The 2H/12H-T/1HZ/1HD-T/1HD-FT Gturbo Alternative Tech Thread (5 Viewers)

[gerg]

It would be very helpful to know how they failed. If it's a thrust collar issue it will eventually move the shaft forward and cause the compressor cover to eat the compressor which can then catastrophically fail which will confuse the root issue. I've often wondered how the collar would hold up to sustained high pressure ratios. There is a lot that can be done to improve the fluid film strength like synthetic oils and critical wear barrier additives like zink and tungsten disulfide and stuff. Most folks don't care to look into that and run what ever is on sale at the store when they buy a filter but oil choice is more important than ever when your pushing a turbo to its design limits.

 

[vwluv10338]

Interesting that he seems to be blaming me for not returning the original. When it failed he said he would get a replacement out in a week and would pay post to return mine. It was going to just be a core. Then he decided to change the specs of my turbo and send a super core. He said he was balancing it and had problems so he had to tear it back down again. He has said it will be in the mail week after week for over a month now. I know my turbo was different from the standard in the group buy but he offered that to everyone in the buy. Tell him their requirements. All I said was I would be towing my boat.

Under promise and over deliver. If he had said from the get go that it would take two plus months to get a replacement that is one thing but he has said "next week" for months. Hell he did all the group buy turbos, my turbo, and Toms custom turbo in less time.

Was yours a custom spec'd unit? Copy/pasted from a conversation on FB:

Nathan FaberGroup Moderator One guy on mud said he had one that has failed and he's been waiting a long time for a replacement ?

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· Reply · 1 hr

Luke Claridge Nathan this is true, his was a very custom and specific turbo. It has taken a while too organise a replacement because the old unit has not been returned to us as per the warranty conditions. I am hoping to have the replacement in the post next week. Once again any custom work where stock is not held on the shelf does take time to back fill

 

[vwluv10338]

Funny in that thread he also says he has correcting the fitment issues. He never sent out the missing banjo bolt and never offered a solution to the oil drain fitment issue either.

 

[Rob1983]

Interesting that he seems to be blaming me for not returning the original. When it failed he said he would get a replacement out in a week and would pay post to return mine. It was going to just be a core. Then he decided to change the specs of my turbo and send a super core. He said he was balancing it and had problems so he had to tear it back down again. He has said it will be in the mail week after week for over a month now. I know my turbo was different from the standard in the group buy but he offered that to everyone in the buy. Tell him their requirements. All I said was I would be towing my boat.

Under promise and over deliver. If he had said from the get go that it would take two plus months to get a replacement that is one thing but he has said "next week" for months. Hell he did all the group buy turbos, my turbo, and Toms custom turbo in less time.

It does seem unusual that time frame. I don't understand why it's so difficult to either build a complete replacement unit or send out a supercore. Mind you, Graeme tried to pull a similar stunt when I was arguing with him about replacing the first failed unit. I suspect they both changed their minds about the initial offer of immediate replacement and paid return of failure after the fact and don't want to lose face by admitting anything publicly

 

[Rob1983]

It would be very helpful to know how they failed. If it's a thrust collar issue it will eventually move the shaft forward and cause the compressor cover to eat the compressor which can then catastrophically fail which will confuse the root issue. I've often wondered how the collar would hold up to sustained high pressure ratios. There is a lot that can be done to improve the fluid film strength like synthetic oils and critical wear barrier additives like zink and tungsten disulfide and stuff. Most folks don't care to look into that and run what ever is on sale at the store when they buy a filter but oil choice is more important than ever when your pushing a turbo to its design limits.

It would be very helpful, unfortunately Graeme is so scared that people will rip off his designs that he threatens to sue anyone who takes his turbo elsewhere for 3rd party failure analysis. So there aren't too many legitimate inspection reports available. Mine failed because the oil seal came loose due to an internal circlip not being seated properly during assembly. So 100% his fault. But there were a hundred reasons why it could not possibly be an assembly fault. Like I said though, proof was in the pudding, replacement turbo that bolted straight in with no changes at all was removed 12 months later in perfect condition. I've heard other stories too, compressor cover circlips failing causing wheel munch, shaft failure due to being undersized for the application to name a few

 

[gerg]

If you own the turbo I'm afraid you own all of its components. Taking it apart is not a copyright infringement. Now copying a pattented design and selling it without permission is, but if it's a commonly available compressor then it's someone else's patent. If I were going to copy a compressor design it wouldn't be his. Borg Warner has compressors that are more than capable, with maps to boot. It comes down to shaft diameter and machining a suitable compressor cover.

