The Car Care Nut talks UR V8 blown head gaskets (4 Viewers)

[2021 LC200]

Head Gaskets can fail due to a variety of reasons, overheating the main one. Having tens of reports on 3UR-FE engines blowing a head gasket in Toyota enthusiast forums does not mean there is a fundamental issue given the number on the road in Sequoia's, Tundra's, LX and LC's including in the Middle East.

While I like the CCN, do not forget he is there to do maintenance on these vehicles and so maintaining them well and having high mileage examples around is down his street. In addition, the repair route he would suggest is going to be a low risk, so he does not have to redo at great personal expense and time. It is informative, yet also take it with a grain of salt.

 

[weaponoffreedom]

In my opinion v8s last longer because they have to work less to do the same thing

I think there is merit to this opinion, but 4 Cylinders under more negative HP per lbs or weight last just as long.

I believe you may be misunderstanding the proposed mode of failure. Toyota HG's have an elastomer coating on both sides literally engineered and put in place to help seal water passages. This coating is eaten away at by old antifreeze eventually resulting in a small breach into a cylinder, where a combustion <-> water leak manifests and due to resulting exposure to 4000+ degree combustion gases in a (now open) circulating system, further problems develop.

Says CCN? 4000 degrees huh, pretty hot.

 

[2021 LC200]

I believe you may be misunderstanding the proposed mode of failure. Toyota HG's have an elastomer coating on both sides literally engineered and put in place to help seal water passages. This coating is eaten away at by old antifreeze eventually resulting in a small breach into a cylinder, where a combustion <-> water leak manifests and due to resulting exposure to 4000+ degree combustion gases in a (now open) circulating system, further problems develop.

We are saying that there is nothing wrong with the 3UR-FE or the gasket materials used and the suggested failure mode of some lower pH coolant makes no sense as there is no widely reported issue with 3UR-FE head gaskets or that of other Toyota engines. That is also based on the expectation/assumption that most owners never change coolant in Toyota's.

The issues encountered are more likely a function of an overheating or several overheating events until a coolant system repair was performed. At that point the clock starts ticking on a HG failure.

Having a scan gauge II (without alarm) or a large scan gauge III (with alarm) or a small ultragauge (with alarm capability, the one I may get for towing as well) could be a good thing to prevent a severe overheating event. Or a water gauge sensor and gauge with alarm like the one on Amazon, be it that is more modification of the factory setup then I think there is value in doing so.

Universal 52mm Water Temperature Gauge 100-300F

 

[weaponoffreedom]

We are saying that there is nothing wrong with the 3UR-FE or the gasket materials used and the suggested failure mode of some lower pH coolant makes no sense as there is no widely reported issue with 3UR-FE head gaskets or that of other Toyota engines. That is also based on the expectation/assumption that most owners never change coolant in Toyota's.

The issues encountered are more likely a function of an overheating or several overheating events until a coolant system repair was performed. At that point the clock starts ticking on a HG failure.

Having a scan gauge II (without alarm) or a large scan gauge III (with alarm) or a small ultragauge (with alarm capability, the one I may get for towing as well) could be a good thing to prevent a severe overheating event. Or a water gauge sensor and gauge with alarm like the one on Amazon, be it that is more modification of the factory setup then I think there is value in doing so.

Universal 52mm Water Temperature Gauge 100-300F

do you recommend the scan gauge? Which one?

 

[2021 LC200]

do you recommend the scan gauge? Which one?

I have no experience or done much research on them yet. For now I can see:
- Scangauge II - Small and compact, will fit on top of steering wheel column or in my 16+ area for the wireless charger (you would have to look down a lot, not ideal), however it has no audible alarm for any of the settings which would be good to have for coolant temps and for that matter transmission temps
- Scangauge III - All singing and dancing, but quite big, not really what I want for a vehicle my wife uses a lot as well
- Ultragauge MX1.4 - Is relative small and would fit on top of the driver side window vent dash area and has audible alarm capability. Not sure how easy it would be to setup on a 16+ US market 200. On the website I only see reference to 16+ 4.5 diesel versions. I do think it can be programmed with the PID stuff I also have on my OBD fusion app. The fact I am considering getting the ultragauge is primarily the audible alarm and keeping my phone free to run waze or google maps or spotify.

Beside the mounts offered on the ultragauge website this also looks like a good setup

A-Pillar Ultragauge Mount for Tacoma, Tundra, Landcruiser, Sequoia, etc | eBay

Note : Ultragauge or the Ultragauge standard bracket arenot included. This universal mount is designed to hold the Ultragauge EM Plus and MX in most vehicles with driver side A-pillar grab handle, including.

www.ebay.com

Another reference to the ultragauge. I like the way it is mounted.

Ultra Gauge issue

So, I just received my Ultra Gauge MX v1.4 and plugged it into the OBD II port and set up the screens like I wanted. All good, except now the auto headlights on/off do not work and the auto high beams no longer work. When the lights are set to auto with the stalk pushed forward, the high beams...

forum.ih8mud.com

Anybody experience with the Ultragauge MX1.4 in a 16+ 200, I would love to hear.

