The Car Care Nut talks UR V8 blown head gaskets (1 Viewer)

[JPRS]

They likely would have charged you for a new gallon of coolant as part of the job. Check your invoice (if you still have it), you might see a line item for a gallon of SLLC.

For what it's worth, my invoice from the dealer for the water pump replacement says they charged me for a "drain and bleed of the coolant as necessary" and then they charged me for 3 gallons of coolant (SLLC). This seems to indicate they drained most of it.

 

[PDoyle]

FYI
Here is the ad from the Prestone antifreeze website-
restone 50/50 Prediluted Antifreeze/Coolant for Toyota vehicles is specially formulated for use in Toyota®, Lexus®, and Scion® vehicles**. Prestone, the #1 Branded Engine Protection*, fights the spread of corrosion, helping a vehicle? s cooling system run more efficiently and last longer.

A quick google search....
Toyota recommends changing the coolant in a Toyota vehicle every 30,000 miles or two years. However, the frequency of coolant changes can vary depending on the model and type of coolant used:

• Pink coolant
  The factory-filled pink coolant can last up to 100,000 miles or 10 years, and then needs to be changed every 60,000 miles or five years.
  
  
  
• Red coolant
  The red coolant has a shorter life than the pink coolant and needs to be changed every 30,000 miles or two years.
  
  
  
  

 

[2021 LC200]

Engineer here, not that it makes me any smarter but curious what statistics are on these failures. I have 190,000 on my LC200 and if the failure rate is less than 5% at that higher mileage then no need to lose sleep. Check PH and move on. I fall into this trap of “common issues” with engines on Youtube does not mean common issues with engines in general.

Wish there was a database somewhere. Absolutely certain Toyota knows but does not make public.

Finally, overheating definitely creates leaking gaskets and not necessarily immediately. LC200 do have common radiator issues (mine included) where you need to shut down immediately. If momma drive home from soccer practice while overheated that could definitely create this issue down the road but no way of knowing if that is root cause in these failures…

Masters in Mech Eng here and agree we are not always right. Primarily because we can have known unknowns or unkown unknowns to deal with and no doubt some believes which needs reconsideration at times.

For this one my assessment is also that overheating (or multiple overheating events) is the main root cause of HG failures. The known radiator issue the main contributing factor. Also the pump housing gasket leaks are potentially related to the same and not necessarily a bad design. Per Teckis300, I can see other scenarios (like low octane fuel and engine knock), however not coolant pH. The HG is stainless steel + viton which are quite fine dealing with lower pH coolant. In fact viton is used in real acidic pH 2 to 3 environments. As such the CCN in my opinion is of on the wrong angle and this thread has evolved into coolant change discussions, which itself are fine, perhaps entertaining, yet it does not address the root cause.

Regarding statistics, I also agree these examples or even tens of examples do not reveal a 3UR-FE issue. There are a million+ of 3UR-FE’s on the road since around 2008 just in the US between the LC and LX 200’s, Sequoia’s and Tundra’s and this issue is not widely raised or discussed.

So all in all my take is to add coolant changes (just the radiator for simplicity) to my maintenance approach (every 50k is probably fine) and am considering something like the ultra gauge which allows alarms on coolant and transmission temps, useful for towing and a good way to timely shutdown an engine in the early process of overheating.

Also seems those owning pre 2018 models with the old radiator could opt to do a preventative change. Or just pop the hood say at least once a month and watch for the crack and any coolant leaks.

 

[Nothinghead]

Are we still doing this here?

2017 100,000 miles, original radiator and likely original coolant:

 

[mikonos25]

Masters in Mech Eng here and agree we are not always right. Primarily because we can have known unknowns or unkown unknowns to deal with and no doubt some believes which needs reconsideration at times.

For this one my assessment is also that overheating (or multiple overheating events) is the main root cause of HG failures. The known radiator issue the main contributing factor. Also the pump housing gasket leaks are potentially related to the same and not necessarily a bad design. Per Teckis300, I can see other scenarios (like low octane fuel and engine knock), however not coolant pH. The HG is stainless steel + viton which are quite fine dealing with lower pH coolant. In fact viton is used in real acidic pH 2 to 3 environments. As such the CCN in my opinion is of on the wrong angle and this thread has evolved into coolant change discussions, which itself are fine, perhaps entertaining, yet it does not address the root cause.

