor and the range was for putting together a new motor. My clearances are .049 up to .060.
Next he looked in his book and found it only gives a range from .020 to .100. It doesn’t differentiate between a “STD” range and an upper limit. It’s one big range that encompasses both. His feeling was my current oil clearances will have better flow and maybe 2-5psi less pressure than the “STD” suggested in the FSM. The only person I can think of who would probably be geeky enough to parse that out or have strong feelings on the subject might be @OGBeno, but if anyone else has thoughts let me know.
As it stands now, the crank shop is going to adjust the thrust and I’m going to run with the crank as is.
- Thread starter
- #369
Update 2/3:
A while back my radiator sprang a leak where a tube meets the upper tank, so I got a used CSF from @Rockymtnreaper when he LS swapped. Tucker saved my bacon on that, getting me up and running in a couple days. Heck, it’s still in the truck today.
Over time I realized the CSF has one flaw - it doesn’t like long highway climbs. It’ll get up to around 215-220. It holds there, but boy does it make me nervous. No shade Tucker! This thing has definitely gotten me
through for a good while now.
Dropped off my old Toyota radiator at a repair shop and they’ve turned it around in three days - I’ll swing by and get it tomorrow. I’m hoping one bad tube doesn’t mean the rest are going soon. But I’ll
Chance it to drive up I-70 at 195*. I also had my 40 radiator tested … way bad. The guy said it looked like it froze, cracks everywhere. Oh well.
Update 3/3, 3F business:
@crtx picked up the 3F I bought today. Homies helping homies with dumb decisions. Chris being an engine scientist , he of course did a quick dissection when he got it home. As stated the head is visibly cracked.
Sad. The manifolds, however, are beautiful. He said they might have been ceramic coated, and the hardware obviously got zinc plated.
The mating surface looks pretty ok except one pair of exhaust runners.
Chris says it needs machined. We’ll see how I feel when they arrive, but I’m thinking a razor knife, 400 grit, scotch brite pad, and a Remflex gasket with some copper high temp sealer. We’ll see how it shakes out.
Haven’t decided if these are going straight on the new motor or not. My current carb is known good and doesn’t fit in the 3F intake, so I’d be taking a chance on the 3F carb working right out of the box. Or I could make an adapter plate. I’ll probably play it safe and break the new motor in first.
A while back my radiator sprang a leak where a tube meets the upper tank, so I got a used CSF from @Rockymtnreaper when he LS swapped. Tucker saved my bacon on that, getting me up and running in a couple days. Heck, it’s still in the truck today.
Over time I realized the CSF has one flaw - it doesn’t like long highway climbs. It’ll get up to around 215-220. It holds there, but boy does it make me nervous. No shade Tucker! This thing has definitely gotten me
through for a good while now.
Dropped off my old Toyota radiator at a repair shop and they’ve turned it around in three days - I’ll swing by and get it tomorrow. I’m hoping one bad tube doesn’t mean the rest are going soon. But I’ll
Chance it to drive up I-70 at 195*. I also had my 40 radiator tested … way bad. The guy said it looked like it froze, cracks everywhere. Oh well.
Update 3/3, 3F business:
@crtx picked up the 3F I bought today. Homies helping homies with dumb decisions. Chris being an engine scientist , he of course did a quick dissection when he got it home. As stated the head is visibly cracked.
Sad. The manifolds, however, are beautiful. He said they might have been ceramic coated, and the hardware obviously got zinc plated.
The mating surface looks pretty ok except one pair of exhaust runners.
Chris says it needs machined. We’ll see how I feel when they arrive, but I’m thinking a razor knife, 400 grit, scotch brite pad, and a Remflex gasket with some copper high temp sealer. We’ll see how it shakes out.
Haven’t decided if these are going straight on the new motor or not. My current carb is known good and doesn’t fit in the 3F intake, so I’d be taking a chance on the 3F carb working right out of the box. Or I could make an adapter plate. I’ll probably play it safe and break the new motor in first.
- Thread starter
- #370
Didn’t realize until I got the radiator home that they spray bombed the entire thing with a rattle can of black. The fins too. That can’t be good for heat transfer.
Internet forum “wisdom” seems to be oven cleaner and a garbage bag. Let it soak for an hour, hose it off. What’s with the complete inability for any shop to just do a job correctly? Is this a me problem??
