The bodywork thread

[KLF]

Yes, I know, there's a "body and paint" section. I'm using this thread to post misc questions that pop up while restoring my '87 Xcab. I'm pretty much a noob at bodywork, and frankly it's about as much fun to me as mudding sheetrock (which I hate doing).

Cab is now stripped and ready to lift off the frame. I'm building a wood carriage-thingy out of scrap lumber to move it around, I need to get some decent casters.

First question: I need to pull the windshield. I have one of those windshield seal cutter tools on order, but I can't figure out how to get the trim off, without ruining it. Any tips?

 

[KLF]

Update: never mind on the windshield. I just had a thought, called a glass place that does mobile installs, they're coming to pull the whole thing out and even dispose of the old windshield for $75. At that price, it's not worth my worrying about destroying the trim and clips that are no longer available.

Next question: my doors have wing vent windows, which I hate, mostly because it puts the mirrors too far back on the doors. I want to convert them to solid glass, plus I have all the guts for power windows, and I have a really nice set of fancy door panels from a turbo 4Runner. Anybody ever done this conversion? Not sure how to close off the old mirror holes, there's no way to reach in from behind to weld in metal.

 

[bryan89]

klf,
for the windshield, you will need to be careful when putting something back in.

See, I hate the trim too, but it has its purpose. The trim is designed to shield the non-uv stable windshield urathane from the uv rays. so, if you dont want to put it back on, then you need to either find something else to cover it up, or see if you can find a uv stable windshield urathane.

Personally, I have a small windshield leak right now on my 4runner. its not a huge deal cause i keep it in the garage and wont drive it if it looks like its going to rain. but, I am sourcing an all rubber FACTORY replacement windshield gasket from austrailia. it will completely eliminate the hideous factory trim and be uv stable. and look like it was meant for the truck.....cause it is.
only problem is its on back order for a couple weeks.

 

[bryan89]

for the vent windows, if you want to get rid of them, i would try and source new doors. i mean you are going to have to paint the thing anyways. seems like they could be had from a junkyard for 50 bucks a piece or so.

the other thing you could do, i have seen an old timer do this. get a chunk of brass and see if you can get someone to hold it up inside the door frame behind the hole.
then take the mig welder and tack in several places over the brass until the hole closes up. see the weld wont stick to the brass, but it helps hold it up and not fall through the hole.
then remove the brass and grind smooth. repeat as necessary until hole is gone.


hey, speaking of vent windows, what condition is your driver side vent window frame in?
the bottom c channel on mine is starting to rust and I would buy yours if 'n' you beez wantin' to sell it to me

 

[KLF]

Thanks for the reply.

The reason for pulling the windshield is 2-fold: this windshield is very old so it is badly pitted, plus I can see small spots of rust hiding under the trim, I need to take care of that. Once the truck is re-painted, I will have the same company come back and install a new windshield, I have no desire to attempt that job.

That's the other reason for deleting the wing vents, I discovered yesterday when I pulled them out that the bottom channels in both of mine are badly rusted. If I do successfully get them deleted, you can have them, if'n you want them.

There are 3 holes in each door where the old mirrors were mounted, 2 small threaded ones, but another one that is almost 3/4" in diameter, I doubt the brass trick will work for a hole that big.

 

[85+92]

i like the wing vents, so I put them on my std cab

Id just try to source some std cab doors luckily the doors on these things stay pretty clean as fas as rust goes and can be had cheap. check craigslist and junkyards I woudlnt even mess with filling those holes if you say you hate body work as that will grow into a PITA in no time.

fyi I went to school for body work so if you have anymore questions I can keep watching this thread and help ya out

 

[KLF]

I do have another set of doors in my parts pile, they are tan (truck is red), but 100% rust-free. The only problem is they had those giant mirrors on them at one time, the ones that sat on arms that stuck waaay out. So, more holes to fill in. Any doors that I find around here in a junkyard will be rotted out on the bottom.

OK, since you're a body guy, next question: I posted this in the P&B section the other day, no responses.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/paint-body/492110-installing-factory-sunroof.html

I really want to do this, but obviously I don't want to screw up my truck in the process. I'm not having much luck on finding info on the 'net on how to do this.

Thanks!!

 

[85+92]

well....bare with me

theres a right way and the easy ( more practical) way

doing what you asked would probably work I just have 2 concerns.

(1) Ive used the hand powered flange tool and the flange isnt always concistant and probably not big enough to have another piece of sheet metal sit it.

(2) Im about 100% positive using that on that large of an area will definetly , not warp but distort the metal which if this is just going to be a trail rig thats decent I wouldnt worry about as the roof will look wrinkled in spots.

what I would do if youre going that route is source a pheumatic (sp) flange tool as they are much more consistant and will definetly make the flange deep enough. then just drop your roof cut in and start slowly making tacs and evetually have it completely welded. But make sure when youre grinding take your time and DO NOT do it all ar once as that will definetly warp the roof.

the "correct" way of doing what you thought of would be, if you have the whole 4runner roof is.
(1) cut about about 2" down the a-piller from the roof down
(2) cut along top of p/u roof skin considering what the 4runner will replace
(3) cut 4rnr skin to fit
(4) tac in place...weld...grind blah blah blah

the reason for this is your not cutting/welding in the center of the roof skin which will almost eliminate the risk of warping the roof. and will be easier to hide welds if theyre lines/corners etc.

have you checked yet if you can remove the brackets/supports that toyota pinch/spot welded to the 4runner roof? that way all you'r need to do is cut the correct size hole for the sunroof, weld on brackets have sunroof...wouldnt really need any body work

 

[Bogo]

Not sure how to close off the old mirror holes, there's no way to reach in from behind to weld in metal.

