The 2H/12H-T/1HZ/1HD-T/1HD-FT Gturbo Alternative Tech Thread (1 Viewer)

[tweeek]

Per your advice, I simply added worm gear clamps to the waste gate lines and cinced them down to add restriction.

Pinching the line between the MBC and waste gate definitely changes the characteristics of my fluctuations. I have to tighten it to the point the waste gate won't open, then back off in very small increments. I can get it to the point it fluctuates a few times then levels out at desired PSI, or large 4-5psi boost spike, before levelling out. Its not perfect but an improvement.

So your theory definitely holds ground, any ideas WHY this would be, and what a more permanent solution would be?

I ordered a new MBC, the same as Malahki, since he isn't having issues just to rule out MBC.

Just for anyone interested. The solution to my fluctuation problem was actually replacing the aftermarket turbine housing back to the stock unit. Pulling the turbo and manifold was a pain in the ass, but I'm happy it's done.

Comparing the 2 housings, the aftermarket one has a smaller waster gate hole. Also the lever that opens the gate is longer, meaning the actuator travel won't open it as far either. Some combination of this was causing the waste gate to flutter. Steady as a rock with the stock housing back on.

I honestly cant notice the difference between Foreals supposed smaller housing and the stock one in spooling time, so I'll probably leave it this way for now.

I'm just happy it wasn't a surge issue.

 

[Dougal]

Just for anyone interested. The solution to my fluctuation problem was actually replacing the aftermarket turbine housing back to the stock unit. Pulling the turbo and manifold was a pain in the ass, but I'm happy it's done.

Comparing the 2 housings, the aftermarket one has a smaller waster gate hole. Also the lever that opens the gate is longer, meaning the actuator travel won't open it as far either. Some combination of this was causing the waste gate to flutter. Steady as a rock with the stock housing back on.

I honestly cant notice the difference between Foreals supposed smaller housing and the stock one in spooling time, so I'll probably leave it this way for now.

I'm just happy it wasn't a surge issue.

A bigger turbine housing will move the compressor further away from surge. Slightly loss in spoolup but may not be noticable.

I think if you wanted to run that smaller turbine housing you need a different compressor or to check intake pressure loss.

 

[tweeek]

A bigger turbine housing will move the compressor further away from surge. Slightly loss in spoolup but may not be noticable.

I think if you wanted to run that smaller turbine housing you need a different compressor or to check intake pressure loss.

This makes sense, but I thought surge was ruled out being it only happens at high load high RPM 3000ish. Mostly in 3rd gear. Plus the Signature changes when adding restriction to the 1/4 inch waste gate line.

Now I'm more confused

 

[Dougal]

This makes sense, but I thought surge was ruled out being it only happens at high load high RPM 3000ish. Mostly in 3rd gear. Plus the Signature changes when adding restriction to the 1/4 inch waste gate line.

Now I'm more confused

You'd have to map it all out. Do you have a snorkel or other restrictions on your intake?

 

[tweeek]

You'd have to map it all out. Do you have a snorkel or other restrictions on your intake?

No snorkle. As part of my troubleshooting I modded the airbox to 4" in and 4/3.5 out (4 at lid, reducing to 3.5 in middle of radius) . 3.5 to 3 at turbo 90. That made a huge difference in power delivery, but no change to flutter. If anything may had made it marginally worse.

 

[Mike Tyrrel]

You want a turbo that'll spin to 5k rpm, Gturbos are on full boost (for most people) by what 1600rpm? It's pretty obvious that one turbo cannot do both well. I can't imagine Graeme or anyone else wanting to re-engineer his turbos for such a limited market at the same price.
Compounds are the only way to reliably span such a wide rpm range. Even VNT won't cut it.

Are the Gturbos just hybrids? Nope. Best description I've got is custom matched parts inside CT26 compatible housings.

