Timing belt job just done. Blown engine or savable? This is interesting guys! (2 Viewers)

[JunkCrzr89]

I've a case now and seen this in mud more than once. It's where a front caliper mounting bolt comes loose. Not being marked. I've no way to no' Was it torqued in. I've always said "it was not torqued. if it cam loose". But we've a number of these happening.

I now see Toyota has changed it recommendation on the caliper securing bolt. In the 200 series FSM. Toyota have them as non reusable now. Why the change? Could it be they are stretching after torqued in, and when reused, they may then coming loose. Without the mark we've no way to know if torqued. Had it been mark and come loose, we'd know we've an issue that need addressing.

Not to detract from the timing belt stuff, but I’ve always put a dab of blue locktite on caliper mounting bolts. Yet to have one back out on me. However, I do think threads get stretched, so I reuse bolts and add blue locktite on first caliper removal job, then get new bolts and add blue locktite on second caliper removal job. Whether that be for wheel bearings or whatever, I replace caliper bolts on #2, #4, etc removal.

 

[Hugh Heifer]

I saw those. Seems slow and more to be used as proof.

Those are generally used to visually detect a bolt losing torque. So a nut or bolt turning and loosening.
We also sometimes used them across access panels to be able to see if anyone had gone into a panel while an aircraft was parked on a ramp somewhere.

 

[joshAUST]

Hi again 2001LC.
Thanks once again.
So, just to clarify, is the fob built into the Toyota keys, and it doesn't have buttons, etc, to remotely lock/unlock the vehicle?
It's fine if so, as that's what I've been doing, but wouldn't mind the option. if its readily available.

I'll try to get some photos of the LH side ECU (its a UZJ100R), and of the jumper wire in the ECU, when I get it back from the mechanic, after the engine replacement.
It may not be even related. if the fob is built in, of course, it could be just some other creative electronics.

 

[joshAUST]

Not to detract from the timing belt stuff, but I’ve always put a dab of blue locktite on caliper mounting bolts. Yet to have one back out on me. However, I do think threads get stretched, so I reuse bolts and add blue locktite on first caliper removal job, then get new bolts and add blue locktite on second caliper removal job. Whether that be for wheel bearings or whatever, I replace caliper bolts on #2, #4, etc removal.

I lost a rear driver side brake caliper bolt on my uzj100 a few years ago.
I had done a little bit of off roading the day before, then headed away.
At the next town, as I braked to slow down, I could hear a clunk...so I pulled in and found the culprit easily enough.
A local mechanic charged a small fee to put it on the hoist and put in a new bolt, and check all the others.
But yes, using locktite, or similar, is a good suggestion.

 

[2001LC]

I don't mind getting off topic @joshAUST . As this thread had its ending. But the power of the entire tech section of the 100 series. It's wisdom, knowledge and help will be missed here in this narrow focused thread. I suggested you start a thread talking about what all is going on with your rig. I'm already lost on your case, as I'm in so many thread and PM. If you don't see me come into it PM with link, I'll help all I can.

Immobilizer and door fob.
I did register a fob and a master on my 07LX a few months ago. That was my first experience dealing with keys & fobs. I had no master nor any fobs (door lock remote) to start with. My wireless receive for the fob, wasn't getting power (bad Dome fuse) and the master key I had cut by locksmith, was a bad cut. So I really learned by fire.

I got help on the master by starting a thread on it. I learned the door FOB are different frequency, depending on year. So are they chip in fob for immobilizer. Also FOB has the immobilizer chip in-bedded. The Toyota keys that are solid without FOB shell, have a chip in-bedded.

If your keys worked before, they are registered in your system and should work now. Provided you've not replaced the computer that the transponder code is flashed to. It's my understanding that you'll see a security light blinking on center console. That security light stop blinking the moment a master is put into the IG switch. If a salve key with the transponder chip in-bedded in the hard plastic head of key and register to the computer is used. Security light blinks a few more times than goes out. If immobilizer not working do to unregistered key inserted, or a fault in the system security light just keeps blinking.
Immobilizer transponder chip registering. Stuck in registration mode. HELP! @thabruiser and @Mauser really helped me out.
@Mauser started a thread on Master.

100 series master key thread

forum.ih8mud.com

Not to detract from the timing belt stuff, but I’ve always put a dab of blue locktite on caliper mounting bolts. Yet to have one back out on me. However, I do think threads get stretched, so I reuse bolts and add blue locktite on first caliper removal job, then get new bolts and add blue locktite on second caliper removal job. Whether that be for wheel bearings or whatever, I replace caliper bolts on #2, #4, etc removal.

