Towing with a 200-series Toyota Land Cruiser (12 Viewers)

[nakman]

Nice setup you got going there.

As for the load distribution hitch - absolutely. That in and of itself will improve everything you mention including stability against side wind, cross winds, passing rigs, high speed, porpoising (nautical boat motions)...everything. It'll also level the rig nicely, transferring some of the tongue weight back to the front axle, and trailer axle.

How much tongue weight is that trailer? You probably only need something light, perhaps an easy to use Anderson style WD hitch.

About 600 pounds tongue weight. I'm getting a lift in December (OME 2722) so that will add about 2" of height to the truck, and I'm hoping the stiffer spring rate may help reduce all the other stability stuff... I am finding a lot of WD are also heavy, so just wrestling with the irony that another 100 pounds on the tongue is helpful here.

 

[linuxgod]

About 600 pounds tongue weight. I'm getting a lift in December (OME 2722) so that will add about 2" of height to the truck, and I'm hoping the stiffer spring rate may help reduce all the other stability stuff... I am finding a lot of WD are also heavy, so just wrestling with the irony that another 100 pounds on the tongue is helpful here.

Tim are you keeping the factory tire size or are you stepping up to something larger like 33s?

Are you planning to build up the truck (drawers, rear bumper, etc?) or are you just planning a lift? If you're not planning to build the truck up you may want to consider the OME 2721 rear springs instead of the 2722. The factory spring is 170#/in coil rate. The 2721 is a progressive which starts at 270#/in and goes up to 340#/in as you load it. The 2722 is a fixed 340#/in spring. I think the 2722 will be stiff and unpleasant when you're unloaded unless you have a couple hundred pounds always in the rear as you're doubling the spring rate.

I really like my BlueOx 1000 WD hitch. I've heard the Equalizer and a few other newer solid-bar options work well too but I haven't tried them.

• The WD hitch will help a bit but they also have anti-sway properties which I think will benefit you more than the WD itself in windy conditions and when passing trucks.
• Even with the extra WD hitch weight you'll still move weight to your front axle, which will help with handling as well since weight you apply to the rear lifts the front wheels a bit which leads to even more positive camber and toe-in in your alignment.
• When you get the lift on, have the shop set the alignment roughly as follows:
  • At least 3 degrees of positive caster (go up to ~3.5 degrees if you can). If the shop can't get to at least 3 degrees you need aftermarket UCAs.
  • Set camber to neutral (0 degrees)
  • Toe-in set to 1/16th (with the OEM tires) or 1/32nd (if you go taller and heavier)
• Definitely get yourself on a CAT scale at a truck stop to get the weight of your vehicle + trailer as well as your weight without the trailer. Your tongue may be a lot heavier than you think.
• Your trailer weight setup will affect handling as well. Not just the amount of weight but where it's located matters. I find my trailer tows a lot better when I put some extra weight in the rear of the trailer... the extra weight acts like a ballast when passing semis, for instance.

 

[nakman]

Good stuff, thanks Geoff! I tend to always have a lot of weight in the truck, already have a fridge and I'm sure drawers will come soon.. sliders are going on same day as the lift. Good to know the spring rate will be higher. And I'm going to run these tires for at least another year as they're pretty new still... 285 60 r18. I'll have to see what they look like with the lift before deciding to go bigger. And yes, SPC arms are part of the package, I'll trust those guys down in Golden know how to do the alignment also

I am going to see how it tows again with the lift before doing the WD hitch... good to know it'll help with my experience so far.

 

[linuxgod]

Good stuff, thanks Geoff! I tend to always have a lot of weight in the truck, already have a fridge and I'm sure drawers will come soon.. sliders are going on same day as the lift. Good to know the spring rate will be higher. And I'm going to run these tires for at least another year as they're pretty new still... 285 60 r18. I'll have to see what they look like with the lift before deciding to go bigger. And yes, SPC arms are part of the package, I'll trust those guys down in Golden know how to do the alignment also

I am going to see how it tows again with the lift before doing the WD hitch... good to know it'll help with my experience so far.

