The 2H/12H-T/1HZ/1HD-T/1HD-FT Gturbo Alternative Tech Thread

[tweeek]

Ok this is where I'm getting confused, here you guys are saying that the 58020 is smaller. And foreal sells the 58020 here as a quick spool option. For Sale: - CT26 Compressor Housing/Wheel Hybrid Upgrade Parts

I've also found mention of a 58010 housing, which is bigger than the 17020 according to this.
Mambatek 曼巴科技 - Difference TOYOTA 7cm (17020) VS 8cm... | Facebook

As far as I know, 58020 is the standard housing on all 1HDTs in the 80 series. I dont understand how it is marketed as faster spooling.

58010 is from a Coaster bus.

 

[HoJo 61]

58010 is from a Coaster bus.

Or HJ61...

 

[ForealBoreal]

I talked about this earlier that I believe some company's don't have the correct casting numbers. But there are a few things to look for to distinguish the difference.

 

[Rob1983]

Back when my 4BD1T was geared at ~2500rpm at 100km/h I would hit 12psi at that speed. I regeared to ~2000rpm at the same speed which dropped boost to 8-9psi and picked up maybe 10% fuel economy. That fuel economy IMO is due all to the engine rpm and not the boost.

A few years back I swapped a t25 (0.49 A/R turbine) for a T28 with 0.64 A/R turbine. My boost at cruise dropped to 4-5psi and my fuel economy tanked. I couldn't get a single fillup at 10km/l in the time I ran that turbo. It was almost 15% worse than usual. I fitted the 0.49 A/R T25 and fuel economy returned to normal.

My takeaway from that was that boost numbers at cruise don't matter much. What does matter is how efficient the turbo is.
I also find it's not low range offroad that I want the torque. It's high range offroad and climbing hills onroad. I've tried a lot of different setups and I always come back to the ones that pull hard between 1500-2500rpm.

I agree, it's when you hit hills at freeway speed you need the torque, and even more so while towing. That rev range is what I'm targeting for my setup. The motor already has enough torque below 1500 rpm not to struggle taking off, even loaded up

 

[ForealBoreal]

Back when my 4BD1T was geared at ~2500rpm at 100km/h I would hit 12psi at that speed. I regeared to ~2000rpm at the same speed which dropped boost to 8-9psi and picked up maybe 10% fuel economy. That fuel economy IMO is due all to the engine rpm and not the boost.

A few years back I swapped a t25 (0.49 A/R turbine) for a T28 with 0.64 A/R turbine. My boost at cruise dropped to 4-5psi and my fuel economy tanked. I couldn't get a single fillup at 10km/l in the time I ran that turbo. It was almost 15% worse than usual. I fitted the 0.49 A/R T25 and fuel economy returned to normal.

My takeaway from that was that boost numbers at cruise don't matter much. What does matter is how efficient the turbo is.
I also find it's not low range offroad that I want the torque. It's high range offroad and climbing hills onroad. I've tried a lot of different setups and I always come back to the ones that pull hard between 1500-2500rpm.

I can't justify the regear to 3.73s the cost involved at this point is not worth wrecking something that is running good.

So Dougal, based on your comments above, the Sumalaya turbo (as per FBs post) would spool up faster than the 1hd-t turbine, but be capable of greater flow, therefore working over a greater rev range?

My experience with my stock ct26 was that with lots of fuel if would spool up at around 1800 rpm, and boost strongly to around 33-3500 rpm before dropping off. I had it boosting un-wastegated which saw it boost to 22psi. But I know the end result was the compressor was choking.

So you are suggesting the Td05H turbine in 7cm housing will get a large compressor to spool up quick and still flow enough to drive a large compressor at 3500rpm without stupidly high drive pressure?

The sumalaya looks like a good option, but the smaller than 1hd-t turbine housing has me foxed.
Maybe it's not a problem?

The TD05H will dramatically help the lower end with the smaller housing but still provide the power up top. You can see this in the dyno graphs people out of the GX.

I agree, it's when you hit hills at freeway speed you need the torque, and even more so while towing. That rev range is what I'm targeting for my setup. The motor already has enough torque below 1500 rpm not to struggle taking off, even loaded up

Well if I hit a hill at highway speed I am at 2200 rpm and the engine gets loaded. The most I could see towing is a 2500-3000lb jet boat but I would imagine on cruise at any load it's going to be at full boost and even at cruise I would expect to be right close to it.

I'm curious to see how the BBX works for you as it's supposed to be a turbo that really works the upper RPMs

 

[Rob1983]

I can't justify the regear to 3.73s the cost involved at this point is not worth wrecking something that is running good.



The TD05H will dramatically help the lower end with the smaller housing but still provide the power up top. You can see this in the dyno graphs people out of the GX.



Well if I hit a hill at highway speed I am at 2200 rpm and the engine gets loaded. The most I could see towing is a 2500-3000lb jet boat but I would imagine on cruise at any load it's going to be at full boost and even at cruise I would expect to be right close to it.

I'm curious to see how the BBX works for you as it's supposed to be a turbo that really works the upper RPMs

Exactly, with the 4.56s, I sit at 2600 rpm at 100, so it's right in that load range. I tow 2 ton regularly, so response under load is needed to make it up the hills with that on the back. I'm told to expect 20+ psi by 2000 rpm, even with the big front wheel. I've driven a FTE 79 series ute with the same turbo on it and the response is ridiculous, 3rd gear at 60 km/h and you'll smoke the tyres with no effort at all

 

[Dougal]

So Dougal, based on your comments above, the Sumalaya turbo (as per FBs post) would spool up faster than the 1hd-t turbine, but be capable of greater flow, therefore working over a greater rev range?

