Suspension issues (2 Viewers)

[ras209]

Hey all, newbie here. I recently purchased a 2019 200 series with an Ironman foam cell pro kit installed. It has a stage 3 kit but the upper and lower rear trailing arms are not installed and brand new in the box.

The issue is, when you accelerate hard it pulls to the right. It coasts and brakes straight. Toyota mechanics inspected the issue and found that the front coilovers are making contact on both sides. Could this cause the truck to pull right with acceleration?

I’m going to call the shop and have them adjust the front suspension but should I also have them install the rear upper/lower trailing arms? Will they make it easier for the installer get everything in line?

This is a family truck and spends 80% on road around town and 20% off road. Thanks in advance for any input on my situation.

 

[NikP]

I would install the upper and lower control arms before you try to attempt to figure out your pull to the right. Installing those will help correct all sorts of angle issues that may be a contributor to your problem. With it making contact on the lower control arm already, you know there's a problem regardless.

 

[ras209]

Got ya. Makes sense. Thank you

 

[empty80]

Two quick opinions from a random internet stranger:

1) The pulling to the right is likely torque steer due to the height of the truck and axle shift due to the panhard bar. If you like the height of the truck, there are two “common” correction brackets. The manufacturers are Eimkeith and DrKDSS. See more here.

2) Do you have aftermarket upper controls arms on the front? That could affect your contact. Also, that appears to be a lot of preload on the front coil. Does it feel like an overly harsh ride?

 

[linuxgod]

I'm not specifically familiar with the Ironman kit but rear trailing arms won't affect front alignment/suspension clearance. Front upper and lower control arms will though.

Looks like you may need aftermarket front upper control arms as well as an alignment. Start there, report back your alignment specs and check clearance. You shouldn't need lower control arms unless this is a long travel setup.

Torque steer happens for a number of reasons. One of them is if you are leaning to the left or right - make sure your suspension height is the same up front. Another is due to a lot of lift causing the rear axle to be off-center which @empty80 points out. Having very low offset wheels will exacerbate the problem. There can be other reasons too but I'd start there. In any case you will get a little bit of torque steer on a lifted truck when you go on/off the gas hard because the suspension geometry is no longer neutral.

BTW that CV angle looks steep. I'm assuming this photo was taken at full extension on a lift? If not, Houston you've got a problem.

 

[pdavis49]

What others have mentioned are more likely the culprit of your torque steer. I have the same Ironman setup with low offset wheels and experienced the torque steer you mentioned. Mine was not rubbing the LCA, so not sure what your problem is there. To resolve the torque steer issue. I pulled the struts and lowered the collars/preload, and it resolved the problem but still felt unstable over big dips. I then installed the Eimkeith Panhard correction kit and now it feels much better. I would also recommend doing the upper control arms while you are at it and then get an alignment done.

 

[ras209]

Two quick opinions from a random internet stranger:

1) The pulling to the right is likely torque steer due to the height of the truck and axle shift due to the panhard bar. If you like the height of the truck, there are two “common” correction brackets. The manufacturers are Eimkeith and DrKDSS. See more here.

2) Do you have aftermarket upper controls arms on the front? That could affect your contact. Also, that appears to be a lot of preload on the front coil. Does it feel like an overly harsh ride?

I’ll look into those brackets, thank you. I have the Ironman uca’s on the truck as well as the iron man lanyard bar. The truck rides nice, it’s not harsh at all. I called 4 wheel parts here in Stockton and they told me the pulling to right has nothing to do with the suspension. Toyota dealer is telling me it does. Im gonna take it to another suspension shop and see what they say.

 

[ras209]

I'm not specifically familiar with the Ironman kit but rear trailing arms won't affect front alignment/suspension clearance. Front upper and lower control arms will though.

Looks like you may need aftermarket front upper control arms as well as an alignment. Start there, report back your alignment specs and check clearance. You shouldn't need lower control arms unless this is a long travel setup.

Torque steer happens for a number of reasons. One of them is if you are leaning to the left or right - make sure your suspension height is the same up front. Another is due to a lot of lift causing the rear axle to be off-center which @empty80 points out. Having very low offset wheels will exacerbate the problem. There can be other reasons too but I'd start there. In any case you will get a little bit of torque steer on a lifted truck when you go on/off the gas hard because the suspension geometry is no longer neutral.

BTW that CV angle looks steep. I'm assuming this photo was taken at full extension on a lift? If not, Houston you've got a problem.

Yes, those pics were taken with the truck on a lift at full droop. I have the Ironman upper control arms on the truck and it has been aligned more than a few times recently. It coats and brakes straight, it only when you step on the gas it pulls. This is also my first lifted truck so all this is new to me. I’ve been driving 80 series for the last 15 years but they were all stock. I’m reading up on the cause and effects of torque steer. Thanks for all your info, much appreciated

 

[turbo8]

One thing that you can do that could rule out alot of other things is to swap your front tires from right to left and see if you still get the torque pull.

 

[ras209]

What others have mentioned are more likely the culprit of your torque steer. I have the same Ironman setup with low offset wheels and experienced the torque steer you mentioned. Mine was not rubbing the LCA, so not sure what your problem is there. To resolve the torque steer issue. I pulled the struts and lowered the collars/preload, and it resolved the problem but still felt unstable over big dips. I then installed the Eimkeith Panhard correction kit and now it feels much better. I would also recommend doing the upper control arms while you are at it and then get an alignment done.th ms for this info.