Internet forum “wisdom” seems to be oven cleaner and a garbage bag. Let it soak for an hour, hose it off. What’s with the complete inability for any shop to just do a job correctly? Is this a me problem??
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FJBen
SILVER Star
Standard practice for most mom/pop shops is to rattlecan black. Mine “new” build from a shop using my tanks has been fine for 4 years. I don’t think it will be any issue unless they have blocked all the fins with paint goop for no airflow.
Also not sure if you found this chart posted here about 2F specs
.0008 - .0017 confirming standard range.
- Thread starter
- #372
You noticed no difference with the painted fins? Like none at all?
Regarding this spec sheet you posted: when we convert to the superior dimension, that equates to .020 - .043mm. Pretty muchead on to the FSM "STD" range. So what exactly does the "limit" spec mean? And what does having my main clearances be 25-50% over the "STD" range mean for engine health/life? I'm trying not to think like the sky is falling here, but...
Unless the paint is ridiculously thick it won’t affect the heat transfer enough for you to measure on your truck. As said, if it’s so thick it reduces airflow you probably should remove it. From your picture it looks nice and thin. My original unit came back that way from repair, too, and I saw no difference on the temp gauge between before and after the paint. I developed aircraft heat exchangers for several years and we dip epoxy coated aluminum heat exchangers for navy aircraft for corrosion protection. The epoxy coating had no performance affect on the units in service.
- Thread starter
- #374
Ok, so this is a me problem. Thanks for clearing that up Ross.
I will say it looks s***ty though. Oh well!
I was super bummed about mine after I got it back. Not only was it a crappy spray job it hadn’t been cleaned well before paint and some of it never dried. Got all over me during installation a week later. I feel your pain.
- Thread starter
- #376
Mine is definitely not a great job. Surface contaminants or temperature caused crazing and wrinkle, and yes some of it is still "wet" and got all over my hand carrying it to the truck. I guess for $225, what would I expect? Maybe I strip it to simply do the paint myself and make it look nice. Maybe another radiator shop could chemical dip to remove the paint for cheap.
I think just run it. What shop did the work, mine was done by A-1 on Federal? Other than the paint he did a great job.
FJBen
SILVER Star
Yeah, zero difference…but I also had a whole new core put in. 2 years earlier I had a shop pressure test and check it and they painted it
it lasted 2 years after then then started to leak. I replaced it, well had a custom build done with a high efficiency 4 core with my original top/bottom tanks. It’s a heavy beast. $780 and you guessed it, black paint. Now whether it’s fancy thinned radiator paint or cheap rustoleum, I don’t know.
Some fun engineering discussion on painted vs bare intercooler
Limit usually means, that’s the last acceptable tolerance on that part so replace if over that.
Usually you just grind a crank and use U/S bearings and all is good to go. When you reach the end of that range, it’s replace to get the crank in spec.
- Thread starter
- #379
That’s my concern. Sure the current clearance is under the limit, but it’s already beyond the “STD” range in the manual.
I also noticed this on the radiator.
Looks like they jammed a screwdriver in there and pushed the fins down on every tube. Checking the junctions at the tank maybe? But come on man haha.
Here’s the work deleting the leaky tube:
No problem! Just paint bomb it!
@RDub this was Gold Star Radistor on S Broadway near I-25. I pass it on the way to work, so going there was purely out of convenience.
FJBen
SILVER Star
That’s my concern. Sure the current clearance is under the limit, but it’s already beyond the “STD” range in the manual.
I also noticed this on the radiator.
View attachment 3866219
Looks like they jammed a screwdriver in there and pushed the fins down on every tube. Checking the junctions at the tank maybe? But come on man haha.
Here’s the work deleting the leaky tube:
View attachment 3866222
No problem! Just paint bomb it!
@RDub this was Gold Star Radistor on S Broadway near I-25. I pass it on the way to work, so going there was purely out of convenience.
I would say if you are wanting to never mess with this for awhile, grind the crank and get the bearings Undersized to be in spec.
If you aren’t super concerned with being in the standard range, then run it and like you said and I doubt you will run into any issues since it’s still below the limit level.
As for the radiator fins, from a working standpoint Probabaly fine.
I used AAA radiator in Longmont. Seems to be good work.