Regarding statistics, I also agree these examples or even tens of examples do not reveal a 3UR-FE issue. There are a million+ of 3UR-FE’s on the road since around 2008 just in the US between the LC and LX 200’s, Sequoia’s and Tundra’s and this issue is not widely raised or discussed.

So all in all my take is to add coolant changes (just the radiator for simplicity) to my maintenance approach (every 50k is probably fine) and am considering something like the ultra gauge which allows alarms on coolant and transmission temps, useful for towing and a good way to timely shutdown an engine in the early process of overheating.

Also seems those owning pre 2018 models with the old radiator could opt to do a preventative change. Or just pop the hood say at least once a month and watch for the crack and any coolant leaks.

Excellent summary and appreciate the PH perspective as you noted the materials are designed for that. Being an expert mechanic doesn’t make you a design or materials expert. Doing a statistical sample on trucks in your small shop is not good statistics either. On balance I think these youtube channels are great but need to not rely on them as be-all, end-all in terms of broad conclusions

 

[mikonos25]

CCN has another video where the 2UZ head gasket failed due to the same issue.

Lesson being change your fluids.

I would argue it rarely happens on a 2UZ because timing belt jobs force regular coolant changes. 3URs are ignored by most owners.

2UZ has a cast iron block, much less susceptible to warping and failure

 

[mikonos25]

Definitely your personal opinion.

The Car Care Nut is probably one of the most informational mechanics out there on YouTube. He's a master Toyota mechanic and while we each need to make our own decisions on what to do/not do on our own vehicles, I'm more likely to take the advice of a guy who is a master Toyota mechanic than some random person on the internet.

Is he monetizing his knowledge for an extra revenue stream via YouTube - of course!
Does that make him a bad person - not at all!

Yes expert mechanic, not expert statistician or engine/materials design engineer. Toyota has millions of man hours of development as intellectual property support of design choices. For this guy to extrapolate his limited sample of cars to the entire installed base of 3UR FE engines as well as indicating the issue is acidic coolant is speculation at best. Far more likely the engine was overheated at some point.

 

[mikonos25]

To make any $$ on youtube you need people to watch so many hours of your videos .... hence the rambling of youtubers.


HIs opinion was the antifreeze acidity ate the head gasket.

Then his advice was the 100k interval for anti freeze change was too long and 50k would be better.

Just like his prior opinion of changing oil every 10k was too long from the other engines that broke down and he recommended every 5k.

Nothing with real evidence, seems to just cut the maintenance interval in 1/2.

As someone posted earlier be nice to know the acidity levels at various mileages after coolant changes 25k, 50k, 75k and 100k... and how the vehicle was used.
This would provide data for a more accurate assessment of the maintenance interval needed.

I think I have one of the old school testers looks like a turkey baster with a meter, ..what does that read?

Specific gravity which correlates with boiling point. More of an indication of how diluted the coolant is. I like your suggestion of data to support any conclusions. There are other engineers posting that the gasket material is insensitive to PH so who knows. 1/2 the intervals and never overheat it. I learned that on aluminum block BMW. Don’t limp home at high temperatures!

 

[mikonos25]

Do these international variants use 3URs?

No. It’s rare outside US

 

[mikonos25]

all of these problems could be made to go away if Toyota would have learned a bit from US light truck makers like Gm, and made the block cast iron, and the head aluminum.

It is in the 2UZFE

 

[mceagle555]

Yes expert mechanic, not expert statistician or engine/materials design engineer. Toyota has millions of man hours of development as intellectual property support of design choices. For this guy to extrapolate his limited sample of cars to the entire installed base of 3UR FE engines as well as indicating the issue is acidic coolant is speculation at best. Far more likely the engine was overheated at some point.

First...."master mechanic" or "master technician" is a defined term in the auto-service world. You have to reach certain levels of training and time spent.

Second... I'll still trust CCN more than someone with 7 total posts on IH8MUD, 6 of which happen to be back-to-back in this thread.

 

[2021 LC200]

First...."master mechanic" or "master technician" is a defined term in the auto-service world. You have to reach certain levels of training and time spent.