Cool. For reference I have your rack (with ~60# of crap on it), sliders, lift, front winch bumper, and one rear drawer which is fully loaded with crap. I also have Tough Dog 240#/in rear springs. I feel they are a bit stiff around town (bumpy city roads) when I'm by myself, but perfect when my dog or a kid is in the 3rd row. When towing I wish they were stiffer. Without a rear bumper if I did it again I'd go with the progressive 2721. If you end up with two drawers full of stuff along with your fridge though then the 2722 might be the sweet spot.

Depending on your tire and wheel direction, I believe some of the tire shops (Just Tires, Discount Tire) will give you a credit for your tires, so there may or may not be a cost savings to run them for a while as the credit will decrease as you wear them down. OTOH the credit will be maybe 50% of the value. One plus side of keeping the OEM tire size is if you need to use chains you'll have clearance to do so, whereas if you step up the tire size or change wheel offset you risk hitting your fenders and suspension bits

Yeah I'd trust Slee for sure

 

[montegofd3s]

Just FYI, the spring rates and freestanding spring heights are below....
Number / height A B in mm / Weight (double number is progressive)
2720 / 420 410 / 270-350lbs
2721 / 440 430 / 270-350lbs
2722 / 440 430 / 275lbs constant
2723 / 450 440 / 340lbs constant

 

[linuxgod]

Just FYI, the spring rates and freestanding spring heights are below....
Number / height A B in mm / Weight (double number is progressive)
2720 / 420 410 / 270-350lbs
2721 / 440 430 / 270-350lbs
2722 / 440 430 / 275lbs constant
2723 / 450 440 / 340lbs constant

Looks like you're correct. I was apparently confusing the 2722 and 2723. Found the chart after some digging...

So in @nakman's case the 2721 and 2722 should be similar performance and should both work acceptably. If towing I'd still opt for the 2721, particularly if considering running the trailer without weight distribution, but my trailer TW is closer to 900#

 

[JetFuel]

About 600 pounds tongue weight. I'm getting a lift in December (OME 2722) so that will add about 2" of height to the truck, and I'm hoping the stiffer spring rate may help reduce all the other stability stuff... I am finding a lot of WD are also heavy, so just wrestling with the irony that another 100 pounds on the tongue is helpful here.

Based on my (limited) experience, I think you'll find that even with the heavier springs, the WD/anti-sway hitch will be a game changer and make towing a much more comfortable, less stressful, and enjoyable experience. I've been towing a 5k lb travel trailer with my 2015 LX using an Equalizer WD hitch rated for the right weight for about 15,000 miles so far this year in all sorts of scenarios, and it hasn't gotten squirrely once.

 

[TeCKis300]

Good stuff, thanks Geoff! I tend to always have a lot of weight in the truck, already have a fridge and I'm sure drawers will come soon.. sliders are going on same day as the lift. Good to know the spring rate will be higher. And I'm going to run these tires for at least another year as they're pretty new still... 285 60 r18. I'll have to see what they look like with the lift before deciding to go bigger. And yes, SPC arms are part of the package, I'll trust those guys down in Golden know how to do the alignment also

I am going to see how it tows again with the lift before doing the WD hitch... good to know it'll help with my experience so far.

@JetFuel makes a good point. There's differing goals here and while spring rates may help with some aspects, I really would encourage you to look into WD hitches just the same as it addresses stability concerns beyond what springs accomplish. As you get more comfortable towing, with higher speeds, and potentially crossing paths with unforeseen cross winds and situations, a WD hitch will more than earn its keep. Our rigs have rather short wheelbase, and with larger travel trailers that can really catch cross winds, can be a recipe for sway. Which only a WD hitch will solve. Being on the travel trailer forums, majority of experienced owners would not recommend a travel trailer without one. Perhaps a 3/4 or 1-ton paired with a relatively lighter trailer, but even those owners find advantages in running a WD hitch.

 

[Slow Paddler]

The biggest concern I had was towing without a WD setup. Kimberley advises that a WD system cannot be used on Kruisers due to their design, and the KK teams both here and in Australia assured me that the LC would tow the S3 just fine.