My experience with my stock ct26 was that with lots of fuel if would spool up at around 1800 rpm, and boost strongly to around 33-3500 rpm before dropping off. I had it boosting un-wastegated which saw it boost to 22psi. But I know the end result was the compressor was choking.

So you are suggesting the Td05H turbine in 7cm housing will get a large compressor to spool up quick and still flow enough to drive a large compressor at 3500rpm without stupidly high drive pressure?

The sumalaya looks like a good option, but the smaller than 1hd-t turbine housing has me foxed.
Maybe it's not a problem?

Two different turbos. The CT26 and the CT20B.
The CT20B is smaller than the CT20B and faster spooling.

Is there data available on comparable components to model performance of the sumalaya turbo on a 4.2 you a diesel?

Yes, but I'm short on time to get my own stuff done.

Ok this is where I'm getting confused, here you guys are saying that the 58020 is smaller. And foreal sells the 58020 here as a quick spool option. For Sale: - CT26 Compressor Housing/Wheel Hybrid Upgrade Parts

I've also found mention of a 58010 housing, which is bigger than the 17020 according to this.
Mambatek 曼巴科技 - Difference TOYOTA 7cm (17020) VS 8cm... | Facebook

Once again different turbos so it's silly for Mambatek to compare them like that as you need to run different turbines inside those housings.
The 58010, 58020, 42010, 42020 etc housings are for the CT26 turbine and the 58020 (as far as I can tell) is the smallest CT26 single entry housing.
The 17020 housing is for the CT20B turbine.

This picture shows clearly the difference in turbine bore: https://scontent-syd1-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=61f0828687b9e896343f3c4bbd5810da&oe=572CA2A1

 

[mudgudgeon]

So this thread got confusing in the last couple of pages!

My main question above was I guess asking sbout the difference between ct20 turbine vs TD05H.

Dougal, can you clarify, you're saying TD05H is physically smaller than ct20, but has superior flow characteristics?
So the TD05H will spooler quicker than ct20 turbine (and obviously quicker than the ct26 turbine with 1hd-t housing ), but flows better, so will cope with gas flows at higher RPM?

 

[Dougal]

So this thread got confusing in the last couple of pages!

My main question above was I guess asking sbout the difference between ct20 turbine vs TD05H.

Dougal, can you clarify, you're saying TD05H is physically smaller than ct20, but has superior flow characteristics?
So the TD05H will spooler quicker than ct20 turbine (and obviously quicker than the ct26 turbine with 1hd-t housing ), but flows better, so will cope with gas flows at higher RPM?

TD05H and CT20B are almost the same size. I expect not much difference in spool, but I expect the TD05H to have better top-end.

 

[serenity]

So this thread got confusing in the last couple of pages!

Sorry!

But seriously thanks Dougal, Foreal and the rest of you guys for all your help.

 

[FJ601986]

So I have 2H with a H55 in a 60. Don't want to set the world on fire. What turbo should I use? I think low 7-10 boost would be safe? High end boost would be best for my use highway hills most of the time.
I was thinking just use a CT26 off a 12HT? Am I on the right track? Thanks

 

[mudgudgeon]

TD05H and CT20B are almost the same size. I expect not much difference in spool, but I expect the TD05H to have better top-end.

Thanks, that helps clarify things

 

[mudgudgeon]

Sorry!

Yeah, I wasn't pointing any fingers, but seeing as you owned it, This is for you

 

[gerg]

Your a patient man Doug.

 

[mudgudgeon]

Your a patient man Doug.

ha! no question there!

good thing there's a few of you turbo nerds who are happy to share this discussion, hey Gerg , coz to be honest, all the compressor maps, volumetric efficiency, calculators blah blah blah is a little bit beyond me. If I plug a bunch of figures into a turbo calculator, its the old adage of "s*** in, s*** out" well and truly in action.
the ct20 vs TD05H comparison is a case in point. I lok at the physical dimensions and see significant differences, but don't know how that translates to performance differences, if at all.


Gerg, if the centre of the universe is anywhere near Park City, I'll happily buy you a beer or two when I'm there in a couple of weeks

 

[gerg]

Ahh many thanks mate, but I live up near the North Pole and drive a team of dogs to work. I'll have to take a rain check.
Cheers
g

 

[Dougal]

Ahh many thanks mate, but I live up near the North Pole and drive a team of dogs to work. I'll have to take a rain check.
Cheers
g

And I live down by the South Pole. I drive a modified Ferguson TEA.

 

[absalom]

Hypothetical question to all those listening:

Let's say I have $1,000 USD to spend on a turbo for my 1-HDT. How would I best spend my money to make the largest increase in performance and driveability?

Nobody have an answer to this?

 

[dare]

Just for further clarification, the CT20 is the tiny turbo from a 2.4l 4runner/surf (2L-T/E). The turbo we're talking about is the CT20b from an MR2. Different beasts.

Dougal. I've read about your larger turbo swap and resultant economy drop before and found it quite intriguing. I don't suppose you measured drive pressure with both? What do you attribute the economy drop too? Simply being somewhere towards the edges of the map?

 

[mudgudgeon]

And I live down by the South Pole. I drive a modified Ferguson TEA.

Nice! What turbo are you running on that?

What about you Gerg? Got the dishlickers turboed?