Dougal
Is there an aftermarket exhaust manifold for the 12HT that you know of. I prefer to go with the G Turbo, (in upgrade process now) I see the work G has done already. I want a/the near perfect solution, price is high especially sending to USA, but the solution is long term. Worth it.
Thanks

 

[Dougal]

Dougal
Is there an aftermarket exhaust manifold for the 12HT that you know of. I prefer to go with the G Turbo, (in upgrade process now) I see the work G has done already. I want a/the near perfect solution, price is high especially sending to USA, but the solution is long term. Worth it.
Thanks

I haven't looked for any 12HT manifolds. Others may be able to help you.

 

[Stephan Mester]

A bigger turbine housing will move the compressor further away from surge. Slightly loss in spoolup but may not be noticable.

I think if you wanted to run that smaller turbine housing you need a different compressor or to check intake pressure loss.

About which turbo config is his now?

 

[HDJDub]

I'm open to trying another MBC. I bought the HALLMAN Pro setup, as I was told it was the best setup at the time for some reason that I can't remember at the moment. It did come with a heavier spring, maybe I'll try the heavier spring on a low setting and see if it makes a difference.

I know a few other people bought these wheels a few years ago, anyone seeing the same surge? Paging @lynchmob @HDJDub @Malahki

Thanks for the help

In 30,000km I never had any surge but I’m also running significantly more boost then you (30psi) I had a custom fuel pin, kinugawa wastegate with a 25lb spring, safari intercooler and a full 3” exhaust I made that goes inside the frame all the way to the back. I was using a s***ty Mbc that came with an old car I had bought. Might have actually been a Hallman iirc. I rolled that truck in 2017 however.

I had bought a second setup from Karter so I’m just in the process of installing that, a PDI intercooler, another kinugawa wastegate with 25psi spring and I’m making another exhaust currently in the same routing as my old truck. This time I have a HKS Evc-S boost controller and a Zeal fuel pin I imported from Japan.

I should mention that my friend that assembled it ported the wastegate on both setups which probably helped me avoid anything like that.

Will let you know how it goes.

 

[canadian bum]

Anyone watch the latest 4wd Action where Shaun is talking about his 1HD-FTE build for his Dirty 30. He's using some form of Garrett turbo. Some guys in the comments are speculating on whether it's a GTX2867R or GTX3067R.

Here is a link to the video.
Dirty 30 1HD-FTE

 

[AussieHJCruza]

IMHO none of Garrett's turbos are optimal for a 1HD-### but MTQ might mod it in some way. However, I understand that ball bearing turbos don't go well with a diesel's dirty oil.

 

[canadian bum]

IMHO none of Garrett's turbos are optimal for a 1HD-### but MTQ might mod it in some way. However, I understand that ball bearing turbos don't go well with a diesel's dirty oil.

A Garrett GTP38R is a common upgrade for the Ford powerstroke 7.3L and it's a ball bearing turbo. Having good oil filtration is extremely important. And even more so with modern diesels as the tolerances are much tighter. Can't get away with slack maintenance anymore because it has high potential for catastrophic failure.

Some filters and oil is a lot better now.

Do you know anyone running those turbos or was that just a sponsorship plug on 4wd action?

 

[AussieHJCruza]

Do you know anyone running those turbos or was that just a sponsorship plug on 4wd action?

I've never heard anybody running them except John Rooth (Roothy) and Shaun.

 

[AussieHJCruza]

I should add, I have never actually dealt with MTQ however I almost did - booked the hdj80 in to get on the dyno there. Before I finalised the booking I had a chat to them about the way they tuned. I said I have a pre turbo pyrometer and want the air fuels at 21:1 on boost, egts around 650-700 sustained and I don't mind a bit lower afr at the bottom end. The guy said, oh we will have to move the EGT probe to the dump pipe, can't have it pre turbo because we tune to 550 Celsius post and we wouldn't know what the equivalent is pre turbo. Also we don't look at air fuel because EGT is all that matters on a diesel.
Needless to say, the 80 did not get left at MTQ

 

[canadian bum]

I should add, I have never actually dealt with MTQ however I almost did - booked the hdj80 in to get on the dyno there. Before I finalised the booking I had a chat to them about the way they tuned. I said I have a pre turbo pyrometer and want the air fuels at 21:1 on boost, egts around 650-700 sustained and I don't mind a bit lower afr at the bottom end. The guy said, oh we will have to move the EGT probe to the dump pipe, can't have it pre turbo because we tune to 550 Celsius post and we wouldn't know what the equivalent is pre turbo. Also we don't look at air fuel because EGT is all that matters on a diesel.
Needless to say, the 80 did not get left at MTQ

Yeah I wouldn't be taking anything there either. Wow...

