Build The "Red Rocket" Troopy

[robmobile73]

Here she lays
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Most of the time I'm all for vigilante justice when it is warranted. At first glance I thought this was a totally warranted situation for it but after seeing how the windshield frame was warped/dented in a couple of places I find myself more on the fence. I should have grabbed the windsheild before and beat the frame in or out where it might not have been totally flat such as @coldtaco mentioned. I also called around to other glass shops and after asking about thier warranty policy they all dont cover glass that the customer provides even if its all OEM stuff. The guy installed the other glass I had brought there for free and didn't charge me for his entire day of wasted labor. I feel like it was a mutally lose-lose situation for the both of us. Maybe I'm still just being too forgiving? Don't really know what the industry usual is for something like this.

Yea it wasnt disclosed to me but as mentioned above, apparently thats just industry standard to not cover unless the glass shop got it from their supplier?

He said "I'm not messing with this Jap bullsh!t no more, tried to get it in all day and then it broke on me. Not touching it again"

Yup, keeping my head up is about all I can do in this situation. I spent roughly 3 hours today calling all of the autoglass shops in a 2 hour radius of me trying to find anyone who could source a windsheild for this thing, either by defintion or cross referencing part numbers in their systems. No one could come up with anything, and all said they would be happy to try installing mine again but would offer no warranty on glass they themselves didnt source. I'm at somewhat of a Catch-22 it feels like.

thank you for this wealth of information. If I do go down the route of gambling with another glass shop, I'll be printing this out and giving it to them. If the glass guys are breaking it, I think it would be foolish for me to try and even think about installing it on my own.

Spent around 2 hours today doing this after reading your suggestion, thanks for the idea. Wish I would have thought of that sooner. There werent too many places but definetly some that would have not helped installing an apparently already diffucult to install windshield. Had to touch up the paint after aswell, as alot of the paint got all messed up while bashing it.

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Spent some of the other time today putting some other trim back on here and there, along with the hood, new hood release cable, etc etc.
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and sat in the drivers seat just wishing I could drive it even though this sucks, its always important to remind myself that I'm beyond lucky for this to be my biggest problem in my life at the moment. I mean I'm sitting in my troopy looking at a Dyna and a old Willy's covered up by a tarp. A free FJ60 and Plymouth Volare are to my right. I'm much more fortunate than many others out there.
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1 windshield from Partsouq or really anywhere overseas comes out to roughly $700... Yea nope, not happening. The US dealers which for some reason have it, were having some pretty crazy markdowns ontop of that 25% off sitewide deal. Figured roughly $220 for a windshield that costs $409 usually ontop of no shipping cost is pretty hard to beat. Thats cheaper than most windshields in general, let alone 70 series OEM in America. I bought one for me and one for @svsisu who will pick it up from our shop in Wilmington at somepoint. We both figured it was too good of a deal to pass up I would have bought 2 for myself personally but dont have that kind of money on me right now to do so sadly.
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Current gameplan is to take it to this super nice repuatable classic car glass shop and see if they can work their magic and get it in place. If this next windshield breaks then I'll just say F* it and throw a broken one in with a bunch of caulk everywhere to keep it water and wind tight. I'm not letting something as stupid and idiotic as this keep me from driving this thing after all this time, work, and money I have put into it in order to get it back on the road.

J-There are shops in the US that up armor toyota LC's for use by various government agencies overseas. LC's get imported by US Gov and sent to these shops and sent back out overseas. 5 years ago I had a contact at one of these places in between Wilmington and Boone. I was parked outside in my BJ73 admiring several acres with several dozen 79 series awaiting bulletproof glass etc. Someone came out to see what I was doing and we struck up a friendly conversation. Legally anything they remove in the installation of bulletproof glass they have to put in a dumpster and aren't allowed to resale. (but perhaps the can allow you to get something from the dumpster. I was told at the time they throw away all of the windshields and seals) I no longer have the contact and am 3+ hours away from the company. I can give you a Pin drop if you want to try to go by there and ask. Alot of discretion and knowing how to approach things here. It's maybe 40 min. off of I74 between Wilmington and Boone. I won't post it public. @onur once posted about being aware of such businesses. Perhaps someone in the comunity has some current knowledge.

 

[robmobile73]

My guess is that there’s not many old school glass guys out there, so putting this glass in is not there cup of tea.
I would try to put it in myself before I let someone else break it.
Obviously I have never done a troppy but have done old school glass before with great success. Slow an easy with one person inside and one out.
Joe said he can do them by myself. With help I think you can do it.

Sounds like the first guy was pretty fair about the whole thing now that I have heard all the details.
I’m all about being fair !

