The 2H/12H-T/1HZ/1HD-T/1HD-FT Gturbo Alternative Tech Thread

ForealBoreal

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There are some people who may not want to shell out for a gturbo or just want to simply go a different route. I for one know of a couple and I am pondering on building something up that I would like to out perform my current turbo. This isn't a dig at Graeme or anything, it's nothing personal. I along with many other people like the idea with experimenting too. This thread will bring to light turbo comparisons. There are alternative routes for everything.

360 thrust washer upgrade is a must....

I currently have a original Grunter 1 good for 20lbs. It is completely different to the new grunter series graeme has released. Supra wheels are safe to 20lbs....A good known upgrade is simply doing a Supra Comp wheel and comp housing onto the 1hd-t turbo. Boosts earlier and overall responds better. To make that even perform better porting the wastegate and turbine housing to permit more flow through will hold the boost for longer.

I would love to figure out a turbo good to 25lbs or so that would perform well. I know there are a multiple factors on what come into play for choosing a turbo that will perform well to ones needs (fuel pump, airbox, intercooler, intake manifold, boost planning on being ran ect. the list goes on)

I've thought it would be interesting to figure out some other turbo alternatives. There is a lot of tech out there regarding the TD42 performance turbo mods. The TD05 series turbos seem to be a big hit within that crowd.

From a patrol perspective:

TD05 16G is good to 20lbs and performs good with a stock pump.
TD05 18G works well with a pump upgrade and guys are blasting anywhere from 18lbs to 27lbs out of them with good results.
The exhaust housing size plays a big role in this regarding if its the 6cm or 8cm housing.

7MGTE Supra CT26 Comp Wheel:
46mm / 65mm

Turbine for CT26 (they all share the same size just different housings)
52mm / 68mm

MHI Turbo Specs
16G6 (big 16g) comp wheel 48.3 / 68 mm
18G Comp Wheel 50.4 / 68mm
20G Comp Wheel 52.65 / 68

Turbine Wise
CT26 52mm / 68mm with 10 blades
CT12B/CT15B 48mm/60mm 10 blade
TD05H 49mm / 55.8mm 12 blade
TD06H 58.8mm / 67.3mm 12 blade

Rumor has it that the TD06 wheel can fit into a 1HD-T CT26 housing with out too much milling.

3" anti surge comp housings are available as well
1272779_146467195563565_1023387705_o.jpg

Thoughts?
 
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good on you, i find it disheartening to see people gather info from members on here and piece it all together and charge a rediculous price for the product after and all while slagging anything made from china saying anything made in china you run a enevitale risk of catastrofic failure, yet they use them as a core too. i was wonderring why they have been so quiet. i thought this forum was to help each other out and trying to keep it the do it yourselfer or at least as cheap as possible. i think a t3 option is a good start . can hardly wait to here dougals input on turbo options he has good number knowledge and isnt here to rape anyone.
 
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Yea this is a great thread. For the price of a G turbo, I could buy an off the shelf borg warner and change it up completely. But personally I don't want to overcomplicate things. I don't see why any upgraded ct26 is worth more then $5-700, with machining and all. The last turbo I put on was a hybrid ct26 with 360 thrust washer and a 54 trim wheel and it boosted early and hard. 24-25 psi no problems.
 

ForealBoreal

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good on you, i find it disheartening to see people gather info from members on here and piece it all together and charge a rediculous price for the product after and all while slagging anything made from china saying anything made in china you run a enevitale risk of catastrofic failure, yet they use them as a core too. i was wonderring why they have been so quiet. i thought this forum was to help each other out and trying to keep it the do it yourselfer or at least as cheap as possible. i think a t3 option is a good start . can hardly wait to here dougals input on turbo options he has good number knowledge and isnt here to rape anyone.
Share the knowledge. My thoughts exactly.
Dougal we would love your input.

I know when I map things out a 2860r maps great but it does not perform well for the bigger boost.
2863 and even 2871 are other options people do but I think there are better options out there in terms of down low response.