Dent the metal in a little bit where the hole is, and strip the paint off to bare metal. Auto body glue on a thin disc of metal over the hole. Fill in with body putty, smooth off, prime, and paint like normal.

Have you considered just getting a set of good doors with the right windows and mirrors from a junk yard?

 

[KLF]

Have you considered just getting a set of good doors with the right windows and mirrors from a junk yard?

Yes I have, please refer to post #7.

 

[x factor]

Dent the metal in a little bit where the hole is, and strip the paint off to bare metal. Auto body glue on a thin disc of metal over the hole. Fill in with body putty, smooth off, prime, and paint like normal.

The auto body glue he is refering to for the mirror hole repair (also refered to as panel bonding adhesive) would work well for the sun roof as well. If you do as you are thinking with the flange tool and slightly larger hole than the sunroof you would apply a small bead of panel bond and use 1/8" self tapping sheet metal screws spaced about 4" apart to hold them together while the adhesive dries (typically 12 to 24 hours). After it dries remove the screws and and weld shut the holes. To keep the heat from affecting the adhesive after welding have a blow gun on your air hose and blow on the weld imediately after welding each hole this rapid cooling will keep the panel bond from seperating. I would recomend leaving the sun roof intact for the installation to help keep the structural shape. Masking tape and cardboard would keep the welding spatter off the glass for welding the small holes as typically (I say this expecting you would also blow off the cardboard with the blowgun as well) the spatter will just bounce and roll off the cardboard if you don't have a welding blanket of some kind to use. A short strand fiberglass body filler should be used for the first coat due to strength and it is more water resistant than bondo, I do this to any patch metal work I perform. This should net the least amount of warp as far as straightening is concerned.

To shed some light on the adhesive, auto manufacturers are using alot of this stuff on exterior body panels for corrosion resistance as well as structural strength. Door skins and roofs are very common places to find this used without many if any support welds.

I have 20 years experience in auto body repair mostly heavy collision and I also don't care to do much putty work.

All the methods posted on this thread will work.

 

[KLF]

Thanks very much. You guys have given me a lot to think about, I guess this isn't as easy as I thought. Maybe I should have done it then asked...

85+92: Good info on the hand flanger. Turns out Eastwood also makes a pneumatic model that is not much more. I really don't trust myself enough to attempt to cut the A-pillars. I just don't have the confidence that I'd get it all back together properly aligned, and then the windshield and doors wouldn't seal properly.

Bill: I kinda like your idea with the adhesives and SM screws, seems doable. I have a Makita BCS550 metal-cutting circular saw, I believe it will go thru the sheetmetal of both roofs very cleanly with no distortion or bending. I may try a practice cut on the 4Runner roof to see. A good friend (guy I bought the truck from, actually) is gonna come look at it with someone he trusts that restores rusty vehicles, I'll see what he can offer.

Edit: crossed a milestone today. I can say without reservation that I have now wrenched on every single nut, bolt, and fastener on my truck. All that anti-sieze that I started slathering on when I got the truck 10 years ago is now paying off, I didn't have to break a single bolt, everything came right off.

 

[85+92]

85+92:. I just don't have the confidence that I'd get it all back together properly aligned, and then the windshield and doors wouldn't seal properly.

have you checked to see if you can JUST remove the brackets? Im sure they gotta just be spot welded on and you can drill those right off...

thatd be the easiest by far

 

[Bogo]

The body section of the '93 FSM I have has all the dimensions for getting the body to line up properly. These include how tall window areas are, window diagonal measurements, etc. Also there is a couple mm sloppiness that can be there and still have things work.

 

[KLF]

have you checked to see if you can JUST remove the brackets? Im sure they gotta just be spot welded on and you can drill those right off...

I'm not sure what you mean by "brackets"? The OEM sunroof is a "tub" that is integrated into the roof. I'll have to take a close look, see if it's possible.

Bogo, I have an '88 FSM, there are a few dims in there, not sure it's enough to keep me straight.

Still thinking about this sunroof idea... thanks guys!

 

[foxfab]

U shoulda taken the roof/sunroof off my 87 4Runner when u had the chance Your cab is too nice to start cutting up I think. Just go for a convertible conversion. Pirate4x4.Com - Pirates of the Rubicon 4wd Club

 

[KLF]

LOL Mike.

Actually the roof I have is the one you gave me, remember? JP delivered it to me?

No thanks on the convertible idea. I worked with a guy long ago that took a brand spanking new '88 pickup to a conversion place and had that done. It leaked horribly, he was really sorry he did it. Not enough structure in the cab to make it work properly.

 

[WarDamnEagle]

It leaked horribly, he was really sorry he did it.

To be honest, that was my exact thought when you said you wanted to install a sunroof. I wouldn't do it.

 

[KLF]

I've owned several of these trucks with factory sunroofs, they're never leaked. I don't see how they can.

 

[WarDamnEagle]

I've owned several of these trucks with factory sunroofs, they're never leaked. I don't see how they can.

Key word being factory. I'm sure it will be fine but it seems to me that you would at least need to weld the assembly in place. But maybe not. I'm by no means an expert.