In preparation, I updated my suspension with Ironman FCPs and their 1” “Comfort Lift” springs. I also added Airbagman HP bags.

Dry weight of the trailer is 4880lbs, and max is 6400lbs. I figure I’m around 5500lbs. Kimberley designs these trailers with a heavy tongue, and we measured mine at 725lbs, fully loaded and with water tanks half full.

Setting the airbags to 45psi gets the trailer level, and it tows like a dream. Zero sway when semis pass…even tandems. The only buffeting I notice is from flat-front motor homes. I assume they’re pushing air in such a way that it affects the flow in an odd way.

Gas mileage is typical…today through western OK and northern TX with 20mph winds, I got 8.5mpg. Saturday and Sunday through OH, IN, IL, and MO, I got 10.2mpg. 60mph in S6.

That's good information! My biggest concern after the weight, is how it does with the 8-speed in mountains and big rolling hills. Even with my little 1700# Hiker, I lock out 7th and 8th to avoid constant shifting. When I saw your trailer, it still had the requisite ball hitch for importing, but I think Dave said you were going with a McHitch. Is that correct? Easy to use?

I was just added to the KK US FB group today.

Safe travels!

 

[prwillard2]

That's good information! My biggest concern after the weight, is how it does with the 8-speed in mountains and big rolling hills. Even with my little 1700# Hiker, I lock out 7th and 8th to avoid constant shifting. When I saw your trailer, it still had the requisite ball hitch for importing, but I think Dave said you were going with a McHitch. Is that correct? Easy to use?

I was just added to the KK US FB group today.

Safe travels!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't you never go above 6th gear in the 8 speeds when towing?

 

[Dan Higgins]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't you never go above 6th gear in the 8 speeds when towing?

Owners manual says to run in S6 and no higher. Not that some don't do it. (Owners manual also says not to use cruise control but I know some do that as well and I have done it from time to time a straight, flat sections). But I believe S7 and S8 are "overdrive" gears. S6 is comparable to what is S4 on the pre-2016 models. Owners manual also says to have ECT PWR engaged when towing as many here will recommend. That will help with some of the shifting. Sometimes I find that I n

I have towed two different trailers now (6K/27 and 5800/25') for the past 4 years throughout Colorado and now the PNW. S6 for everything except descents where I drop the gearing down as much as necessary to manage the speed - especially on curvy descents. Or when I want to avoid gear "hunting" and maintain a high RPM on long climbs.

And, yes, I have always used a WD hitch. The WD hitch is mostly about leveraging weight to the front axle and the trailer axle, not merely supporting the rear end of the LC.

But this is nothing new. It has all been discussed a length is the lengthy yet very informative thread!

 

[catastrofe]

Owners manual says to run in S6 and no higher. Not that some don't do it. (Owners manual also says not to use cruise control but I know some do that as well and I have done it from time to time a straight, flat sections). But I believe S7 and S8 are "overdrive" gears. S6 is comparable to what is S4 on the pre-2016 models. Owners manual also says to have ECT PWR engaged when towing as many here will recommend. That will help with some of the shifting. Sometimes I find that I n

I have towed two different trailers now (6K/27 and 5800/25') for the past 4 years throughout Colorado and now the PNW. S6 for everything except descents where I drop the gearing down as much as necessary to manage the speed - especially on curvy descents. Or when I want to avoid gear "hunting" and maintain a high RPM on long climbs.

And, yes, I have always used a WD hitch. The WD hitch is mostly about leveraging weight to the front axle and the trailer axle, not merely supporting the rear end of the LC.

But this is nothing new. It has all been discussed a length is the lengthy yet very informative thread!

The owner’s manual says that when using engine braking, to maintain efficiency, don’t go above S6. That begs the question “why should I be concerned about engine braking?” Realistically, don’t I want my brakes (which are sacrificial to begin with) handling that duty rather than my engine?

 

[JetFuel]

The owner’s manual says that when using engine braking, to maintain efficiency, don’t go above S6. That begs the question “why should I be concerned about engine braking?” Realistically, don’t I want my brakes (which are sacrificial to begin with) handling that duty rather than my engine?

I think the concern here is riding the brakes downhill and overheating them, rendering them useless.