Yea this is a great thread. For the price of a G turbo, I could buy an off the shelf borg warner and change it up completely. But personally I don't want to overcomplicate things. I don't see why any upgraded ct26 is worth more then $5-700, with machining and all. The last turbo I put on was a hybrid ct26 with 360 thrust washer and a 54 trim wheel and it boosted early and hard. 24-25 psi no problems.
Yeah under a grand for a fully custom turbo is what I see personally.

Supra compressor is ((46mm/55mm)^2 ) * 100 = 69.95 or 70 trim.

The Sumalaya compressors can be machined to whatever you want from the factory.
10 MOQ for a trial and 50 for orders after that....
 
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54 wheel is larger then a supra wheel. A supra wheel is not 70 trim.

I pulled this from another size so forgive me if they are wrong but I'm fairly certain the inducer sizes are accurate.

inducer exducer
Stock Ct26 1.811 2.559
40 Trim 1.870 2.559
50 Trim 2.122 2.559
57 Trim 2.230 2.559

Here's a supra wheel vs a 57 trim. I was thinking of going to a 57 on my new truck vs the 54 my friend and I used on his last truck.


 

ForealBoreal

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The math didn't seem right hence why I added the formula

Really hoping to get some ct26 based hybrids here as they are dame well bolt on.

I would be curious to see your boost levels at specific RPMs and some speeds. We can compare results easily.

Old Grunter 1 Supra comp wheel and a stock 10mm pump w/ boost comp and a manual trans

1400 - 3lbs
1500 - 6lbs
1600 - 10lbs
1800 - 15lbs
2000 - 15lbs
3000 - 15lbs

50km/h cruising - 5lbs
80km/h cruising - 8lbs
100km/h cruising - 12lbs

I'll try and edit these and get a better set of exact numbers as I now have a boost comp which inhibits spool up a little bit.

Adam B did a comparison to his supra hybrid to the old grunter he had. Hdj81, 12mm pump and an auto. 1300deg F pre turbo

RPM - Supra - Gturbo
1400 - 5 - 10
1500 - 10 - 15
1600 - 15 - 20
1800 - 18 - 23
2000 - 20 - 26
2200 - 20 - 26
3500 - 20 - 26
3800 - 17 - 23

Note this was making no changes to anything other than bolting on the gturbo upgrade. I think he backed it off to 22lbs.

Either way my thoughts is that the porting allowed higher flows to keep boost levels high through the rpm range.

When your adding more fuel you will hit a point where the turbine will hit choke flow and the boost will drop. I think clipping or fitting a larger turbine would help this.
 

gerg

 
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I like the idea of this thread. The g turbo is worth the money considering you are guaranteed predictable results. However, that being said, tdo5s come in twin scroll versions with 360 thrusts with 16g large wheels that can be upgraded to 20Gs for pretty cheap. They are the evo series turbos. Can be had for around 300$ and compressor and cover about 150$. So you get a stock housing with all MHI internals for reliability and cheap Chinese compressor. It is what I was going to try out considering the twin I scroll is a win win. The one I currently have is a 9.8cm housing with divorced waste gate. For a stock turbo it is very sophisticated. Of course like most of my turbos it's sitting on my shelf. They also come with titanium turbines too sometimes.
 

Dougal

 
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good on you, i find it disheartening to see people gather info from members on here and piece it all together and charge a rediculous price for the product after and all while slagging anything made from china saying anything made in china you run a enevitale risk of catastrofic failure, yet they use them as a core too. i was wonderring why they have been so quiet. i thought this forum was to help each other out and trying to keep it the do it yourselfer or at least as cheap as possible. i think a t3 option is a good start . can hardly wait to here dougals input on turbo options he has good number knowledge and isnt here to rape anyone.
I wouldn't say that at all. Graeme with the Gturbo has collected, tested, reverse engineered and engineered his way to the Gturbo line. He is a professional engineer who has done a monumental amount of behind the scenes work. Work that could not in any way be gleaned from other peoples postings on forums.
If I was producing and selling turbos they wouldn't be any cheaper than the Gturbos.

