The 2H/12H-T/1HZ/1HD-T/1HD-FT Gturbo Alternative Tech Thread (2 Viewers)

[vwluv10338]

Fitted my MMP turbo yesterday. Just a heads up for anyone about to install it there are a few issues with the kit. The oil feed line is missing a banjo fitting to go to the block. Luckily I had a feed line kit and various thread banjo bolts from my turbo 2H project. Using the banjo bolt I was still unable to get the oil feed to work and just ended up using my braided line. I added some tubing around my line anywhere it contacted the block to avoid any rubbing issues. Also the oil drain is 5/8" and in now way fits the stock drain. I had to go get some brass adapters which seem to be working but it's a lot of points of possible failure now that I have 4 hose clamps on a 6" piece of cobbled together hose. Once I thought I had overcome all the hurdles I tried to finish it up only to find out that my crossover pipe fitting was now short. I had to rig it together because I need my truck today so I had to cut my coupler in half and add some 2" pipe as a spacer. I thought I had it all together and went for a drive and had a terrible noise whenever boost would hit. It sounded like the turbo was blown and my heard sank. When I checked it out apparently my trying to fit the crossover pipe was poor and I didn't have it aligned correctly at the manifold. The boost was blowing across the metal gasket and eventually blew out an inch section of it. I would describe it like when you were a kid and would put a piece of grass between your thumbs and blow on it. That was the sound it made with the metal gasket. Luckily I have one on order anyway because I wanted to make up an adapter for an intercooler to hold me over till I finish my manifold project. I ended up making a new gasket out of a sheet of cork gasket I had and it seems to be holding ok. It seems to be driving fine but with my intake cobbled together it's hard to say I don't have some boost leaks but I can hit the 18psi my wastegate is set for. I have not touched the fuel at all but I did drill, tap, and plug an EGT port and my gauge is on order. Driving around it is interesting in that it seems to drive like stock and want to run to 10psi unless I hammer it and then it will boost up to 18. Obviously without EGT or an intercooler I am leaving the fuel stock but it seems to be perfectly drivable if not a little faster than stock. I was worried about installing it without touching fuel but it's just fine.

 

[MonsterCruiser]

Did you opt for the option with more top end flow? Looks like you have a different wheel than I do.

No, I'm pretty sure I didn't since that's not what I was looking for. Is my mind playing tricks on me or does your compressor wheel only have 7 blades? Mine has 11 same as the photo that was posted in the group buy thread:

GROUP BUY - MMP Ceramic Ball Bearing Turbo

 

[vwluv10338]

Yes, mine has 7 double blades. I don't know what the difference is but I believe Tom got some hybrid version which should flow more top end. Initially they sent out the email asking everyone what their goals were and I said low end because I am towing a boat. I never heard back again. When I was getting back in touch with Luke about th shipping I reiterated that I was towing and that they never responded and he said it would be fine for me. Maybe Tom can shed some light on the difference. Here is a photo from the email they sent out and it shows the two different wheels
@diby 2000

No, I'm pretty sure I didn't since that's not what I was looking for. Is my mind playing tricks on me or does your compressor wheel only have 7 blades? Mine has 11 same as the photo that was posted in the group buy thread:

GROUP BUY - MMP Ceramic Ball Bearing Turbo

 

[diby 2000]

Fitted my MMP turbo yesterday. Just a heads up for anyone about to install it there are a few issues with the kit. The oil feed line is missing a banjo fitting to go to the block. Luckily I had a feed line kit and various thread banjo bolts from my turbo 2H project. Using the banjo bolt I was still unable to get the oil feed to work and just ended up using my braided line. I added some tubing around my line anywhere it contacted the block to avoid any rubbing issues. Also the oil drain is 5/8" and in now way fits the stock drain. I had to go get some brass adapters which seem to be working but it's a lot of points of possible failure now that I have 4 hose clamps on a 6" piece of cobbled together hose. Once I thought I had overcome all the hurdles I tried to finish it up only to find out that my crossover pipe fitting was now short. I had to rig it together because I need my truck today so I had to cut my coupler in half and add some 2" pipe as a spacer. I thought I had it all together and went for a drive and had a terrible noise whenever boost would hit. It sounded like the turbo was blown and my heard sank. When I checked it out apparently my trying to fit the crossover pipe was poor and I didn't have it aligned correctly at the manifold. The boost was blowing across the metal gasket and eventually blew out an inch section of it. I would describe it like when you were a kid and would put a piece of grass between your thumbs and blow on it. That was the sound it made with the metal gasket. Luckily I have one on order anyway because I wanted to make up an adapter for an intercooler to hold me over till I finish my manifold project. I ended up making a new gasket out of a sheet of cork gasket I had and it seems to be holding ok. It seems to be driving fine but with my intake cobbled together it's hard to say I don't have some boost leaks but I can hit the 18psi my wastegate is set for. I have not touched the fuel at all but I did drill, tap, and plug an EGT port and my gauge is on order. Driving around it is interesting in that it seems to drive like stock and want to run to 10psi unless I hammer it and then it will boost up to 18. Obviously without EGT or an intercooler I am leaving the fuel stock but it seems to be perfectly drivable if not a little faster than stock. I was worried about installing it without touching fuel but it's just fine.