I'm going to have to do a windshield job in my BJ73 some time in the next 2 years when I buy a new frame and seal as part of my restore. Does the simple old school "soapy rope trick" not work to install a 70 series windshield?

 

[robmobile73]

Dude like those DOnut guys on youtube say Cars are pain. There is always car drama!

Going through all my glass drama on my samurai, I think Glass shops now dont usually deal with window gaskets on cars anymore because I think most vehicles the glass is glued in. Dude I just got word yesterday that they got my windshield finally got installed on the samurai frame. Its been almost 6 weeks that they have had it. Eastern auto glass will not be doing my windshield on the 55 I can tell you that much. They didn't get my OEM Suzuki glass in because they were "scared they would brake it" so they cut their own glass then told me "your glass was better quality than ours". The thing is they could have ground down my glass I would think? IDK the whole thing was a nightmare. The kicker is I still don't know what the price is. My mother in law is picking it up for me today. She is an angel.

My plan was to go lexan if they could not get glass installed. like @thatcabledude said above.

Hey man looking forward to your visit to the OBX!

I'm asking this in a second place. I the old school "soapy rope trick" used to install simple old rubber gasket windshields a lost art that young folk doing the work don't know anymore?

 

[robmobile73]

If it was mine and the goal was to use and enjoy it and not make a show car.... I would go around that gap between the body and the pop top with some dense spray foam. Then trim it back with a knife so it just fills the gap. Then cover with silicone RTV. Then a paintbrush with the same color paint to match blend in.

I got a dislike on the RTV and silicone so question: What size gap is silkaflex 241(sp?) capable of filling and how is the adhesion compared to RTV? They used to have a competition every year at the Georgetown, SC wood boat show: They gave you a supply of wood and all the silkaflex you wanted to build a rowboat in a set time (less than 8 hours). Goal was to promote their product as a filler and adhesive. I've never used it, but I know it's good stuff.........Can you seperate parts sealed with 241 like you can with RTV or is it permanent?

 

[prwillard2]

I'm asking this in a second place. I the old school "soapy rope trick" used to install simple old rubber gasket windshields a lost art that young folk doing the work don't know anymore?

It works, this is exactly how I installed mine.

Took 2 people, a lot of swearing, and a lot of hoping I wasn't going to break the windshield

 

[cruiserinsanity]

J-There are shops in the US that up armor toyota LC's for use by various government agencies overseas. LC's get imported by US Gov and sent to these shops and sent back out overseas. 5 years ago I had a contact at one of these places in between Wilmington and Boone. I was parked outside in my BJ73 admiring several acres with several dozen 79 series awaiting bulletproof glass etc. Someone came out to see what I was doing and we struck up a friendly conversation. Legally anything they remove in the installation of bulletproof glass they have to put in a dumpster and aren't allowed to resale. (but perhaps the can allow you to get something from the dumpster. I was told at the time they throw away all of the windshields and seals) I no longer have the contact and am 3+ hours away from the company. I can give you a Pin drop if you want to try to go by there and ask. Alot of discretion and knowing how to approach things here. It's maybe 40 min. off of I74 between Wilmington and Boone. I won't post it public. @onur once posted about being aware of such businesses. Perhaps someone in the comunity has some current knowledge.

The doors that are now on the Red Rocket came from such a facility in Auburn, Alabama, MDT Armor. Unfortunately, those were appropriated several years ago when they were armoring HZJ79s for use in Africa and the Middle East, now they are armoring a fraction of the amount of vehicles that they were and are only using Hiluxs now. The dude who appropriated the doors died of a heart attack and I bought them from his widow.

I don’t know about other facilities but that’s the goings-on that I know of at the local one.

Home - MDT Armor

Battle Proven Armored Vehicles MDT Armor provides armored vehicles for military, law enforcement and civilian use worldwide. MDT armors Commercial off the Shelf (COTS) vehicles to various armor levels, up to NIJ Level IV, STANAG Level 3 and CEN B7. MDT caters to the customer’s specific needs in...

mdt-armor.com

 

[Broski]

I'm going to have to do a windshield job in my BJ73 some time in the next 2 years when I buy a new frame and seal as part of my restore. Does the simple old school "soapy rope trick" not work to install a 70 series windshield?

^^^ This

 

[RHINO]

Well the winshield is big enough to glue it without any mod to the actual frame. That is what I did, broke one and paid 600$ for a new one. Was not interested to try the gasket again. In Australia, they seem to have a bigger windshield because newer model are glued.

Are you saying you got the later part so it's a bigger glass ? Cause thats excactly what I have been thinking and want to get some real measurements of the newer glass.

 

[RHINO]

I'm going to have to do a windshield job in my BJ73 some time in the next 2 years when I buy a new frame and seal as part of my restore. Does the simple old school "soapy rope trick" not work to install a 70 series windshield?