 

[Nathjf88]

It would be very helpful, unfortunately Graeme is so scared that people will rip off his designs that he threatens to sue anyone who takes his turbo elsewhere for 3rd party failure analysis. So there aren't too many legitimate inspection reports available. Mine failed because the oil seal came loose due to an internal circlip not being seated properly during assembly. So 100% his fault. But there were a hundred reasons why it could not possibly be an assembly fault. Like I said though, proof was in the pudding, replacement turbo that bolted straight in with no changes at all was removed 12 months later in perfect condition. I've heard other stories too, compressor cover circlips failing causing wheel munch, shaft failure due to being undersized for the application to name a few

But rob you said you just chucked it away? How would u know what went wrong with it if it wasn't sent back to Graeme as asked?

More lies I guess. Probably why your been kicked off every fb page with a good following.

How is that copy going anyway ? Finally got the basics down like getting the waste gate in the right spot ?

 

[Nathjf88]

Was yours a custom spec'd unit? Copy/pasted from a conversation on FB:

Nathan FaberGroup Moderator One guy on mud said he had one that has failed and he's been waiting a long time for a replacement ?

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· Reply · 1 hr

Luke Claridge Nathan this is true, his was a very custom and specific turbo. It has taken a while too organise a replacement because the old unit has not been returned to us as per the warranty conditions. I am hoping to have the replacement in the post next week. Once again any custom work where stock is not held on the shelf does take time to back fill

Basicly asked him a question. If his ripping people off on the page I dont want him there. Personally I don't think there's better then gturbo. Graeme is more then happy to help people out when needed. I'm on my 2nd now. Upgraded from the grunter to the bad boy and now have 35psi just after 1800rpm with low egts.

 

[Mcreight911]

Turbo upgrades not meeting advertised performance or reliability standards is a major pain in the Ass . The average bloke doesn't have a spare to just throw on while waiting for a replacement. Not to mention cover the cost of multiple turbos .

I've had them fail from big name companies after being told yeah we've done heaps and they're all going strong!

But after receiving a "revised design" replacement each time one faild I wondered was this product properly r&d before being released or am I the one this product is being tested on. This is a risk you take when using new to the market products.

Best advice I can give is talk to the independent workshops who fit turbo upgrades and tune them.
They won't let someone else's poor quality product tarnish their name. Or ask on mud , if you have turbo sizing details @Dougal and @gerg will give good honest advice about how well it will be suited to your goals and what supporting mods it may need to work "as advertised"

 

[Rob1983]

But rob you said you just chucked it away? How would u know what went wrong with it if it wasn't sent back to Graeme as asked?

More lies I guess. Probably why your been kicked off every fb page with a good following.

How is that copy going anyway ? Finally got the basics down like getting the waste gate in the right spot ?

Maybe because I looked myself. Couldn't care less if you've got me blocked. Yeah, funny how 5 months of not being able to use a hand will delay things like that hey. But it's not a copy. Like @gerg said, better options out there without needing to be anything like a design that fails to perform as advertised

 

[Rob1983]

Basicly asked him a question. If his ripping people off on the page I dont want him there. Personally I don't think there's better then gturbo. Graeme is more then happy to help people out when needed. I'm on my 2nd now. Upgraded from the grunter to the bad boy and now have 35psi just after 1800rpm with low egts.