 

[catastrofe]

That's good information! My biggest concern after the weight, is how it does with the 8-speed in mountains and big rolling hills. Even with my little 1700# Hiker, I lock out 7th and 8th to avoid constant shifting. When I saw your trailer, it still had the requisite ball hitch for importing, but I think Dave said you were going with a McHitch. Is that correct? Easy to use?

I was just added to the KK US FB group today.

Safe travels!

Thanks!

I was originally going to go with the McHitch, but it adds length to the tongue which impacts towing physics (so I’m told) so I went with the Cruisemaster DO-35. The Cruisemaster was also recommended over the McHitch by the owner of Hitch-Ezy in Australia (Hitch-Ezy | Tow Couplings | Caravan 4WD Towing - https://www.hitch-ezy.com.au/).

Gas mileage from Albuquerque to Petrified Forest National Park hauling 35 gallons of fresh/gray water:

 

[catastrofe]

I think the concern here is riding the brakes downhill and overheating them, rendering them useless.

Great point. Being from Florida, I’ve never had to content with many hills!

 

[linuxgod]

I used to insist people should go no higher than 4th in the 6 speed or 6th in the 8 speed. That 1:1 (non-overdrive) gear tends to be the sweet spot for gas mileage and A/T temperature control. I still think that's generally true if you have stock gearing and a big trailer. But after re-gearing my 2013 to 4.88's this year, I think I can fine-tune the advice, so here goes...

You can tow in any gear you want, SO LONG AS YOU CAN MAINTAIN TORQUE CONVERTER LOCKUP IN THAT GEAR. That part is key. If you can't keep the TC locked, you're going to generate a tremendous amount of heat. In that case you need to run one gear lower. Now that said even if you can keep the TC locked in your top gear, you probably shouldn't run in that gear unless you have a very light trailer as A/T fluid pressure is lower and won't cool as well. But, so long as the TC stays locked the difference will be small.

If your TC unlocks, or if your transmission downshifts, you need to manually shift to a lower gear - EVEN IF YOU'RE JUST MANUALLY SELECTING THE GEAR IT DOWNSHIFTED TO. That part is also key. And it's a bit unintuitive for most of us. We tend to think "If the transmission downshifted from 6th to 5th then why downshift because the transmission already knows the right gear?" But that's not how it works. With the 2008-2015 6-speed A/T, if you're in 6th gear and the TC is locked, then you approach a hill the T/C unlocks, you speed continues to drop, and the transmission drops into 5th gear. However it does NOT lock the TC while you're in 5th, if you have 6th gear selected. Instead it hums along all day in 5th gear with the TC unlocked, getting worse gas mileage than if you'd just selected 5th gear from the get-go (which would allow the transmission to lock-up the TC in 5th gear).

The thing about Toyota's TC lockup algorithm is that it prioritizes fuel economy over A/T wear (temperature control, specifically). The TC lock is about a 10% fuel improvement, give or take. So if you're going 70 mph and getting a phenomenal 7.5-8 MPG, unlocking will drop that to ~7 MPG. If you downshift another gear you might drop further to 5.5-6 MPG. So, in this CAFE-focused country, you can see why Toyota would opt for economy. If the transmission detects that you need more help to maintain speed (but not so much you're mashing the skinny pedal and forcing the A/T to drop one or two gears down), it will unlock the torque converter first. If that doesn't give you the power you need to maintain (or gain) speed, then it will drop another gear. In lower gears it won't lock the TC because it's goal is to get you back to the higher gear as quickly as possible and if the TC locks up in a lower gear it then needs to unlock to shift.

Previously in my rig (34s, poor aero, stock 3.90 gears) I could keep the TC locked in 4th gear, but 5th was sketchy. If it was really flat and I was going maybe 60mph it would stay locked, but higher speeds or any hills and it would unlock. While locked it would run in the 196-201F range all day. When unlocked it would climb to ~220-225F in the span of a minute or two.

