Thoughts From the 200 Crew On the LC250 Reveal

[Idaho Savage]

Comparing the 911 to the LC is ridiculous. Apples to oranges when you look at the TAM. Toyota is a business and exists to capture as much market share as possible. The market for SUVs is a fickle mistress who is evolving at relative light speed. A performance sports car market, it is not.

And as an owner of a 200, 62, and 40 and having owned an 80 and 100, I'll tell you that our beloved 200 is *barely* a LC in most people's minds. That ship largely left port in 1999.

A lot of old men shaking their fist at the clouds up in here.

 

[2021 LC200]

Don't think so, I owned a 2004 Sequoia and it was the best of the generations and was bullet proof.
And if you want to split hairs you spelled Sequoia wrong....I am done with this conversation thank you, and I still
love my Toyota SUVs. I also drive a BMW for fun

Nice! I have a 2014 535d which I love and with ISTA+ can maintain and fix myself. Removed the DPF. Drives pretty awesome for a 4 door sedan. Love taking it to Florida on long trips. Amazing comfort seats. Reliability a challenge. Hope it will hold up a couple more years.

 

[2021 LC200]

I will probably buy one, actually do like how it looks. The fact it's stripped down actually appeals to me.

Love my GX too. Owned 2x 80s, 40, GX470, and an FJ Cruiser. They all have their particular uses and areas where they are awesome. Owned a 200 for 4+ years. Great vehicle, literally a luxury tank - I just don't think the 200 being great precludes this 250 from also being great.

Thanks Tampacruiser. I agree the 250 can be great and I hope it will be. I like Toyota and hope they keep building as a minimum reliable vehicles. And maybe do not try to fool us with marketing tricks. Oh well.

 

[2021 LC200]

Comparing the 911 to the LC is ridiculous. Apples to oranges when you look at the TAM. Toyota is a business and exists to capture as much market share as possible. The market for SUVs is a fickle mistress who is evolving at relative light speed. A performance sports car market, it is not.

And as an owner of a 200, 62, and 40 and having owned an 80 and 100, I'll tell you that our beloved 200 is *barely* a LC in most people's minds. That ship largely left port in 1999.

A lot of old men shaking their fist at the clouds up in here.

Savage, did you read up and know why the 911 is being discussed?

 

[Specialeyes]

Don't think so, I owned a 2004 Sequoia and it was the best of the generations and was bullet proof.
And if you want to split hairs you spelled Sequoia wrong....I am done with this conversation thank you, and I still
love my Toyota SUVs. I also drive a BMW for fun

He was referring to the brand new Tundra and Sequoia. The ones with the turbo and hybrid engines. It is true (at least on the first year 2022 Tundras) that there were some quality control issues with things like body panels, interior plastics, trim moldings, seat covers, etc. FWIW the last Tundra I poked around in was a ‘23 Platty and it looked and felt nice. I also test drove a Sequoia about 6 months ago and noticed no obvious issues.

 

[desmocruiser]

I personally think the 911 and LC is a great comparison and they likely show up as one of the most shared garages of all enthusiast vehicle pairs. If they don’t, I bet it is one of the most desired!

 

[Specialeyes]

A lot of old men shaking their fist at the clouds up in here.

Hey I said this in that dumpster fire of a thread over in the 250/550 forum. Lol

 

[Gr8Daneger]

I hear Toyota is working on the new RAV4 for 2025. Since it is easier to bring less models to the US I guess they could introduce this as "the next generation 4Runner has finally arrived".


View attachment 3392671

I am sure many Toyota 4Runner wannabe's are in the moon right now as it will have a lower MSRP...

Wonder what the 4Runner crowd would say...

They will put Turbo V-Twin Hybrid in it and convince all the moped fanboys they can finally afford a real 4R.

 

[bj70bc]

im so bothered about this im going to go drive my 70 series with no seatbelt and drink beer and pretend its still 1986

 

[777Gage]

im so bothered about this im going to go drive my 70 series with no seatbelt and drink beer and pretend its still 1986

Perfect!!!

 

[Brown98LC]

what is interesting to note and no one seems to have mentioned yet, is the LC200 and LC300 both still have better off road angles in stock form than the new LC 250 as well as better ground clearance. I am willing to bet no one will mention this in a review because the 200 and 300 don't look ''retro''


LC 250 (Prado)

LC200

LC300

 

[Supra Turbo]

I hear Toyota is working on the new RAV4 for 2025. Since it is easier to bring less models to the US I guess they could introduce this as "the next generation 4Runner has finally arrived".


View attachment 3392671

I am sure many Toyota 4Runner wannabe's are in the moon right now as it will have a lower MSRP...

Wonder what the 4Runner crowd would say...

 

[Romer]

Moderator Statement:
We are starting to be attack mode here in tech which is not allowed

You don't think this is a Land Cruiser that it is Prado, 4 runner or other. Fine. you can say that, but don't disparage those who don't agree. Telling people they are wrong or to wake up dude is pretty close to the line and I am officially stating to the members here to treat each other with civility and allow others to have their opinions. Some of you are getting a bit badgering with your opinions. As a legal note, Only Toyota gets to decide and name it a Land Cruiser or not. Those that disagree are expressing their opinion, but have no legal standing since they don't own the name or the Toyota company.

You are welcome to your opinion. You can state your opinion, but you can't badger others that your opinion is correct

Please don't make me put my drink down, get out of my chair and moderate this thread

 

[Idaho Savage]

Savage, did you read up and know why the 911 is being discussed?