I have a very simple rule for any parts. If you can buy them, then buy them. It will work out a multitude cheaper than any build or piece together option.

I find myself in the unique situation where many different people throughout the world have made many thousands each off my advice and work. I have yet to receive a dollar in return but have been accused on other forums of mining turbo information to sell.
It's a strange place the internet.

As for the above turbos. TD05/06 are too big in turbine and compressor. You'll find surge with intakes bigger than about 45mm and the efficiency will always be poor as they never work near their best efficiency points.
 

ForealBoreal

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I definately agree that it WILL be cheaper to just buy a gturbo than to test a bunch of combinations solely for the fact that Graeme has been there.
I am hoping to just get some other real world data from other people.

I find it interesting that the TD05 18G performs so well in the higher HP range of the TD42 realm with a 12mm pump upgrade.
Those silvertops are tough (early IDI non turbo 4.2L)

Surging can be heard here:

Same truck:
 

Dougal

 
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High rpm power is easy. It's drivability and power that's difficult.
I'd put money on that thing surging and throwing the EGT gauge off the end if you hooked a trailer on and drove it up a hill.
 

gerg

 
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just throwing some numbers mapping it and the 16g large seems like it can flow over 20lbs at 1400 rpm with a good margin off surge. Surprising actually. Can hold that to 3500. The 20g does surge in the lower rpms not surprisingly, but can flow to over 4k. The 18g is in the middle and gets really close to surge but by 1600 is fine and carries 20 lbs fine to just under 3900rpm. Seems not too bad actually.
 
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Dougal

 
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just throwing some numbers mapping it and the 16g large seems like it can flow over 20lbs at 1400 rpm with a good margin off surge. Surprising actually. Can hold that to 3500. The 20g does surge in the lower rpms not surprisingly, but can flow to over 4k. The 18g is in the middle and gets really close to surge but by 1600 is fine and carries 20 lbs fine to just under 3900rpm. Seems not too bad actually.
Availability of an 18G wheel may be a problem. The 19T almost has it all, just hits the wall around 33 lb/min (440CFM). Don't use any MHI maps with the scale in CFM. They have been "converted" by someone who got it wrong.
The original maps in kg/s flow rate are correct.

The Holset HE221 is TD04HL based but with a higher boost (PR of 4) and flow (~38 lb/min) capacity. The tradeoff is lower efficiency than the 19T.
 
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i grouped a few in that phrasing,not all are guilty of everthing, but if your going to put a name to a specific product ,yes he has a great product, but to say that anything made in china for turbos is an absolute gamble with no good costly results. in actualality if he had a turbo that would have worked for me i would have bought one, but he didnt have one that would work over 5 g,rpm let alone pump and intake mods that he had not even heard of yet. i had a tubo enginere working the ct26 s for me ($650) but every time i upgraded my motor seems i had to upgrade my turbo ($150-$200) then when i did get it my transmission was cooking, best i did was 18 at 1800 ,but run it for about 20 k with big boost 27-30 plus, but i couldnt stand the whistle ,it almost sounded like a siren ,plus i never did have an egt problem at any rpm really . i have since gone to a t3 -4 hybred, its not the best but i run it pretty steady at 22 max. now. but it is a little loose the last time i was playing with the motor i noticed.went the chinese route only because of the cheapness of them compared to the old ct26 . i had access to a bunch of cores and every exhaust had a crack in it. and i dont live in a flat area either ,big difference when you live on a side of a mountain and you turbos not properly matched thats forsure. the way i see it also is if you can just buy the parts then just buy the parts ,no sense in trying to reinvent the wheel ,and when it comes to a turbo once you have the sizes then that is the size you need no? before the gturbo the only turbo guys had on thier 1hdt's were the stock or supra wheeled ct26. i kind of like the sumalaya antisurge hous

eing ,would something like that let you go a bit bigger with a saftey margine . sounds like that would be a good group buy. is that who makes them for the gturbo now too? the latest gturbo i saw had the antisurge holes in the houseing like that i thought it was ct26 bored out then a cnc'd insert was put in ,like the old persision turbos.
 