Upon re-gearing I've found I can typically hold 5th gear if it's reasonably flat or long rolling hills, even up to 75 mph. So long as I can hold 5th, my temps are stable (after regear my 4th and 5th gear temp are in the 208-212F range typically. If the TC unlocks though they will rise by +20F pretty quickly. If it unlocks, I manually shift to 4th until I'm sure that I can go back into 5th and lock the TC.

Side note about 6th - I've tried to run in 6th with my 4.88's and if it's REALLY flat and I'm not pushing my speed to more than 60 or maybe 65 I can do it. However the transmission fluid pressure (and thus cooling ability) is directly related to engine RPM. And in 6th gear the RPMs are low enough that fluid circulates slowly and in my experience will run the transmission several degrees warmer (around 217-218F for me, or about +5F to +7F) even when the TC is locked. And don't even bother with 6th gear on stock gearing unless your trailer is so light and small that it's unnoticed (like a small turtleback or popup).

 

[linuxgod]

I think the concern here is riding the brakes downhill and overheating them, rendering them useless.

Yep. If you're in overdrive gears going downhill you'll pick up speed quickly. You'll have to use your brakes a lot, possibly riding them all the time to maintain speed. They'll get hotter as you ride them, eventually overheating the fluid and causing a total loss of brakes.

@catastrofe If you're on a hill (I know there aren't many of them in Florida), definitely use 4th, 3rd, or even 2nd gear. Also don't be afraid to use engine braking. Yes the engine is spinning fast, but the ECU backs off the fuel so you're mostly just spinning the engine and moving air. Big rig diesels downshift all the time and those engines last 500k miles. Engine braking like this which spins the engine at 4k-5k RPMs is not the same amount of wear as you mashing the gas pedal from a stoplight.

 

[catastrofe]

Yep. If you're in overdrive gears going downhill you'll pick up speed quickly. You'll have to use your brakes a lot, possibly riding them all the time to maintain speed. They'll get hotter as you ride them, eventually overheating the fluid and causing a total loss of brakes.

@catastrofe If you're on a hill (I know there aren't many of them in Florida), definitely use 4th, 3rd, or even 2nd gear. Also don't be afraid to use engine braking. Yes the engine is spinning fast, but the ECU backs off the fuel so you're mostly just spinning the engine and moving air. Big rig diesels downshift all the time and those engines last 500k miles. Engine braking like this which spins the engine at 4k-5k RPMs is not the same amount of wear as you mashing the gas pedal from a stoplight.

Thanks.

We are now traveling full time in our Kimberley. Drove from Bellefontaine OH to Flagstaff over the last 5 days. S6 all the way, with S5 or S4 on the larger uphill grades.

 

[eatSleepWoof]

Thanks.

We are now traveling full time in our Kimberley. Drove from Bellefontaine OH to Flagstaff over the last 5 days. S6 all the way, with S5 or S4 on the larger uphill grades.

Once you've got some time under your belt, can you report on how stable it is at highway speeds? Especially in turns, any downhills (that you can find), etc. And I'd still love to see as many photos as you're willing to share. Any unexpected surprises at all? Anything to nit pick about the layout/usability/features?

 

[FrazzledHunter]

The biggest concern I had was towing without a WD setup. Kimberley advises that a WD system cannot be used on Kruisers due to their design, and the KK teams both here and in Australia assured me that the LC would tow the S3 just fine.

In preparation, I updated my suspension with Ironman FCPs and their 1” “Comfort Lift” springs. I also added Airbagman HP bags.

Dry weight of the trailer is 4880lbs, and max is 6400lbs. I figure I’m around 5500lbs. Kimberley designs these trailers with a heavy tongue, and we measured mine at 725lbs, fully loaded and with water tanks half full.

Setting the airbags to 45psi gets the trailer level, and it tows like a dream. Zero sway when semis pass…even tandems. The only buffeting I notice is from flat-front motor homes. I assume they’re pushing air in such a way that it affects the flow in an odd way.

Gas mileage is typical…today through western OK and northern TX with 20mph winds, I got 8.5mpg. Saturday and Sunday through OH, IN, IL, and MO, I got 10.2mpg. 60mph in S6.

Did Kimberly tell you exactly why a WD hitch can't be used? I'm not challenging anything, rather just genuinely curious.