Whereas caliper is not specific to this thread, it is dealing with cause of this entire issue; Torquing bolts! "Caliper mounting bolts", replace every other time the bolt removed and use a thread sealer. Sound like a good procedure. One I'm going to adopted along with marking torqued bolts of consequence.

Blown engine or savable timing belt issue is what thread dealt with first:

1. Interference engine; this case was yet one more confirmation the non VVT 2UZ-fe, is not and interference engine
2. Reason; engine was would not run. Sheared camshaft knock pin. We also learned knock pin is pressed in the cam, and not sold separably in the 2UZ-fe. That we've a substitute from the 5VZ-fe that is a match.
3. Cause; failure to torque. Why something failed is always important. If cause not corrected, it will repeat. Bad CATs, burnt valves, caliper bolt failing out, etc. Their cause needs addressing.

Brake Caliper mounting bolts:

Factory Service Manual (FSM)
I've been rooting around FSMs from 2000 thru 2010. From 00-07 they do not recommend thread sealer on or replacement of, caliper mounting bolts anywhere I've seen. They simple give a torque just as they do for CAM bolt. Every bolt on the 100 series as a torque spec and some bolts and nuts have spec to reuse like head bolt, non reusable or pre-coated or call for a thread sealer. I'm a big stickler for following the FSM to the letter. But I've found many misprints, some wrong procedures and some stuff we need to do that is not in the FSM or that Toyota subsequently change their position on..

In 2008 (200 series) is first mention of caliper bolt being non reusable. I did not see (did I miss) anywhere FSM states pre-coated or thread sealer.

I've not been adding thread locker. Some may say; "we'll why not". Well, whenever a thread is lubed, be it thread locker, anti seize, oil, grease, wax, etc torque should be reduced. I get that info from Denso dealing with spark plugs.

________________________
Denso:
TORQUE RECOMMENDATION
The table on this page gives the recommended torque for proper spark plug installation. Improper installation may cause poor performance, and even result in engine damage.

Note: The installation torque values shown above apply to new spark plugs without lubricating the threads. If threads are lubricated, the torque value should be reduced by approximate 1/3 to avoid over-tightening.

*1N•m=0.1020kgf•m

Spark Plug Installation

Spark Plug Installation

densoautoparts.com

___________________________________________

I've was also given, by mud member, a very cool document on fastening system from aircraft industry. Talking about the difference performances of fastening systems. He first brought to my attention when he saw me greasing some trailer hitch/frame parts for rust mitigation. Like I said I learn so much from mud and it's great people. This also has section dealing with nits & bolts

Most everyone feels Toyota uses a very lite torque spec, as it is! So if were going to replace the caliper bolt. Over torquing, due to lubing threads should not matter. But I did see a lower torque in the 200 series of 73ft-lbf vs our 90ft-lbf in the 100 series for front caliper (which are bigger calipers) and no lube or pre-coated statements. But bolt for 200 series may be pre-coated see the red:

That said, Toyota 2008 200 series they change recommendation to non reusable Caliper bolt. Given the statements we've seen in the 100 series tech section of mud, on them coming loose. I feel and alert to mud is called for. This thread will just not bring the attention to the issue of caliper bolts.

 

[JunkCrzr89]

Blown engine or savable timing belt issue is what thread dealt with first:

1. Interference engine; this case was yet one more confirmation the non VVT 2UZ-fe, is not and interference engine
2. Reason; engine was would not run. Sheared camshaft knock pin. We also learned knock pin is pressed in the cam, and not sold separably in the 2UZ-fe. That we've a substitute from the 5VZ-fe that is a match.
3. Cause; failure to torque. Why something failed is always important. If cause not corrected, it will repeat. Bad CATs, burnt valves, caliper bolt failing out, etc. Their cause needs addressing.

#1 - worth repeating for the masses
#2 - hopefully nobody ever needs it again...but #3 demonstrates why, unfortunately, someone probably will!
#3 - great investigative work on your part figuring out the problem with this particular engine issue.

I'll leave caliper bolt, etc. comments to your other thread

 

[medtro]

Most everyone feels Toyota uses a very lite torque spec, as it is! So if were going to replace the caliper bolt. Over torquing, due to lubing threads should not matter. But I did see a lower torque in the 200 series of 73ft-lbf vs our 90ft-lbf in the 100 series for front caliper (which are bigger calipers) and no lube or pre-coated statements. But bolt for 200 series may be pre-coated see the red:

91 ft-lb for the caliper bolt according to my FSM, not 90 ft-lb.

 

[2001LC]

Wish my torque wrench was that accurate

Different manuals and different section of same manual have variation. Some are mind blowing. Translation From Japanese to English, transpose info from earlier vehicle FSM, some are errors.