It does, but the very square corners were harder than other glass I've done. Just need to take your time and not slap it too hard till its all in.

 

[coldtaco]

Is the windshield too big?

 

[lacalvette]

Are you saying you got the later part so it's a bigger glass ? Cause thats excactly what I have been thinking and want to get some real measurements of the newer glass.

No no, I wish we could have one if it exist. The standard windshield for 70 serie hard top is the one I used. Just big enough to glue it. Bought a brand new OEM weatherstrip, try to install it on the windshield, couldn't affort another glass so plan changed.
Not perfect, should have use masking tape at minimum, but it does the job. Have to say that I'm not sure how much urethane will need to be remove to change the glass
But the frame is not modified.

 

[svsisu]

I got a dislike on the RTV and silicone so question: What size gap is silkaflex 241(sp?) capable of filling and how is the adhesion compared to RTV? They used to have a competition every year at the Georgetown, SC wood boat show: They gave you a supply of wood and all the silkaflex you wanted to build a rowboat in a set time (less than 8 hours). Goal was to promote their product as a filler and adhesive. I've never used it, but I know it's good stuff.........Can you seperate parts sealed with 241 like you can with RTV or is it permanent?

The main reason for my dislike for RTV and silicone caulks are the silicone contamination causd to any surface they come in contact with. You can basically forget about ever painting that area without stripping it down to bare metal, and even then you run risk of having left some behind or grinding it into the substrate; obviously it is not paintable if you wanted to paint over it. Also, RTV contains acetic acid (for the curing process) which causes corrosion on bare metal. There are some very strong RTV/silicone caulks but in general the "store" brands are not very adhesive (one of the reasons RTV is used as a gasket maker) and fail under relatively low elongation compared to the Sikaflex products. GE makes a high adhesive construction grade silicone (silproof line, I think?) but I don't think it would work in this application. To add to that, the outer skin of RTV is not that hard.

Sikaflex 221 (what was used) is a moisture cured urethane, is "easily" tooled using mineral spirits or their proprietary stuff before it sets up, and once cured it can be sanded and painted. It is a stronger adhesive and is fairly hard once cured, yet has a higher coefficient of elongation before failing. I'm not sure what the gap filling limitations are, but filling a 1/4" gap is not a problem. Beyond that I would probably use a closed cell foam backer rod, or apply it in multiple layers; it will adhere to itself. As it is moisture cured, the thicker the bead, the longer it will take to fully cure. Parts can be separated when sealed with it, but it may take some mechanical help and would be difficult. If one wants to use Sikaflex as a sealant/adhesive between two parts that will need to be taken apart I would recommend Sikaflex 291. Similar in all aspects, but less adhesive and easier to disassemble things. Sikaflex 291 is my go to adhesive/sealant, and comes in a number of useful colors- black, white, grey etc. 3M's 4200 and 5200 are similar products (moisture cured urethanes), but more expensive and 5200 should never be used on components that you want to take apart.

*Edit- Every product/sealer has it's application, I just don't think RTV and expandable spray foam would be right for the problem that was experienced. Fortunately he sorted it out by closing the gaps physically with ratchet straps, etc

 

[prwillard2]

The main reason for my dislike for RTV and silicone caulks are the silicone contamination causd to any surface they come in contact with. You can basically forget about ever painting that area without stripping it down to bare metal, and even then you run risk of having left some behind or grinding it into the substrate; obviously it is not paintable if you wanted to paint over it. Also, RTV contains acetic acid (for the curing process) which causes corrosion on bare metal. There are some very strong RTV/silicone caulks but in general the "store" brands are not very adhesive (one of the reasons RTV is used as a gasket maker) and fail under relatively low elongation compared to the Sikaflex products. GE makes a high adhesive construction grade silicone (silproof line, I think?) but I don't think it would work in this application. To add to that, the outer skin of RTV is not that hard.

Sikaflex 221 (what was used) is a moisture cured urethane, is "easily" tooled using mineral spirits or their proprietary stuff before it sets up, and once cured it can be sanded and painted. It is a stronger adhesive and is fairly hard once cured, yet has a higher coefficient of elongation before failing. I'm not sure what the gap filling limitations are, but filling a 1/4" gap is not a problem. Beyond that I would probably use a closed cell foam backer rod, or apply it in multiple layers; it will adhere to itself. As it is moisture cured, the thicker the bead, the longer it will take to fully cure. Parts can be separated when sealed with it, but it may take some mechanical help and would be difficult. If one wants to use Sikaflex as a sealant/adhesive between two parts that will need to be taken apart I would recommend Sikaflex 291. Similar in all aspects, but less adhesive and easier to disassemble things. Sikaflex 291 is my go to adhesive/sealant, and comes in a number of useful colors- black, white, grey etc. 3M's 4200 and 5200 are similar products (moisture cured urethanes), but more expensive and 5200 should never be used on components that you want to take apart.