 

[weaponoffreedom]

I have no experience or done much research on them yet. For now I can see:
- Scangauge II - Small and compact, will fit on top of steering wheel column or in my 16+ area for the wireless charger (you would have to look down a lot, not ideal), however it has no audible alarm for any of the settings which would be good to have for coolant temps and for that matter transmission temps
- Scangauge III - All singing and dancing, but quite big, not really what I want for a vehicle my wife uses a lot as well
- Ultragauge MX1.4 - Is relative small and would fit on top of the driver side window vent dash area and has audible alarm capability. Not sure how easy it would be to setup on a 16+ US market 200. On the website I only see reference to 16+ 4.5 diesel versions. I do think it can be programmed with the PID stuff I also have on my OBD fusion app. The fact I am considering getting the ultragauge is primarily the audible alarm and keeping my phone free to run waze or google maps or spotify.

Anybody experience with the Ultragauge MX1.4 in a 16+ 200, I would love to hear.

I have a friend with the scanguage 2, in his 19 tundra, an he likes it pretty good. My LX is a 09, so i should be good.............

 

[linuxgod]

We are saying that there is nothing wrong with the 3UR-FE or the gasket materials used and the suggested failure mode of some lower pH coolant makes no sense as there is no widely reported issue with 3UR-FE head gaskets or that of other Toyota engines. That is also based on the expectation/assumption that most owners never change coolant in Toyota's.

The issues encountered are more likely a function of an overheating or several overheating events until a coolant system repair was performed. At that point the clock starts ticking on a HG failure.

Having a scan gauge II (without alarm) or a large scan gauge III (with alarm) or a small ultragauge (with alarm capability, the one I may get for towing as well) could be a good thing to prevent a severe overheating event. Or a water gauge sensor and gauge with alarm like the one on Amazon, be it that is more modification of the factory setup then I think there is value in doing so.

Universal 52mm Water Temperature Gauge 100-300F

Where is water temp taken? If it’s after the radiator then you don’t really know if something is wrong until the radiator can’t keep up

 

[2021 LC200]

Where is water temp taken? If it’s after the radiator then you don’t really know if something is wrong until the radiator can’t keep up

I think I will go the ultragauge route so real time temp data is tracked from the existing 3UR-FE coolant temp sensor.

In case of installing this water temp gauge with little spool and sensor, I agree that is better in the hose from the engine to the radiator than on the return. Per 3UR-FE info below, that would be the upper hose on the driver side (LHD models).

Further snippet showing the same. During initial warm up until the thermostat opens at 170 to 180 degr F you would not be seeing the right temperature with the separate coolant temperature gauge.

 

[32cls6speedmt]

I am attaching safety data sheet for our lovely Sllc antifreeze. Ph 7.6. Our trend from our testing on this forum has shown increased.

 

[Zill]

Why would the coolant become more alkaline if they’re claiming the acidity of the coolant is eating the HG coating?

I think CCN is way off on this.

 

[Nothinghead]

Why would the coolant become more alkaline if they’re claiming the acidity of the coolant is eating the HG coating?

I think CCN is way off on this.

Ethylene glycol can break down into glycolic and formic acids. This happens more readily at high temperatures and when exposed to oxygen. Given the wrong conditions, antifreeze become more acidic. I’m not sure of the process that makes antifreeze become more alkaline but the consequences of this can be mineral deposits that then clog small channels and regional overheating.

pH 7.6 is still on the alkaline side and I believe the additives buffer the solution to maintain slight alkalinity and prevent pH change as some glycol becomes acid over time.

 

[weaponoffreedom]

Why would the coolant become more alkaline if they’re claiming the acidity of the coolant is eating the HG coating?

I think CCN is way off on this.

In order for the coolant to become acidic.....what has to happen first?

 

[Sandroad]

Looks like it's 16 hours for the head gaskets. If you R&R the valves it's 24 hours by the FSM. Other stuff like valve cover gaskets should be part of the 16 hours as those have to come off anyway.

I'm not surprised in the amount of labor though. Just doing the timing chain cover (gasket) is 6.6 hours by the book, and I think the valley plate was also like 10 hours by the book.

View attachment 3724645

At least it takes only 6 minutes to change the oil filler cap.

 

[hbar]

As long as we're talking about coolant health, is chemically flushing the coolant system not a thing here? On the Jeep 4.0L we commonly recommend running something like Thermocure through the system as part of a complete flush. If you want optimally performing coolant, you need to have a somewhat clean environment.

 

[WickedCrawler]

Getting prepped to do the first coolant (that I know of) on my 15 LX @ 105k miles and the existing coolant is testing nicely…should I even change it?

Due to images not looking true to life, I angled the strip to the actual corresponding colors. Dipped the brake fluid side as well.

 

[TeCKis300]

It's not "one" failure. That was kind of the entire point of the video, he's seeing it more and more. 4 UR HG failures in his shop at time of filming, 2 more scheduled to come in, "many" more in the past. But, I guess he's lying to get views?