Respectfully, the market for high end cars where 911s live hasn't bloated to include mainstream soccer moms, adventure dads, overland mall crawling tech bros and everyone in between. Yes, Mr T could have stuck to his guns with an 80 platform and ignored those massive submarkets but why? It's a for profit business subject to forces of demand. Any market that goes from niche to mass market often endures the same dilution of brands and products. Remember late 80's North Face? Filson? Vuarnet? How about Land Rover? Harley?

Demand and marketing are convergent, not casual. Contrary to popular understanding, half of marketing is understanding and delivering what the market demands, not just making them want something.

Edit: Steps down from soap box, dusts off shoulders, returns to garage.

 

[40Man]

Don't think so, I owned a 2004 Sequoia and it was the best of the generations and was bullet proof.
And if you want to split hairs you spelled Sequoia wrong....I am done with this conversation thank you, and I still
love my Toyota SUVs. I also drive a BMW for fun

i tried to like the early Sequoia, but hates the 4 speed drivetrain. 05 is when it really came together. Very good truck that lost it's way, but the new version is on the right track.

 

[aedgington]

It was mentioned earlier, but kind of got lost, is that smaller/cheaper isn't a bad thing. Every successive iteration of any model practically demands that it gets bigger and techier to justify it's existence... and that usually comes with a price hike. My first LX was 2 years old and cost $37K. I remember when basic SR5 4Runners at the auction were $19.5. We'd put running boards and roof racks on them and go wholesale them for $21.5.

The cachet of the badge doesn't bother me. Let everyone buy one. If anything, a smaller, cheaper Land Cruiser is just winding the clock back a couple of generations. The only thing that bothers me -- and remains to be seen -- is if the value of the name is being diluted. We all know the 25 year mission statement. We hang our hats on it and will tell anyone who will listen and, frankly, it's been close to true with the 100 series with notable failures (brake booster, ahc, etc) cropping up at the 20 year/200K mark give or take. My real question is only this: will this new LC live up to that legacy? Because if it doesn't, that's the only disservice Toyota is really doing the brand.

 

[Idaho Savage]

It was mentioned earlier, but kind of got lost, is that smaller/cheaper isn't a bad thing. Every successive iteration of any model practically demands that it gets bigger and techier to justify it's existence... and that usually comes with a price hike. My first LX was 2 years old and cost $37K. I remember when basic SR5 4Runners at the auction were $19.5. We'd put running boards and roof racks on them and go wholesale them for $21.5.

The cachet of the badge doesn't bother me. Let everyone buy one. If anything, a smaller, cheaper Land Cruiser is just winding the clock back a couple of generations. The only thing that bothers me -- and remains to be seen -- is if the value of the name is being diluted. We all know the 25 year mission statement. We hang our hats on it and will tell anyone who will listen and, frankly, it's been close to true with the 100 series with notable failures (brake booster, ahc, etc) cropping up at the 20 year/200K mark give or take. My real question is only this: will this new LC live up to that legacy? Because if it doesn't, that's the only disservice Toyota is really doing the brand.

Nailed it. To me the only non negotiable component of an LC is reliability beyond reasonable expectations.

 

[Bill92]

Where's all the folks that said they wanted a bare-bones, basic version of a Land Cruiser? Seems like this would appeal to them because of the cloth seats, simple body design, no third row, rear locker, etc...

Yes, but does that mean lighter duty, smaller interior, and my personal favorite.... no drop tailgate? NO! Without a tailgate the least they could do is a roll down window like the 4runner has...

 

[Bill92]

Also why does everyone always confuse "boxy" to mean that it has weird lines, sharp corners and generally looks like a lego set... all the SW LC from 55-300 series all did a great job of having a boxy silouette while still having roundish edges and muted styling. That is the essence of practicality in my eyes. The prado went from being a werid amorphous blob to something out of a transformers movie.

 

[Bill92]

My opinion as a new to me 200 series owner:
•The new LC 250 isn’t meant to replace what we’ve come to know as the LC.
•Toyota is going after quantity rather than class or prestige.
•Toyota likely plans for many customers to make this a parts counter build while signing the paperwork on day one. They sell the vehicle, sell the accessories for the vehicle, and the service department makes money for installing the parts.
•The ride height was intentionally left low to sell TRD branded lift kits for those who don’t care about MPG, see above bullet point.
•I wouldn’t be one bit surprised to see a TRD Pro model for the ‘25 model year as a follow up to the first editions. TRD Pro gets 3.4 v6tt with increased ride height and suspension travel. Think Bronco Raptor but not as aggressive. They will need a halo suv and what better way to keep excitement than power and suspension.

What baffles me though:
•Where will the 4R fit in?
•Why not the 4R get the turbo 4 cyl., LC get the v6tt, the GX the v6tt with optional hybrid at lower power levels than the Sequoia and the LX600 get the v6tt hybrid as standard with higher output than the Sequoia?
•I can’t be the only one who doesn’t want the added weight or complexity of the hybrid system for a vehicle designed as an off-roader.
•That battery and raised floor of the cargo area sure eats up a lot of room that off-roaders could use for storage of useful equipment. Again see above bullet point.

Sadly the hybrid is becoming non optional due to EPA regulations. A manufacturer's entire fleet must hit certain numbers and the only way to do it is force hybrids on us. The plus side of the hybrid for offroaders is the ability to run refrigerators and other electronics. But I agree we should have options.