Was deal thread, now TJM locker install thread
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I'm running an ARB CKMA12 single- it has plenty of CFM for locker operation. (Enough to keep up with the leak and still keep it locked)
I'm pretty well convinced it's the interrelated parts in the bulkhead fitting- pointing to either the Orings not sealing well-or a nick in the end of the copper line.
The rub is that 3 of us have similar condition- which maybe points to design flaw in the plumbing parts of the bulkhead fitting. If you look at ARB bulkhead fitting that was redesigned, it solved the issue we may be experiencing-only problem is they use a NPT and 5mm fitting and that won't work on our set up.
I'm in contact with TJM AU trying to get some "diff"initive answers.
Here's what they said
"From my understanding, the most likely cause will be…
"Hello again,
I have just finally managed to het a hold of the specialist for a few minutes, he is of the same opinion, likely the bulkhead is not tight enough or the seal has been pinched when fitting.
Unfortunately, this may need to be done internally within the diff to check.
Best to double check before refitting if this is so."
When they installed the bulk head fitting they did say it gave them some trouble, and commented on the design could have been better. Going back for some help to get this sorted Wednesday.
I'm pretty well convinced it's the interrelated parts in the bulkhead fitting- pointing to either the Orings not sealing well-or a nick in the end of the copper line.
The rub is that 3 of us have similar condition- which maybe points to design flaw in the plumbing parts of the bulkhead fitting. If you look at ARB bulkhead fitting that was redesigned, it solved the issue we may be experiencing-only problem is they use a NPT and 5mm fitting and that won't work on our set up.
I'm in contact with TJM AU trying to get some "diff"initive answers.
Here's what they said
"From my understanding, the most likely cause will be…
- The seal/join between the actuator line and the bulkhead
- The actuator pipe work (possibly damaged in fitment)
- The actuator."
"Hello again,
I have just finally managed to het a hold of the specialist for a few minutes, he is of the same opinion, likely the bulkhead is not tight enough or the seal has been pinched when fitting.
Unfortunately, this may need to be done internally within the diff to check.
Best to double check before refitting if this is so."
When they installed the bulk head fitting they did say it gave them some trouble, and commented on the design could have been better. Going back for some help to get this sorted Wednesday.
I heard this same thing from the shop I used.
I posted a few weeks ago about an issue I'm having post locker install. It happens intermittlely, but it feels like the diff doesn't "catch" when keeping the pedal steady at certain RPM's. I notice it when going uphill on the freeway. I know, terrible description but it's hard to explain.
To me, it's more strange than an issue. I just give it more gas and the truck moves. I feel like it's related to this.
PS I'm running the actual TJM Pro Locker Compressor.
I'm sure your TJM compressor puts out enough cfm for the locker, but maybe measure the line pressure, and check for leaks at your bulkhead fitting and the end of diff breather ( make sure it's not plugged)
Depending how good your gear guy was setting up your diff will make all the difference in how well everything works together.
I found ZUK at gearinstalls.com while searching the web for answers. This guy is a Toyota gear install guru. He uses a pressure guage set up to check the line pressure, and check leak down of the actuator, pressurizing the locker and leaving over night. Good thread on a TJM install in an older truck not specific to our platform- but lots of pictures to learn from.TJM Locker Install
Wow, that's quite the article, tons of info and photos at every step. I noticed that version of seal used a brass crush fitting, not two tiny o rings. The fittings itself looks very different also. My setup would not pass the over night airleak test for sure, not even the over a coffee break test....
Wow, that's quite the article, tons of info and photos at every step. I noticed that version of seal used a brass crush fitting, not two tiny o rings. The fittings itself looks very different also. My setup would not pass the over night airleak test for sure, not even the over a coffee break test....
That is an older locker, and they must have updated the bulkhead fittings at some point a few years ago. The old design puts the business end(crush sleeve) of the fitting inside the diff, where the updated version puts the compression fotting outside. So in theory if you have a sealing issue you should be able to correct it with out removing the 3rd.
maybe I can even get my hand in there without taking off the skid plate.
So I'm driving around the block tonight and come across some wet pavement which I know isn't ideal for testing lockers, but I wanted to engage mine just to make sure everything was working properly.
I turned on the compressor and engaged both front and rear lockers. Sounds good. Both pressurize and the compressor stops after about 7 seconds. I drive about 50 feet and yup, they're locked because I can barely turn the wheel. I stop immediately and disengage the lockers, then turn off the compressor. I don't hear any pressure release from the solenoids (am I supposed to?). I start driving and the front locker does not disengage! I reverse a little and put it back into drive, and no cigar. Still locked up front. I disconnect the airlines at the solenoids and I'm still locked up front. The problem is that I hit a sharp right turn when all this happened so I'm trying to straighten out the car. I put her in reverse and go back 5 feet, then drive forward 2 or 3 feet (can barely turn the wheel), and repeat until I finally have her straight. She FINALLy disengages after driving 30 feet forward.