 

[Mcreight911]

Eclipse turbo systems have released their stage one turbo for the 1hdt, hdft model
Not a cheap option but a very good one

From Eclipse:

We have been working on these for some time perfecting and revising until we are completely happy with the reliability and performance of this custom dual ball bearing turbocharger for the Landcruiser 4.2. Designed from a blank sheet of paper, our focus has been on drive-ability, transitions, boost response and fuel economy all while maintaining the highest efficiency possible. With a very impressive 380rwnm at only 1350rpm and peak torque over 600rwnm at 1900rpm, this turbocharger does not require the same boost pressure as other turbochargers in order to flow the density required to achieve this. With low turbine back pressure the torque holds for a sustained amount of time having 510rwnm at 3100rpm, this can also been seen in the turbines discharge temperature and lack of compressor surge. Although these dyno graphs look very impressive they only depict about 1/3 of the actual turbochargers drive-ability and performance.
Key features

• Absolutely zero lag
• No sound
• Rush of torque during spool up
• The capability of pushing flow after peak boost pressure has been achieved (where other turbochargers can feel like they fall over).

To the driver, breathing on the throttle creates and instant torque response even with very little boost pressure increase. And will sustain this wall of torque right into very high rpm.

Vehicle in dyno has an aftermarket pump which isn’t the best
Front mount intercooler
Moonlight airbox

 

[Mcreight911]

View attachment 1978450

 

[wedgetail]

They’re more than Gturbo aren’t they? For lower boost and performance... they claim they don’t need high boost but ultimately flow is a function of pressure and area so for a given pipe more pressure = more air

The guy said, oh we will have to move the EGT probe to the dump pipe, can't have it pre turbo because we tune to 550 Celsius post and we wouldn't know what the equivalent is pre turbo. Also we don't look at air fuel because EGT is all that matters on a diesel

thats a shame I got the impression they were good. What idiots

 

[KiwiDingo]

They’re more than Gturbo aren’t they?

I've you're already spending in excess of $2300 for a turbo, is a few hundred more from one that's completely designed from the ground up using the very latest in modern turbo designs to work with our specific engine really a factor? This ain't no 30 year old turbo tech dressed up with some shiney parts. I find this quite funny thinking back on it but I had a gturbo and I like many others thought they were the best turbo you could possibly have and I recommended them to everyone. I can no longer do that because I sold my gturbo the very day I test drove an Eclipse Turbo. It was dead set a "night and day" difference between the two and how the drove on the road.

For lower boost and performance... they claim they don’t need high boost but ultimately flow is a function of pressure and area so for a given pipe more pressure = more air

Not sure where you heard they are lower boost and performance? The ECL756 can support 35psi and has the performance of no other turbo I have ever driven! I've been driving a couple of there turbos on my 80 series now for quite a while and I can assure you they are not lacking in either of these areas. You are correct about not needed high boost to get performance, what you need is mass flow which is what these are designed to provide long before you get anywhere near peak boost.

 

[Dougal]

This ain't no 30 year old turbo tech dressed up with some shiney parts.

I find these claims quite interesting. Mixed flow turbines have been around for almost the time-frame you mention above and I don't believe anyone outside Ebay is selling 30 year old turbos dressed up with shiney parts.

You are correct about not needed high boost to get performance, what you need is mass flow which is what these are designed to provide long before you get anywhere near peak boost.

I would love to hear the explanation of how are these creating high air density without high boost?

The A/F trace in the plots above shows they are running hot, rich and smokey during spoolup.