gerg

 
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It seems like the 16g large flows a tad more than the 19t with similar efficiencies but the 19t is impossible to surge. The nice thing is the 16gstyle comes ready to go all in one package and is also twin scroll,but yould have to mod the stock manifold to maximize that, but it is pretty close in stock form. I say the 19t would definitely spool much faster, but the tdo5 twin scroll would run lower drive pressures. Just a guess mind you.
 

gerg

 
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Wrong way.... Dude... You ask a lot out of one turbo. A sequential could do it though. Easy to size, but quite hard to fit into your engine bay.
 
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I wouldn't say that at all. Graeme with the Gturbo has collected, tested, reverse engineered and engineered his way to the Gturbo line. He is a professional engineer who has done a monumental amount of behind the scenes work. Work that could not in any way be gleaned from other peoples postings on forums.
If I was producing and selling turbos they wouldn't be any cheaper than the Gturbos.

I have a very simple rule for any parts. If you can buy them, then buy them. It will work out a multitude cheaper than any build or piece together option..
There's no denying Graeme has a great thing going, but not everyone is whiling to fork over what I would consider ridiculous money for essentially a hybrid turbo. But that's the whole point of this thread, there are people like yourself that will fork over the cash and there are people like us that want to collectively figure out something that works well. It might not end up being as good as one of Graeme's turbo's but for 1/4-1/3 of the price I'm whiling to give it a shot.
 
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thats the conclusion ive come to ,but im not the smartest guy thats for sure, im thinking of trying a used chinese t3 for yuks. but have a line on a cheap gt35 r (t3) i believe that a friend said might surprise me?.. vnt.. i got lots of room in my engine bay no ac pump and can refab the fender need be ,my body is fairly used lets just say.
 

Dougal

 
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i grouped a few in that phrasing,not all are guilty of everthing, but if your going to put a name to a specific product ,yes he has a great product, but to say that anything made in china for turbos is an absolute gamble with no good costly results. in actualality if he had a turbo that would have worked for me i would have bought one, but he didnt have one that would work over 5 g,rpm let alone pump and intake mods that he had not even heard of yet. i had a tubo enginere working the ct26 s for me ($650) but every time i upgraded my motor seems i had to upgrade my turbo ($150-$200) then when i did get it my transmission was cooking, best i did was 18 at 1800 ,but run it for about 20 k with big boost 27-30 plus, but i couldnt stand the whistle ,it almost sounded like a siren ,plus i never did have an egt problem at any rpm really . i have since gone to a t3 -4 hybred, its not the best but i run it pretty steady at 22 max. now. but it is a little loose the last time i was playing with the motor i noticed.went the chinese route only because of the cheapness of them compared to the old ct26 . i had access to a bunch of cores and every exhaust had a crack in it. and i dont live in a flat area either ,big difference when you live on a side of a mountain and you turbos not properly matched thats forsure. the way i see it also is if you can just buy the parts then just buy the parts ,no sense in trying to reinvent the wheel ,and when it comes to a turbo once you have the sizes then that is the size you need no? before the gturbo the only turbo guys had on thier 1hdt's were the stock or supra wheeled ct26. i kind of like the sumalaya antisurge hous

eing ,would something like that let you go a bit bigger with a saftey margine . sounds like that would be a good group buy. is that who makes them for the gturbo now too? the latest gturbo i saw had the antisurge holes in the houseing like that i thought it was ct26 bored out then a cnc'd insert was put in ,like the old persision turbos.
You want a turbo that'll spin to 5k rpm, Gturbos are on full boost (for most people) by what 1600rpm? It's pretty obvious that one turbo cannot do both well. I can't imagine Graeme or anyone else wanting to re-engineer his turbos for such a limited market at the same price.
Compounds are the only way to reliably span such a wide rpm range. Even VNT won't cut it.

Are the Gturbos just hybrids? Nope. Best description I've got is custom matched parts inside CT26 compatible housings.
 
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