What's the problem here?
I turned on the compressor and engaged both front and rear lockers. Sounds good. Both pressurize and the compressor stops after about 7 seconds. I drive about 50 feet and yup, they're locked because I can barely turn the wheel. I stop immediately and disengage the lockers, then turn off the compressor. I don't hear any pressure release from the solenoids (am I supposed to?). I start driving and the front locker does not disengage! I reverse a little and put it back into drive, and no cigar. Still locked up front. I disconnect the airlines at the solenoids and I'm still locked up front. The problem is that I hit a sharp right turn when all this happened so I'm trying to straighten out the car. I put her in reverse and go back 5 feet, then drive forward 2 or 3 feet (can barely turn the wheel), and repeat until I finally have her straight. She FINALLy disengages after driving 30 feet forward.
What's the problem here?
I wish I had the experience to tell you what is going on. I can say my locker is not doing either of the two things your describing. It unlocks right away and feels more engaged than the original front diff did. I ask myself how can I feel that, but it's just tighter in a way.
I would get on the horn with tjm or a really good diff guy. Maybe these type of guys will say oh that sounds like this.... you need some one to point you in the right way. I even wonder if the gear mesh is setup correctly. Which would have nothing to do with the locking part, but more basic diff setup issue.
I would get on the horn with tjm or a really good diff guy. Maybe these type of guys will say oh that sounds like this.... you need some one to point you in the right way. I even wonder if the gear mesh is setup correctly. Which would have nothing to do with the locking part, but more basic diff setup issue.
Shanester- Another way to test your locker would be raising the front end, or rear end and engaging the compressor & locker make sure the wheels are locked and rotating together in the same direction.(make sure to block wheels that are on the ground)
Still sounds like you have solenoid plumbing issues, or a pinched, obstructed line as to why no air releases from the solenoid when you shut it off. Or the plunger in the solenoid may be sticking- which you can remove, inspect, lube with a drop of gun oil or similar and reinstall.
Do you know what kind of gear oil was used? Non-LSD right? 75-140 synth?
Back to diff "set-up" what little I know about this part, is that it's crucial to get it right- lots of critical actions involved: measurements, run out, seating the ring gear correctly, shims, gear lash-&-mesh etc. Hopefully your installer was competent in that area.
I believe that my installer is highly competent in all things gear related, they've installed many lockers, ARB, Eaton and others, but this was their first TJM install. The only remark they had with the locker install was the ring gear required some additional effort to fit-(very tight tolerance -which is good) and the bulkhead fitting itself- that it's not a great design compared to others.
This is the risk we take buying a "deal" and maybe paying on the backside for the learning curve. I think the TJM pro locker is a solid product, and not wildly different than ARB or Eaton, but unfortunately it's not well supported here in the US, so that should weigh into future purchase decision.
Still sounds like you have solenoid plumbing issues, or a pinched, obstructed line as to why no air releases from the solenoid when you shut it off. Or the plunger in the solenoid may be sticking- which you can remove, inspect, lube with a drop of gun oil or similar and reinstall.
Do you know what kind of gear oil was used? Non-LSD right? 75-140 synth?
Back to diff "set-up" what little I know about this part, is that it's crucial to get it right- lots of critical actions involved: measurements, run out, seating the ring gear correctly, shims, gear lash-&-mesh etc. Hopefully your installer was competent in that area.
I believe that my installer is highly competent in all things gear related, they've installed many lockers, ARB, Eaton and others, but this was their first TJM install. The only remark they had with the locker install was the ring gear required some additional effort to fit-(very tight tolerance -which is good) and the bulkhead fitting itself- that it's not a great design compared to others.
This is the risk we take buying a "deal" and maybe paying on the backside for the learning curve. I think the TJM pro locker is a solid product, and not wildly different than ARB or Eaton, but unfortunately it's not well supported here in the US, so that should weigh into future purchase decision.
Got the truck up on the hoist today, looks like my leak is internal ( inside the diff) pointing towards being actuator related. Checked all fittings- (good) and then put air directly to the copper actuator inlet tube, and still had air leaking inside the diff. Very disappointing. So the 3rd has to come back out and get a look at the problem. I already have another actuator on the way, but at this point the "deal" is a dud, its going to cost me another 4hrs labor to go back in and pull the axles, and 3rd out and then reinstall. Installer spent 2hrs of their time trouble shooting, so I am grateful for their time and service support.