*Edit- Every product/sealer has it's application, I just don't think RTV and expandable spray foam would be right for the problem that was experienced. Fortunately he sorted it out by closing the gaps physically with ratchet straps, etc

Mind blown from all the technical data

 

[Felde]

In general, Sika products come in two product classes: 'glue' and 'chaulk'.
Sikaflex 221 is a chaulk, intended as a flexible layer between construction components.You can cut it and you can remove it again (I used it e.g. to fit the windows frames to the FRP Top) . Important: Classical Sikaflex 221 is not UV stable, so seams should be covered by the (impermeable) construction components. There is a UV version available.
Sika 291 is a glue. Great for body components. But it will never come off again! It's also very less flexible and is intended to be applied in thin layers. Not suitable for windshield!
Sika also has special products for special purposes. For windshields, this is Sikaflex 265 or, special for repairs: Sikaflex 271.
Check out their US website for more advice: Transportation - https://usa.sika.com/en/industry/transportation.html
On windshield (and also solarpanels) it is important to apply a rather thick beat, which can absorb movements and different thermal expansion.
As with every chemical bonding, correct preparing of the surface is essential. On painted surfaces it is important that the paint sticks well (as the bonding actually sticks to the paint only, no to the metal) and does not emit any solvents any more.
Good Luck Ralf

 

[svsisu]

Sika 291 is a glue. Great for body components. But it will never come off again! It's also very less flexible and is intended to be applied in thin layers. Not suitable for windshield!

I'm not sure what your experience with Sika 291 is, but your statement about it not coming off again is patently untrue. We were not discussing installing a windshield, but a roof modification and adhering a pop top to the metal roof; body components as you say. And even then, the 291 was not the caulk in question- it was between RTV silicone or Sika 221.

I would not, and did not recommend using 291 as a window adhesive, but it is one of the best all around sealant/adhesives I have worked with on hundreds of personal installations of metal to metal or metal to fiberglass applications.

 

[bj70bc]

@Felde... do you really want to argue with ^^ #master of the caulk.... @svsisu

 

[bj70bc]

 

[Felde]

OK, Ok, I retreat..

 

[Tennessee Jed]

3200 and 5200 rule the roost in the sailing world. They're basically the generic terms for "semi permanent" and "never ever coming apart". Years of salt spray and freeze/thaw cycles mean nothing to 5200 - choose with care.

 

[theglobb]

As promised, here are some fall pics

Not much fall in this one, just pretty western TN.

Went wheeling this weekend with a big group of my buds. Towed my free Willys with my free 60 series haha. Blew the front differential up on the Willys, sounded like I stripped out the ring gear. When I first got it the spider gears in the front were blown up into pieces, and all of the shrapnel chewed up the ring gear... so I smoothed it out with an angle grinder flap disc and threw it back together lol. Good thing I don't ever really drive it, especially in 4WD. I'll buy a used third member at some point and slap it in. The 60 decided to blow a transfer case output seal, spewing gear oil everywhere. Had to fill it up with a quart every 40 miles... talk about annoying.

Also ran into @onemanarmy out on the trails totally by chance, my POS Jeep had a temporary issue on the trails, and he just happened to drive by. Was nice to meet face to face, even though it wasn't for long

Finally got to test out my great friend's 1JZ-swapped 4Runner. It did great after the solid axle swap we did to it last April.



I got back home late last night (due to my repeated stops having to fill up with gear oil over and over again) and went to sleep. Woke up in the morning to this pleasant surprise!


Well, it served me well. $180 for a carport that held up since March. Did all of the troopy welding repair underneath it, really can't complain. Who knows how much longer it would have lasted if this crazy snowstorm didn't come through here last night. The Red Rocket has now been reduced to being protected by a measly tarp, no match for my high-end top-of-the-line carport. Hopefully will come into some money sooner than later to buy the CORRECT windshield with and not have to worry about tarping it, and also being able to drive it around and all would be nice too.

My beater pickup got real loud and smelly last week, crawled underneath and the muffler had passed away. Lucky for me, I found this other used muffler in the woods behind my house a couple months back. SCORE! The diameter of the pipe and everything was the same. It was divine intervention, meant to be. After a bit of flux core welding, the beater truck is now quiet again.

And check out this gate I made at work from scratch. It was for the 2nd-oldest house in Blowing Rock, NC. Personally not my cup of tea, but it was cool to make regardless.

I'll be back whenever I can afford another windshield. Until then, keep arguing about caulk