There's reports here as well (manifesting in the same way). It took less than a minute of using search to find multiple threads. Then I stopped trying. Some threads contain multiple reports.

Early Model LC200 Head Gasket

forum.ih8mud.com

3UR-FE Rebuild - Head Gasket Failure

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Reliable shops for LX570 head gasket seal repair

forum.ih8mud.com

2013 LX 570 120K Head Gasket? High Potassium in Blackstone report

Bought this LX used a few years back with 80K miles. Radiator did have the normal hair line crack, but nothing nasty like I've seen others post. It was replaced along with the water pump, hoses, etc. No history of overheating as far as I know. Been having to fill the overflow reservoir...

forum.ih8mud.com

2011 Head Gasket?

forum.ih8mud.com

Blown Head Gasket?

forum.ih8mud.com

2014 Head Gasket Replacement at 42K.

forum.ih8mud.com

The entire point of his video was to cast FUD, fear uncertainty and doubt, and to gain views.

That head gaskets can fail is not new. It often is a symptom of something else rather than a root issue as he portrayed in this his video. Since the beginning of the internal combustion engine, head gaskets have leaked. This is where CCN is showing his limitations as a mechanic and YouTuber. His narrative is all over the place, inconcise, and frankly misleading.

@2021 LC200 is right. We need to be talking about root causes like not exercising proper maintenance, overheating, knock potentially from the use of wrong octanes, etc.

He also misses on a major option to repair. If Toyota says flatness is within spec to repair, there's no need to second-guess. It's an engineering problem. Not a feels like it won't hold problem. In production even new there are flatness requirements and nothing is perfect.

5.7 l engines can be found all day long in mass-produced, tundras and sequoias. Easy option to find one and drop in for 5 to 8K.

Better yet follow the manufacturer's requirements for maintenance intervals, fluid requirements and don't ignore symptoms before they become a problem. Maintenance intervals are as much to inspect and address subsystem issues in vehicle before they become a major problem.

Yet leave it to the masses to interpret and defer recommended guidance from the manufacturer that then become major issues like a head gasket.

 

[bloc]

The entire point of his video was to cast FUD, fear uncertainty and doubt, and to gain views.

That head gaskets can fail is not new. It often is a symptom of something else rather than a root issue as he portrayed in this his video. Since the beginning of the internal combustion engine, head gaskets have leaked. This is where CCN is showing his limitations as a mechanic and YouTuber. His narrative is all over the place, inconcise, and frankly misleading.

@2021 LC200 is right. We need to be talking about root causes like not exercising proper maintenance, overheating, knock potentially from the use of wrong octanes, etc.

He also misses on a major option to repair. If Toyota says flatness is within spec to repair, there's no need to second-guess. It's an engineering problem. Not a feels like it won't hold problem. In production even new there are flatness requirements and nothing is perfect.

5.7 l engines can be found all day long in mass-produced, tundras and sequoias. Easy option to find one and drop in for 5 to 8K.

Better yet follow the manufacturer's requirements for maintenance intervals, fluid requirements and don't ignore symptoms before they become a problem. Maintenance intervals are as much to inspect and address subsystem issues in vehicle before they become a major problem.

Yet leave it to the masses to interpret and defer recommended guidance from the manufacturer that then become major issues like a head gasket.

Maybe he invested in a pH strip company before publishing the video?

Plenty of evidence posted here that higher mileage turning the coolant “acidic” is off base. Not to mention the long list of straight up acids that viton is rated “excellent” at dealing with. Possibly more resistant than the aluminum in the block and radiator.. tho I’m not enough of a chemist to compare directly. The chart is easy enough for anyone to look up.

 

[2021 LC200]

Not to mention the long list of straight up acids that viton is rated “excellent” at dealing with. Possibly more resistant than the aluminum in the block and radiator.. tho I’m not enough of a chemist to compare directly. The chart is easy enough for anyone to look up.

Correct, viton elastomers get typically selected when there is a need to pump acids.

And thanks to @TeCKis300 to shine some light on this as well.

Time to move on from this topic...

 

[gasman4u]

If all results are using the same test strips (they appear to be very close in appearance), they could read falsely alkaline. I don’t know much about how a coolant would become more alkaline over time. But think the simplest explanation is test strips reading falsely high vs the SLLC being consistently too alkaline.

 

[rexington14]

The root cause being old coolant degrading the HG sealant coating over time, well that is (obviously) TCCN's opinion as a mechanic. As the owner of the vehicle you either take it, and change your coolant every 5yr/50k (per the video), or you leave it, and just follow the Toyota manual (which actually only differs on the first change interval). It’s your car!

Actually, maybe you try running your coolant for an unlimited time and mileage and only change it when a pH strip bought from Amazon indicates you should. If it becoming acidic is the only source of a potential problem with the HG, and it’s not testing acidic, why not just leave it in indefinitely? Be sure to let us know how that goes.