What are you now? The Facebook rip off police? Start in your own engine bay then

 

[Wildnlost]

Aftermarket parts are offered by a variety of vendors all trying to make a dollar from a product in this case a turbo. The turbo itself is a simple mechanical device comprised of fairly basic components. Over the years R&D has led to improvements in wheel design or bearing designbut really the same lump.
What is evident from this forum is how complicted it is to get the recipe correct. Must Boost early, boost over a wide RPM range, be reliable, fit the vehicle, be easy to tune, not too much back pressure but enough to drive the turbine only not too fast.
An old saying ...”if it sounds too good to be true it probably is “....rings true. We all want a good perfoming cheap turbo enough said. MMP, Gturbo, Mamba and a handful of other manufactures are trying to give us what we want some are cheap, some good value and others expensive.
Most performance modifications have a downside. After you,ve selected a vendor by price, performance, reputation, support and opions of our peers things are just getting started. Installation can get complicated...are you mechanically skilled enough? Tuning is also complicated. Supporting modifications or lack of can help or hurt your cause. Depending on the turbo you choose it could be too big, small, laggy or unreliable. Vendors will not always be supportive...did you pay for support?
I purchased a Mamba turbo td05-18g. 10,000kms later running 25psi. This truck pulls hard compared to stock, afr and egts are ok. it is alittle laggier than I hoped ...recently inspected the turbo, still tight. There were a few problems initially. Limited support. I feel it was a good deal. Look at my previous posts not all fun. This is my first diesel engine but not my first tuning experience. With the help of MUD my hdj81v is very satisfying to drive.
Did I think I was going to bolt on an aftermarket turbo and it would be perfect. NO. I hoped it would be reliable and make more usable power than stock without to much work. If it doesnt work or it blows up you have to remember it is aftermarket not TRD designed OEM part. Figuring out why it failed or doesn,t work as advertised is importanet to avoid the same mistake in the future. Sharing your situation is not easy either...emabarrassed, angry, dissapointed, feel foolish....that is normal. Share what you know about the problem and don,t worry about the fallout on this forum. There are plenty of knowledge guys here to help.
Sometimes you just have to move on. Discuss your results here on this fantastic forum keep the BS to a minumum. Maybe we will all learn something.

Definition POWER TO WEIGHT RATIO= The more power you get the longer you wait for parts.

Education costs money....the more it costs the quicker you learn.


Cheers from the Great White North

 

[Nathjf88]

Maybe because I looked myself. Couldn't care less if you've got me blocked. Yeah, funny how 5 months of not being able to use a hand will delay things like that hey. But it's not a copy. Like @gerg said, better options out there without needing to be anything like a design that fails to perform as advertised

I didn't get u blocked I blocked you welds all. After not one but 2 turbos your setup still didn't perform. You can have the best turbo or what ever in the world but if your not getting the right fuel in the right spots it ain't going to perform.

What are you now? The Facebook rip off police? Start in your own engine bay then

I did start in my own engine bay. I removed everything xxi.

 

[vwluv10338]

Well Luke sent me a tracking number today. He ended up sending a full replacement turbo.

 

[Mcreight911]

Well Luke sent me a tracking number today. He ended up sending a full replacement turbo.

Better late then never

 

[Wildnlost]

At what rpm?
I've said probably a dozen times now that drive pressure is dynamic and varies with RPM. Yet you keep missing that out in your replies.





The wastegate has exactly one job. To control max boost. It can only reduce drive pressure by reducing boost. In almost all situations that's a bad thing and exactly what you want to avoid.



I'd like to see you plot that on a compressor map.



It might crimp power. But the low and mid end would be unaffected and the low to mid range is where some people are struggling. A wastegate closed dosen't spike EGT. It creates more boost which depresses EGT at higher rpm.



Those are calculation results, my TDO4HL is still in the box and I need to make sheetmetal mods before I can fit in a big enough air-cleaner. The calculations though have proven accurate enough on all other matches. Both for pressures and torque/power.
I'm still running the T25. Which still does better than 1:1 (20/20) at 1800-2000rpm at high load. Restrictive exhaust and undersized air-cleaner make it a waste of time above about 2500rpm. With better plumbing the 40mm compressor would be good to 3000rpm max power.

The TD04HL-19T will beat it by about 5% turbine efficiency and a few percent compressor. Which both improve drive/boost ratios and spool. While having a much wider compressor map which will help at altitude.

Calculated results for 1HD are interesting. Even the stock CT26 should just sneak under 1:1 below 2000rpm if the airfilter is clean. I'd be fitting a TD05H-16G6 with 7cm housing and front mount intercooler.
At 22psi you should have ~600Nm by 1400rpm winding out to about 180kw.