I have also spent the last couple of days installing my MMP turbo. I have also run into the same issues with the turbo oil feed banjo and oil drain pipe. I did not have the crossover pipe alignment issues but my install is a bit different and I did not even try to align them so I'm assuming it would have been the same.
!!! Heads up for others before fitting this kit !!!

I will contact Luke @MMPTurbos today and have a chat with him about it.

I would like to mention that I had some professional help with the install as I wanted some extra mods to fit a 4" inlet and different intercooler lines. I will do a good write up in the next couple of days but here is a sneak peek.

 

[diby 2000]

Is my mind playing tricks on me or does your compressor wheel only have 7 blades? Mine has 11 same as the photo that was posted in the group buy thread:

Yes, mine has 7 double blades. I don't know what the difference is but I believe Tom got some hybrid version which should flow more top end. Initially they sent out the email asking everyone what their goals were and I said low end because I am towing a boat. I never heard back again. When I was getting back in touch with Luke about th shipping I reiterated that I was towing and that they never responded and he said it would be fine for me. Maybe Tom can shed some light on the difference. Here is a photo from the email they sent out and it shows the two different wheels
@diby 2000

@MonsterCruiser I think the 11 blade 71mm compressor wheel was the original version. That is the one that the supplied pictures and dynograph are of.
@vwluv10338 I did get the upgrade wheel which is the 7+7 blade 73mm. It looks like you got the same wheel. I was told it would have greater efficiency up top but should have as good or better response down low also due to the differences in design.

 

[MMPTurbos]

Hi all,

Sorry for the sever lack of communication if people want to head over to the group buy thread I will provide a solution to the issues with the kits and an update.

 

[diby 2000]

@vwluv10338 I got some clarification about your 7+7 wheel.
Your wheel is in fact a 7+7 blade (as is obvious looking at it) but your wheel measures at 71mm. That is, it's the same size external diameter (exducer) as the 11 blade wheels but with the design characteristics of the 7+7. Where my compressor is 73mm, for extra flow up top.

 

[vwluv10338]

I have been talking to Luke as well. I'm not nearly as up on turbo technology as some people here but this is what Luke told me about mine, "after a few different combinations the wheel I selected was a 7+7 compressor wheel with an inducer of 48.0 mm and a Exducer of 67.0 mm." I know you can calculate trim off of that but I'm not sure about the 71 and 73mm you are referring to but it makes sense if I have a smaller wheel than you since I expressed that I would be using my truck for towing.

@vwluv10338 I got some clarification about your 7+7 wheel.
Your wheel is in fact a 7+7 blade (as is obvious looking at it) but your wheel measures at 71mm. That is, it's the same size external diameter (exducer) as the 11 blade wheels but with the design characteristics of the 7+7. Where my compressor is 73mm, for extra flow up top.

 

[gerg]

The 48mm inducer is going to be a lot more resistant to surge, but sacrifices top end flow. If your going for lots of power down low then that would be the one to go for. Be better to talk maps rather than blade count and diameter although it does help paint a picture. best would be mapping the compressor wheel with the boost and flow your using. If you can find the name of the compressor wheel that would help a lot.

 

[vwluv10338]

I'm sure there is more to it like you said @gerg but I did find some numbers for the TD05 wheels to compare them to mine.
16g 46.5 inducer 57 exducer
18g. 50.5 68
20g. 52.6. 68

My numbers of 48 and 67 puts me kind of between the 16 and 18g which would make sense. I seem to remember people comparing those and saying the 18g might be too laggy.

 

[Wildnlost]

I'm sure there is more to it like you said @gerg but I did find some numbers for the TD05 wheels to compare them to mine.
16g 46.5 inducer 57 exducer
18g. 50.5 68
20g. 52.6. 68

My numbers of 48 and 67 puts me kind of between the 16 and 18g which would make sense. I seem to remember people comparing those and saying the 18g might be too laggy.