Second... I'll still trust CCN more than someone with 7 total posts on IH8MUD, 6 of which happen to be back-to-back in this thread.

Just curious, what level education did you reach?

And what is your advice given the CCN video?

 

[mceagle555]

Just curious, what level education did you reach?

And what is your advice given the CCN video?

I'm not an auto mechanic, but been around enough shops to know there are different levels of technicians. Simply saying CCN is not a fly-by-night operation. There are numerous reports from the IH8MUD community of him offering his wisdom to them at no cost, simply because he loves what he does. Just get tired of people tearing down obviously good-hearted people online, especially when their low post-count indicates they aren't an engaged member of the IH8MUD community.

As far as my advice on the CCN video - at the end of the day we're talking about coolant, which can be a pretty caustic fluid. Think about how many threads there are encoring you to "replace your heater-T's" and them crumbling when you do so. If you drive 12,500 miles a year and you adjust your coolant change to every 50k miles instead of every 100k miles, we're talking about less than $100 in maintenance if done via DIY. (My local Toyota dealer sells the pink cap coolant for ~$20/gallon)

Fluids (oil, coolant, transmission, differentials, AHC) are some of the easiest preventative maintenance you can do. An extra $100 every 4 years for peace of mind makes sense to me.

 

[weaponoffreedom]

right change your coolant

 

[PDoyle]

Looking a little deeper, the next weak link would be the rubber hoses in the cooling and heat system.
I can't find a good hose diagram and googling really only gets me kits from one place, but there seems to be a quite a few hoses.

HPS Black Reinforced Silicone Radiator + Heater Hose Kit Coolant Toyota 08-16 Land Cruiser 5.7L V8

Toyota 08-16 Land Cruiser 5.7L V8 HPS Black High Temp Reinforced Silicone Radiator + Heater Hose Kit Coolant replace stock OEM rubber hoses with premium quality silicone and delivers race proven performance which can withstand high boost and high temperature during competition or daily driving

hpsperformanceproducts.com

 

[gasman4u]

Looking a little deeper, the next weak link would be the rubber hoses in the cooling and heat system.
I can't find a good hose diagram and googling really only gets me kits from one place, but there seems to be a quite a few hoses.

HPS Black Reinforced Silicone Radiator + Heater Hose Kit Coolant Toyota 08-16 Land Cruiser 5.7L V8

Toyota 08-16 Land Cruiser 5.7L V8 HPS Black High Temp Reinforced Silicone Radiator + Heater Hose Kit Coolant replace stock OEM rubber hoses with premium quality silicone and delivers race proven performance which can withstand high boost and high temperature during competition or daily driving

hpsperformanceproducts.com

Apparently silicone hoses have “10-15 times the water permeability of rubber hoses….” I did not know this. But makes me leery of veering from OEM in a DD.

EDIT: mistype "veering" into "hanging" for some reason. fat fingers on a phone.

 

[weaponoffreedom]

Apparently silicone hoses have “10-15 times the water permeability of rubber hoses….” I did not know this. But makes me leery of hanging from OEM in a DD.

Seems a bit ridiculous to me. Why even buy these hoses?

 

[sleepycruiser]

So technically the valley plate leak is a good thing for the HG due to losing and adding coolant? Got it.

 

[CanBruiser]

I just purchased a 2008 with 135k on it. The dealer told me the radiator was replaced, but upon a closer look I have the hairline crack starting in the typical spot (Radiator replacement also wasn't shown on service history). I wasn't happy to notice this at first, but after reading through this thread I think it's blessing in disguise. I am assuming it's the original rad and alot less likely the engine was overheated due to rad failure by a previous owner now.

 

[rexington14]

I just purchased a 2008 with 135k on it. The dealer told me the radiator was replaced, but upon a closer look I have the hairline crack starting in the typical spot (Radiator replacement also wasn't shown on service history). I wasn't happy to notice this at first, but after reading through this thread I think it's blessing in disguise. I am assuming it's the original rad and alot less likely the engine was overheated due to rad failure by a previous owner now.

Maybe it was replaced earlier with another defective radiator? Anyways, has the coolant ever been changed?