TD06H-18G will give you much less low end, about 800rpm slower to max torque but another 20kw up top on the same boost.

I have been following the drive pressure conversation and am interested in your thoughts on my Mamba hybrid. I installed a TD05-18g about 10k ago and for the most part pretty happy. My turbo has a gtx style 11 blade compressor and 9 blade exhaust turbine. Egts max at 1150f 1200f heat soaked motor afr 23:1 wot pulling up long hill. 25 psi set point.
I am looking for better part throttle cruising boost and improved spool. Currently starts to spool at 1800 , 15psi by 2000rpm, 25 psi at 2200rpm to redline. (Auto transmission makes it hard to get good numbers).
Do you think changing the exh turbine to a 12 blade design would improve drive pressure at lower rpms and throttle position? Or would changing to a 16g compressor be a better combo?
Not looking for a dyno queen with big numbers just better driveability. Any input would be appreciated.
Cheers

 

[IanB]

I have been following the drive pressure conversation and am interested in your thoughts on my Mamba hybrid. I installed a TD05-18g about 10k ago and for the most part pretty happy. My turbo has a gtx style 11 blade compressor and 9 blade exhaust turbine. Egts max at 1150f 1200f heat soaked motor afr 23:1 wot pulling up long hill. 25 psi set point.
I am looking for better part throttle cruising boost and improved spool. Currently starts to spool at 1800 , 15psi by 2000rpm, 25 psi at 2200rpm to redline. (Auto transmission makes it hard to get good numbers).
Do you think changing the exh turbine to a 12 blade design would improve drive pressure at lower rpms and throttle position? Or would changing to a 16g compressor be a better combo?
Not looking for a dyno queen with big numbers just better driveability. Any input would be appreciated.
Cheers

To get better numbers for when boost comes in, try starting off in 2nd gear. Stock turbo makes boost around 1600rpm, 1800 would feel really laggy I'd think.

 

[mudgudgeon]

I have been following the drive pressure conversation and am interested in your thoughts on my Mamba hybrid. I installed a TD05-18g about 10k ago and for the most part pretty happy. My turbo has a gtx style 11 blade compressor and 9 blade exhaust turbine. Egts max at 1150f 1200f heat soaked motor afr 23:1 wot pulling up long hill. 25 psi set point.
I am looking for better part throttle cruising boost and improved spool. Currently starts to spool at 1800 , 15psi by 2000rpm, 25 psi at 2200rpm to redline. (Auto transmission makes it hard to get good numbers).
Do you think changing the exh turbine to a 12 blade design would improve drive pressure at lower rpms and throttle position? Or would changing to a 16g compressor be a better combo?
Not looking for a dyno queen with big numbers just better driveability. Any input would be appreciated.
Cheers

Both dougal and gerg have previously said an 11 blade turbine would be the ideal. They are available for td06, but not for td05, so 12 blade would be it.

12 blade will spool earlier, but it's more restrictive at higher RPM.
9 blade is less efficient which is the trade of for less restrictive flow.

 

[Wildnlost]

Both dougal and gerg have previously said an 11 blade turbine would be the ideal. They are available for td06, but not for td05, so 12 blade would be it.

12 blade will spool earlier, but it's more restrictive at higher RPM.
9 blade is less efficient which is the trade of for less restrictive flow.

Ok thanks. That is my conclusion from lurking about on the web. 160.00 for a turbine. I dont flog my truck to redline often and the trade off for better response would be worth it. Seems the gasoline crowd likes the 9 blade for top end. I will shoot a video of a second gear pull showing rpm and boost.

I noticed today my tach in the dash is about 200 rpm higher at 2000rpm than the digital tach on my turbo timer. Are the factory tachometers accurate?

 

[mudgudgeon]

Ok thanks. That is my conclusion from lurking about on the web. 160.00 for a turbine. I dont flog my truck to redline often and the trade off for better response would be worth it. Seems the gasoline crowd likes the 9 blade for top end. I will shoot a video of a second gear pull showing rpm and boost.

I noticed today my tach in the dash is about 200 rpm higher at 2000rpm than the digital tach on my turbo timer. Are the factory tachometers accurate?

Turbo requirements on gas vs diesel are very different.

Where does your turbo timer get is tacho signal?