The 2H/12H-T/1HZ/1HD-T/1HD-FT Gturbo Alternative Tech Thread (4 Viewers)

[Mcreight911]

You seem a bit sceptical @Dougal ? I don’t think kiwidingo is referring specifically to fact that it’s a mixed flow turbine when he says latest modern tech, but to the shape/ design/ profile of the compressor. Mixed flow turbine on a performance turbo specifically designed for a 4.2 diesel would be a first to my knowledge.

As for better air density at lower boost, is that a trick question?

I’ll agree the afr plot does look a bit fat down low. However previous experience with tuning performance pumps and afr dyno plots I would expect the on road reality to be a split second dip to the 15’s with a puff of smoke and no heat worries.

 

[Dougal]

You seem a bit sceptical @Dougal ? I don’t think kiwidingo is referring specifically to fact that it’s a mixed flow turbine when he says latest modern tech, but to the shape/ design/ profile of the compressor. Mixed flow turbine on a performance turbo specifically designed for a 4.2 diesel would be a first to my knowledge.

As for better air density at lower boost, is that a trick question?

I’ll agree the afr plot does look a bit fat down low. However previous experience with tuning performance pumps and afr dyno plots I would expect the reality to be a split second dip to the 15’s with a puff of smoke and no heat worries.

If they had something unique and fanciful with the compressor, we would either see outstanding performance on the dyno charts or they would be marketing hard that aspect of the design. But I don't see either.

The only way to gain higher air through the engine (i.e. better cylinder fill) with lower boost is by reducing drive pressure. But even a 30 year old T25 can acheive higher boost than drive pressure at the best operating point. So do they have anything big there?

I currently have a dip to 15:1 on spoolup in one of my vehicles (boost compensator needs a firmer spring) and even with a turbo that gets through that point very quickly I hate it. As soon as I start climbing hills or towing trailers that quick puff becomes a big smokey hole in the rev range that is hard to drive through.

 

[wedgetail]

Not sure where you heard they are lower boost and performance? The ECL756 can support 35psi and has the performance of no other turbo I have ever driven! I've been driving a couple of there turbos on my 80 series now for quite a while and I can assure you they are not lacking in either of these areas. You are correct about not needed high boost to get performance, what you need is mass flow which is what these are designed to provide long before you get anywhere near peak boost.

my bad - i thought I’d read recent publications by them saying they’re only Good to 20psi but still outperform every other turbo.

I get they can be really efficient at low psi, and I’m not a serious turbo aficionado but just from an air flow point of view for a given pipe, temperature and pressure how are they claiming mass flow is increased? I kind of read it as a counter to Boyle’s Law...

 

[Mcreight911]

If they had something unique and fanciful with the compressor, we would either see outstanding performance on the dyno charts or they would be marketing hard that aspect of the design. But I don't see either.

The only way to gain higher air through the engine (i.e. better cylinder fill) with lower boost is by reducing drive pressure. But even a 30 year old T25 can acheive higher boost than drive pressure at the best operating point. So do they have anything big there?

I currently have a dip to 15:1 on spoolup in one of my vehicles (boost compensator needs a firmer spring) and even with a turbo that gets through that point very quickly I hate it. As soon as I start climbing hills or towing trailers that quick puff becomes a big smokey hole in the rev range that is hard to drive through.

Yes much lower dive pressure than some on the market

Optimised compressor design yes . Rather than spin it to extreme rpm to deliver oxygen requirements they size and design it to deliver at lower shaft speed .

With every man and his dog jumping on the performance diesel band wagon Id be sceptical too. I’d keep an eye on them @Dougal, I recon you’ll like what they offer more than anything previously offered for a 4.2 Toyota .

 

[gerg]

That's a disappointing afr ratio below 1900 rpm. Running dirty to spool a turbo early is not a new Idea unfortunately.

 

[absalom]

$2,695 AUD for a turbo. That's bananas ...

 

[KiwiDingo]

$2,695 AUD for a turbo. That's bananas ...

Not really mate, I've paid $4 each for avocados before. That's bananas!!!!