2000 FSM

2007 FSM

 

[medtro]

2004 LAND CRUISER (RM1071U)

I found them on pages SA-11, SA-17, SA-19, SA-24, SA-25, SA-26, SS-38.

 

[JunkCrzr89]

Hey Paul - Any feedback from Cairo on how the engine is doing after this fix? My hope is that the pin shearing ultimately prevented cam damage, so just curious if he’s noticed anything odd or it’s been smooth sailing since your repair. Thanks!

 

[2001LC]

He keeps in touch and I have seen his LC again. Idle good, power band good, no issues. It's a 2UZ-fe, hard to kill.

My biggest concern is cylinder walls/rings. Due to excessive gasoline wash. Also CATs from raw gas and gunk dumping in them. I told him, we could to a compression & leak down test again to get baseline and some testing on CATS. But there isn't anything we'd do unless we've a issue, regardless of findings.

Keep in mind the cams did keep turning. The direction of crank/belt/cam sprockets travel is CW. Which tighten the cam bolt as sprocket spun shearing the pin.. So it happen to torque in bolt and hold sprocket by static pressure, at a point intake valve were open on compression stroke. This I'm sure of, based on leak down test force back resistance of BK 2 and blow back into intake manifold.

When a belt breaks, the cam stop at point of least resistance, that all valve springs are at least resistance. So valves are likely all closed or near full close. This is same if belt is off and cams at rest point. We've turned the crank with belt off and no interference. I've done this on a VVT engine also. I always wondered when we hear a belt break, didn't kill the engine, if "at rest cams" is why. That if time wrongly, and a cams keeps turning opening and closing valves, if it would then interfere.

Cairo's case really drive home the question/answer 2UZ-fe is not an interference engine. But the 2UZ-fe VVT is still believed to be an interference engine.

Right now I'm work on restore of Graybeard, set for a delivery date. I've also got a very interest brake job I'm working on. This one may yield some very interest results and clues, as to why so many end up replace the master.

Once I get caught up, I've have an 06LC VVT sitting here now that was towed in. It had head replaced and timing belt job done ~500 miles ago, by seasoned Toyota mechanic. Something has happened. A shop said crank will not turn, when wrench put on crank bolt. I'm going to be digging into it when I get time. It may be interesting!

 

[nothappening]

edited

hmm

 

[2001LC]

Update.

We had noted some coolant pink crusty under intake manifold along RH head gasket, at time of T-belt job. So we had on watch for leaks. It was felt during the re-due of timing belt job, we got the leak. By correct installing of water inlet with a new O-ring large and using 1282B FIPG on housing. But still had some concern with respect to water pump gasket and O-ring small for water cross of pipe. Those we did not touch.

This one came back for a 12 qt ATF flush. Soon after T-belt job, we did not find a leak.

But subsequently the leak appeared, in pocket next to water bypass joint front right side. I've seen this a few times now. In near ever case it's been the gasket for the water bypass joint to head.
Current pic

Pic taken during T-belt job

Inspect for coolant pink crusty trials, I saw none form any other area. So I'm 90% sure it is the water bypass gasket.

Although did find that pesky little weep (pink crusty) from top of throttle body, so often seen in 03-05.

In the non VVT engine the front gasket can be replaced without removing the intake manifold. One only need remove the throttle body and the bolt from fuel line bracket. Then water bypass will clear its securing studs.

Interesting that the gasket looked okay. So I recheck for coolant leak signs of pink crusty from else where and none found.

Nor did I find any pitting which is signs of electrolysis.

 

[2001LC]

Even the gasket looked fine.

I saw a slight marring on joint surface. But not enough to catch a finger nail on.

Cleaned all surface the best I could and reassembled with new gaskets, O-ring and 1282B FIPG after wiping all down with a de-greaser

But before buttoning up. I spotted and old nest under the intake. So I vacuumed it out.

 

[2001LC]

But first thing I did was a trick @abuck99 tough me. I J&B wield a coin to the weep at throttle body. Apparently there is some concern that little cap will works it way out and it will become a leak.

During assembly the PCV split just a little. So it will need replace. Or next time it's removed it will split more and leak vacuum.

Oh I also finally was able to remove a busted stud from RH head cover. Then add a bolt with washer to hold down air box. Seems the factory washer insert was missing and than bolt over-torqued bottoming it busted. All good now.

The J&B wield did not set-up until this morning. So I only just filled the coolant. Since I drain the radiator of ~1 gallon block of ~1.5 of coolant. I'll need to do multiple topping procedure with full 8 hour cool downs. But on first fill and warm up no leak found.