Heavily contemplating pulling this thing out and going another direction-chalking it up to an expensive learning experience. As tight as I am with my build budget, I do not want to chase air leaks for the life of this install. My confidence in the simplicity of this air locker set up has been diminished.
Heavily contemplating pulling this thing out and going another direction-chalking it up to an expensive learning experience. As tight as I am with my build budget, I do not want to chase air leaks for the life of this install. My confidence in the simplicity of this air locker set up has been diminished.
That is a shame... the actuator can be bench tested for leaks before installation. Its soldered so leaks can be repaired. Seems like the person installing this should test this prior to the install. Unless the leak happened after the installation which can happen if the copper hose is bent to much. I'm going to bench test my actuator for leaks before i send it off to install. If its the O rings than that can also be addressed. Also even ARB's are prone to leak, if it was me and the leak was small I wouldn't worry about it as long as the compressor can keep up with the leak, I have a ARB twin so I think a small leak is no worry.
Sav-
I was told it was bench tested, and also tested in the vehicle once it was buttoned up. And it worked when I picked it up. I trust the installer on their word, they are a reputable business.
When I tested the locker the next week, the compressor cycled on & off for 7-8 times and then stopped- thought that was weird but figured it was ok. I tested again this past weekend and pressure didn't hold, so something went wrong inside incrementally. We won't know for sure until we go back in and look.
The simplicity of design is good, everyone agrees with that but reliability is in question( for me) the cost of digging in each time is huge. It'd be a different story if we had a diff cover to acess the 3rd with out having to pull it.
Having the compressor cycling on & off every 5-10 seconds to keep up with a leak aint gonna fly with me, and I don't want the added drag on my charging system dealing with the amp draw, or the potential pressure inside the diff should the vent line get plugged for any reason- the seals would suffer and leak.
I'm looking at rr labor again I may as well consider a more reliable set up (Harrop E locker).
I see. Looks like all the right things were done. Wonder if the pressure was too high and blew a ring seal. Also wonder if there is a way to regulate the pressure in the line. I know the twin compressor puts out quite a bit of cfm, too much for the manifold at times (I hear it leaking slowly).
Possibly too much pressure but the ARB CKMA12 (single) comes with a pressure cut off switch 70/100psi, could that be defective or could it have mistakenly a higher psi switch, maybe- I think I'll check that. The TJM line ARB should be operated at the 90psi range, even though mine engaged at 50psi.
Yeah putting a regulator would ensure accurate psi is delivered. But that's one more set of fittings to potentially leak.
Yeah putting a regulator would ensure accurate psi is delivered. But that's one more set of fittings to potentially leak.
I got my front diff dropped out by the shop today. My actuator failed. The c clip on the end where the air line attaches popped out under pressure. Luckily it did not do much additional damage. The copper(?) line that feeds air to the locker actuator has some abrasion marks from rubbing against the ring gear after popping loose, the c clip was in two pieces on the drain magnet. There was a barely visible amount of surface marks on the ring gear, which the shop is going to polish out. I am going to leave my house at 5:30 am tomorrow and drive to TJM in El Cajon, Ca. about 2 hours and 10 minutes away. I spoke with Alex at TJM yesterday in advance of taking the diff down to make sure they had any related parts in stock and they did. Spoke with Wes at TJM today about a potential warranty replacement on the part(s) and he asked for pictures, I said better yet I will bring you the parts. Important to note, Wes and Alex have been very nice and helpful every time I have contacted them. I will keep everyone posted on the possible warranty replacement of the broken and or damaged parts.
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J&S were awesome. They did a great job on my truck after I did all the necessary wiring before hand. My solenoid was bad, replaced it with an ARB. Got in touch with TJM in El Cajon (luckily they are 15 minutes from my place) and Wes at the shop provided me with a brand new Solenoid. Will keep that for future use. TJM support has been great. Didn't even know they existed in San Diego until I started looking.
All the best
04gto-
That is concerning. Did the internals blow out? A. $0.75 cent circlip failed, not good. Makes me wonder if that is the same issue I have.
Too much air pressure ( during bench test or on board air)? Circlip not seated correctly? Bad casting? Bad circlip?
Wes said they have had Zero issues with the actuators- guess that's # 1....
That is concerning. Did the internals blow out? A. $0.75 cent circlip failed, not good. Makes me wonder if that is the same issue I have.
Too much air pressure ( during bench test or on board air)? Circlip not seated correctly? Bad casting? Bad circlip?
Wes said they have had Zero issues with the actuators- guess that's # 1....
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