No but seriously, I remember paying $2300 for my Gturbo and that wasn't even the dearest version so not sure how much there top of the line ones go for? At just a little over $300 more for the Eclipse I can hands down say it is a bargain when you compare how the two actually perform. I never even thought twice about the cost of the Gturbo because I knew it was the very best turbo available at the time and I wanted to do things right the first time. After driving the two turbo's back to back in my own car there was no way I was putting the Gturbo back in and it went up for sale that evening.

 

[Dougal]

Not really mate, I've paid $4 each for avocados before. That's bananas!!!!

No but seriously, I remember paying $2300 for my Gturbo and that wasn't even the dearest version so not sure how much there top of the line ones go for? At just a little over $300 more for the Eclipse I can hands down say it is a bargain when you compare how the two actually perform. I never even thought twice about the cost of the Gturbo because I knew it was the very best turbo available at the time and I wanted to do things right the first time. After driving the two turbo's back to back in my own car there was no way I was putting the Gturbo back in and it went up for sale that evening.

But what is the performance advantage?

 

[KiwiDingo]

But what is the performance advantage?

Look back in the previous page at @Mcreight911 post, everything they have said I've found to be true. There's also lots of info on there website and facebook page about what it is designed to do. I'm no engineer so I guess you should be asking the Eclipse guys if your after technical specifics but to answer your question I can tell you it has outperformed my Gturbo in every area. Well almost.... I can't get it to make that turbo flutter sound when backing off the throttle or the high pitch spooling whistle like I could with the Gturbo. I like that it is silent but some people really like those sounds for some reason so I guess they would find that a disadvantage.

Is there anything specifically are you asking about in terms of performance advantage that I might be able to help answer?

 

[Dougal]

Look back in the previous page at @Mcreight911 post, everything they have said I've found to be true. There's also lots of info on there website and facebook page about what it is designed to do. I'm no engineer so I guess you should be asking the Eclipse guys if your after technical specifics but to answer your question I can tell you it has outperformed my Gturbo in every area. Well almost.... I can't get it to make that turbo flutter sound when backing off the throttle or the high pitch spooling whistle like I could with the Gturbo. I like that it is silent but some people really like those sounds for some reason so I guess they would find that a disadvantage.

Is there anything specifically are you asking about in terms of performance advantage that I might be able to help answer?

That's why I'm asking. Those dyno plots just show it was hot and smokey through spoolup. There wasn't anything that stood out as an improvement.

What about the performance makes you excited about this one? We've got no specifics at this point. Other than it being rolling bearing and quiet.

 

[absalom]

The GTurbo is overpriced also.

 

[AussieHJCruza]

The GTurbo is overpriced also.

What do you call overpriced? The performance gain is worth every penny for the guy (like me) who wants to buy something that is going to do what it says on the packet. Nothing else I've seen spools like a gturbo, without a smoky tune. If someone wants to roll coal they should have a TD42...
(Disclaimer - I'm a satisfied customer of Gturbo and haven't tried the turbo in question) but the dyno shows lots of fuel to spool, most turbos spool well with a hot tune.

 

[ForealBoreal]

Graeme has built a business for himself and provided tech with proof along the way in terms of performance figures. His products speak for themselves. I’d say they are worth it if you want to travel down that road but you’ll be replacing a plethora of other stuff to compensate for the added performance

 

[mudgudgeon]

Not really mate, I've paid $4 each for avocados before. That's bananas!!!!

No but seriously, I remember paying $2300 for my Gturbo and that wasn't even the dearest version so not sure how much there top of the line ones go for? At just a little over $300 more for the Eclipse I can hands down say it is a bargain when you compare how the two actually perform. I never even thought twice about the cost of the Gturbo because I knew it was the very best turbo available at the time and I wanted to do things right the first time. After driving the two turbo's back to back in my own car there was no way I was putting the Gturbo back in and it went up for sale that evening.