I have a Mamba TD05 -18g and it is just a little laggy on hot days. No surge issues. Pulling trailer ok. 2500 ft elevation. I am considering buying a 16g cover and wheel but I am not sure if it will make 25 psi like the 18g . It is only $200.00us.
The 18g is still better IMO than the stock ct26 for my purposes. Very nice driveability.

 

[Wildnlost]

I'm sure there is more to it like you said @gerg but I did find some numbers for the TD05 wheels to compare them to mine.
16g 46.5 inducer 57 exducer
18g. 50.5 68
20g. 52.6. 68

My numbers of 48 and 67 puts me kind of between the 16 and 18g which would make sense. I seem to remember people comparing those and saying the 18g might be too laggy.

The 16 g wheel listed on the Mamba site is 48.3 inducer 68 exducer. This must be what is called a big 16g I,m guessing?....

 

[ForealBoreal]

Yes that's a big 16g or a 16G6

Stick with your 18g and keep the RPms up

 

[vwluv10338]

Ok, it's not the best video but I finally got my boost and EGT gauges temporarily set up. I only ran on the stock turbo with a boost gauge once so I'm not that familiar with how it acted. I seem to remember that it started building boost at 1700 RPMs and then shot up to 10psi. This is supposed to be set at 18psi and while explaining my turbo Luke said my efficiency would be best between 18-24 psi. As of now it doesn't seem like I have much room to add fuel.

Stock fuel
No intercooler
Stock downpipe with 3" exhaust from about the b-pillar back.

 

[diby 2000]

Ok, it's not the best video but I finally got my boost and EGT gauges temporarily set up. I only ran on the stock turbo with a boost gauge once so I'm not that familiar with how it acted. I seem to remember that it started building boost at 1700 RPMs and then shot up to 10psi. This is supposed to be set at 18psi and while explaining my turbo Luke said my efficiency would be best between 18-24 psi. As of now it doesn't seem like I have much room to add fuel.

Stock fuel
No intercooler
Stock downpipe with 3" exhaust from about the b-pillar back.

First thing I think is that you really should replace that stock dump pipe. That will be a large restriction I would think. I think that will make a fair difference.

Secondly, if thats what your (pre turbo) EGT reads at 18psi, and that is as hot as YOU want to run, then you are correct and you will not want to add more fuel until the cooler is in and you up the boost. Then you can add fuel to match the added air mass.
I personally think that is a cool, conservative tune. 1200F is only around 650C. Bear in mind that if you have not touched the fueling yet, it was probably running hotter than that with your stock turbo at 10psi.
Everyone makes this decision for themselves, and I'm not setting my cruiser up as a tow rig as you are but I am personally running to a max sustained temp of about 750C pre turbo. Thats about 1380F.

 

[vwluv10338]

I have a 3" turbo back down pipe for a 7MGTE Supra ordered that I am going to use to make a new downpipe. Not sure why the previous owner went through all the trouble of putting the exhaust on but left that pipe in.
I wish I had known what mine were stock but I tapped the manifold while it was out when installing the turbo. Between camping trips in the mountains and towing my boat I always wondered but figured being stock it should have been ok. My buddy's F250 will run up to 1500f or so but in the EGT thread here people seemed to be conservative with their temps.
I would love to have an intercooler and the downpipe in but time is the commodity now

First thing I think is that you really should replace that stock dump pipe. That will be a large restriction I would think. I think that will make a fair difference.

Secondly, if thats what your (pre turbo) EGT reads at 18psi, and that is as hot as YOU want to run, then you are correct and you will not want to add more fuel until the cooler is in and you up the boost. Then you can add fuel to match the added air mass.
I personally think that is a cool, conservative tune. 1200F is only around 650C. Bear in mind that if you have not touched the fueling yet, it was probably running hotter than that with your stock turbo at 10psi.
Everyone makes this decision for themselves, and I'm not setting my cruiser up as a tow rig as you are but I am personally running to a max sustained temp of about 750C pre turbo. Thats about 1380F.

 

[mudgudgeon]

I have a 3" turbo back down pipe for a 7MGTE Supra ordered that I am going to use to make a new downpipe. Not sure why the previous owner went through all the trouble of putting the exhaust on but left that pipe in.
I wish I had known what mine were stock but I tapped the manifold while it was out when installing the turbo. Between camping trips in the mountains and towing my boat I always wondered but figured being stock it should have been ok. My buddy's F250 will run up to 1500f or so but in the EGT thread here people seemed to be conservative with their temps.
I would love to have an intercooler and the downpipe in but time is the commodity now

I agree that most people are overly conservative in regard to max EGTs for 1HD-T. I think it's partly due to the 1HZ head weakness in regard to heat.