Do you have any affiliation with eclipse?
Not wanting to make any kind of accusation, but some of your posts read like you're not just a customer

 

[downunder 80]

I'm in the market for a new high flow turbo, with this eclipse turbo has thrown another one at me.
I want to stick to the ct26 base as I dont want to add an adapter
Reliability for me is number 1. No point having massive performance when I'm stuck in the middle of nowhere with a blown turbo.
So the biggest issue I have right now is justifying almost double the price of a proven Billet high flow for a new kid on the block.
How is it that a lot of other performance diesel turbo shy away from ball bearings but this one has ball bearings as its only option?

 

[IanB]

I'm in the market for a new high flow turbo, with this eclipse turbo has thrown another one at me.
I want to stick to the ct26 base as I dont want to add an adapter
Reliability for me is number 1. No point having massive performance when I'm stuck in the middle of nowhere with a blown turbo.
So the biggest issue I have right now is justifying almost double the price of a proven Billet high flow for a new kid on the block.
How is it that a lot of other performance diesel turbo shy away from ball bearings but this one has ball bearings as its only option?

MMP uses ball bearing as well, there was a group buy a while back on them and I've seen very little feedback from the guys that bought them here.

 

[gerg]

Do you have any affiliation with eclipse?
Not wanting to make any kind of accusation, but some of your posts read like you're not just a customer

Now dont judge him too quickly.... It might be just a coincidence that he's un unknown dude that joined two months ago, has 16 posts and is promoting a new Turbo for sale.

 

[downunder 80]

MMP uses ball bearing as well, there was a group buy a while back on them and I've seen very little feedback from the guys that bought them here.

Which one runs a ball bearing? I can only assume it the stage 3, not that you can read even the basic spec on their page. For the stage 3 price I might as well buy the eclipse.
With all the facebook pages I'm on you hear good things about MMP but then a few shocking ones. Same as G turbo you have the staunch followers then about the same horror stories.
I'm sure in most horror stories there are the truth and what is being posted. But some are just to similar not to take notice.
I havent heard of anyone running this Eclipse turbo, but the tuner I use highly recommends them, just not sure if i want to be a reliability guinea pig.

Neil

 

[KiwiDingo]

Do you have any affiliation with eclipse?
Not wanting to make any kind of accusation, but some of your posts read like you're not just a customer

No mate, nothing official to do with Eclipse. My car as has many others who live around Brisbane has been used for various product testing but other than that I'm just an extremely enthusiastic customer. I paid for my turbo just like everyone else who's running one and to say I'm stoked with it is an understatement.

I don't live too far away from the Eclipse factory so I'm quite often dropping by to check out what new products they are working on. Although the company has only become public in the last few months they have actually been around for years.

Of course I'm going to be bias towards my opinions of the Eclipse turbo, how could I not be. I've run CT26, DTS and I ran my Gturbo for over 5 years on my car so I know first hand how they actually perform in all manner of driving conditions. The Eclipse out performs them all, in all areas.

 

[absalom]

No mate, nothing official to do with Eclipse. My car as has many others who live around Brisbane has been used for various product testing but other than that I'm just an extremely enthusiastic customer. I paid for my turbo just like everyone else who's running one and to say I'm stoked with it is an understatement.

I don't live too far away from the Eclipse factory so I'm quite often dropping by to check out what new products they are working on. Although the company has only become public in the last few months they have actually been around for years.

Of course I'm going to be bias towards my opinions of the Eclipse turbo, how could I not be. I've run CT26, DTS and I ran my Gturbo for over 5 years on my car so I know first hand how they actually perform in all manner of driving conditions. The Eclipse out performs them all, in all areas.

I'd want to see dyno sheets for all these on an identical vehicle, tuned by the same person. If I was paying $2,500+ on a turbo (which I certainly am not), you'd bet your ass I'd want to see some additional, independent research.

Coming from the TDI world, where a cutting edge VNT turbo (which certainly adds to the complexity and cost) can be had for $1,000 USD max, it still makes very little sense why turbos for our trucks cost so much. It's probably a function of the market though, there really aren't that many turbo upgrade offerings for our trucks, and vendors are able to command top dollar for extremely dated technology simply due to a lack of competition.

We need a US mfg (or vendor) to step up to the plate and start offering an affordable bolt-on solution for the JDM diesels.