I had my 1HD-T tuned to max sustained EGTs of 750°c, and it was daily driven, and pushed hard. Occasionally EGTs would spike to 800-850°c, but this was rare, saw 950c a few times while learning how to tune it .
I only saw the temperature gauge move once, and that was mid summer, 38°c, I had the s***s, and was pushing my rig extremely hard up a steep mountain pass, so WOT for good 10 minutes.

I had my engine apart after it had been run at this level for around 18 months (it swallowed 2/3 of the turbo compressor wheel). Internally, the was absolutely nothing to indicate it was unhappy with seeing EGTs of 750C.

 

[diby 2000]

I too had my cruiser tuned by a reputable shop many years ago. About 10 actaully. My instructions to them was to extract as much safe power and torque as possible but ensure that it was safe as I did not plan or want to install gauges to monitor at the time.
While I was happy with the result at the time, my fuel consumption rose from 11L/100klms to 12.5L/100klms. I accepted the extra fuel use as part of the power increase and I was happy for many years.

That all changed about 2 years ago when I was finally in a position to spend some money on a new turbo. After plenty of reading and researching I decided I was going to have a go at tuning myself once the new turbo arrived so I bought a boost and EGT gauge.
Once installed I was horrified with what I saw. Running stock boost 10psi) on a reasonably short (<1klm) moderate climb on a spring day (30C ambient) with my foot not even to the floor I could exceed 900C pre turbo! This is the tune I had been running for over 8 years and in this time I had climbed mountain ranges with foot flat for minutes at a time numerous times without a thought as I had a 'safe tune'. Who knows how hot it got and for how long? In all these years I never saw the temp gauge even budge over its normal position, but I might not have even looked LOL.
Needless to say, I upped the boost to 15 without changing the max fuel and then I was maxing out just below 750c.
It was at this point I decided that maybe if would be worth trying for a better tune so I started playing with the compensater on the pump. The result to me was incredible. The cruiser is now better to drive, is torquier, has roughly about the top end power but uses less fuel.

Long story short, I believe if my engine is still running, then a max temp of 750c is not going to kill it any time soon.

 

[Wildnlost]

I too had my cruiser tuned by a reputable shop many years ago. About 10 actaully. My instructions to them was to extract as much safe power and torque as possible but ensure that it was safe as I did not plan or want to install gauges to monitor at the time.
While I was happy with the result at the time, my fuel consumption rose from 11L/100klms to 12.5L/100klms. I accepted the extra fuel use as part of the power increase and I was happy for many years.

That all changed about 2 years ago when I was finally in a position to spend some money on a new turbo. After plenty of reading and researching I decided I was going to have a go at tuning myself once the new turbo arrived so I bought a boost and EGT gauge.
Once installed I was horrified with what I saw. Running stock boost 10psi) on a reasonably short (<1klm) moderate climb on a spring day (30C ambient) with my foot not even to the floor I could exceed 900C pre turbo! This is the tune I had been running for over 8 years and in this time I had climbed mountain ranges with foot flat for minutes at a time numerous times without a thought as I had a 'safe tune'. Who knows how hot it got and for how long? In all these years I never saw the temp gauge even budge over its normal position, but I might not have even looked LOL.
Needless to say, I upped the boost to 15 without changing the max fuel and then I was maxing out just below 750c.
It was at this point I decided that maybe if would be worth trying for a better tune so I started playing with the compensater on the pump. The result to me was incredible. The cruiser is now better to drive, is torquier, has roughly about the top end power but uses less fuel.

Long story short, I believe if my engine is still running, then a max temp of 750c is not going to kill it any time soon.

I am going to agree that 1200f is safe, my story is much the same. Before I touched the fueling or did any mods I installed my guages first. Same thing ...temps easily hitting 1400f if held WOT up a hill. This tune had done a couple trips to the mountins. I was loaded heavy and pushing hard on a few climbs holding it floored for minutes at a time....I can only imagine what the egt.s were.
My current tune will just touch 1200f on a long hill with the AFR around 25:1.Being slightly lean at 25:1 it stands to reason that this is safe if you are tuning by AFR. I believe 21:1 is a safe AFR from what I see posted here. What sort of temps does 21:1 AFR equate too?

 

[IanB]

To those getting started, the takeaway is this: don't assume stock = safe. Getting EGT and boost gauges installed was eye opening to say the least. Stock fueling with boost turned up to 15psi is far safer than stock, and far better driveability to boot. Get the gauges, SEE what's actually going on under various conditions, and totally change your driving style as a result. You really don't know, until you KNOW.