Yes, those pics were taken with the truck on a lift at full droop. I have the Ironman upper control arms on the truck and it has been aligned more than a few times recently. It coats and brakes straight, it only when you step on the gas it pulls. This is also my first lifted truck so all this is new to me. I’ve been driving 80 series for the last 15 years but they were all stock. I’m reading up on the cause and effects of torque steer. Thanks for all your info, much appreciated

What others have mentioned are more likely the culprit of your torque steer. I have the same Ironman setup with low offset wheels and experienced the torque steer you mentioned. Mine was not rubbing the LCA, so not sure what your problem is there. To resolve the torque steer issue. I pulled the struts and lowered the collars/preload, and it resolved the problem but still felt unstable over big dips. I then installed the Eimkeith Panhard correction kit and now it feels much better. I would also recommend doing the upper control arms while you are at it and then get an alignment done.

ok that’s good to know you had the same problem and were able to resolve the issue. I have the upper control arms installed on the truck as well as their rear springs and lanyard bar. Maybe lowering the collars is the ticket. Thank you

 

[hoser]

What are the front and rear suspension ride heights measured from the fender lip to the center of the hub?

 

[ras209]

One thing that you can do that could rule out alot of other things is to swap your front tires from right to left and see if you still get the torque pull.

Tires have been rotated several times with the same results. When this problem started I thought it was the tires for sure but unfortunately it’s not.

 

[TimCFJ40]

I’ll look into those brackets, thank you. I have the Ironman uca’s on the truck as well as the iron man lanyard bar. The truck rides nice, it’s not harsh at all. I called 4 wheel parts here in Stockton and they told me the pulling to right has nothing to do with the suspension. Toyota dealer is telling me it does. Im gonna take it to another suspension shop and see what they say.

Unless they installed the aftermarket suspension, the Toyota Dealer will always point to any aftermarket parts as the likely cause of your issues. And they're not entirely wrong, because it is much less likely to see this behavior on a stock suspension with all components in good working order.

I wouldn't trust most 4wheelparts stores to lift my lawnmower, so take their advice with a grain of salt also. Maybe your local branch has some knowledgeable folks, but in my experience if it isn't bolting on basic Jeep stuff, it's out of their wheelhouse.

The two most likely causes/solutions to me are:
1. Better alignment (possibly with new adjustable front upper control arms), done my someone familiar with dialing in the alignment for these types of suspensions.
2. Rear Panhard correction bracket - the adjustable panhard bar re-centers the axle, but it doesn't fix the fact that the bar isn't starting parallel to the axle. The higher the lift, the more the rear axle moves left to right under suspension cycling (such as the "squat" that happens when you hammer on the pedal).

Since you already have new UCA that should have corrected your suspension geometry, I'd go from least to most invasive:

1) New Alignment preferably by someone (different) that has experience with lifted IFS vehicles
2) Panhard correction bracket (you could do this first if you think your alignment is good, or don't have a lead on someone better than whoever did the current alignment)
3) Adjustable UCAs and fresh alignment

Also, don't discount that lifted vehicles generally sacrifice something when compared to stock. The easiest option (as long as the drift isn't severe or unpredictable enough to be unsafe) is to live with the behavior and accept it as a part of driving a modified vehicle. These types of things are hard to track down and don't happen to every vehicle because the stackup of tolerances between vehicles and parts lead to a wide array of real world outcomes. This is the same reason why tire rub with the exact same tire/lift/vehicle combination still has some variance from vehicle to vehicle.

 

[ras209]

Unless they installed the aftermarket suspension, the Toyota Dealer will always point to any aftermarket parts as the likely cause of your issues. And they're not entirely wrong, because it is much less likely to see this behavior on a stock suspension with all components in good working order.

I wouldn't trust most 4wheelparts stores to lift my lawnmower, so take their advice with a grain of salt also. Maybe your local branch has some knowledgeable folks, but in my experience if it isn't bolting on basic Jeep stuff, it's out of their wheelhouse.

The two most likely causes/solutions to me are:
1. Better alignment (possibly with new adjustable front upper control arms), done my someone familiar with dialing in the alignment for these types of suspensions.
2. Rear Panhard correction bracket - the adjustable panhard bar re-centers the axle, but it doesn't fix the fact that the bar isn't starting parallel to the axle. The higher the lift, the more the rear axle moves left to right under suspension cycling (such as the "squat" that happens when you hammer on the pedal).

Since you already have new UCA that should have corrected your suspension geometry, I'd go from least to most invasive:

1) New Alignment preferably by someone (different) that has experience with lifted IFS vehicles
2) Panhard correction bracket (you could do this first if you think your alignment is good, or don't have a lead on someone better than whoever did the current alignment)
3) Adjustable UCAs and fresh alignment

Also, don't discount that lifted vehicles generally sacrifice something when compared to stock. The easiest option (as long as the drift isn't severe or unpredictable enough to be unsafe) is to live with the behavior and accept it as a part of driving a modified vehicle. These types of things are hard to track down and don't happen to every vehicle because the stackup of tolerances between vehicles and parts lead to a wide array of real world outcomes. This is the same reason why tire rub with the exact same tire/lift/vehicle combination still has some variance from vehicle to vehicle.

Thanks for your comment, I appreciate you taking the time to help me out. As far as the alignment, I trust the shop that did it. As for 4wheel parts, I totally agree with you. I’m looking for a good shop in the valley or even Bay Area that can do the work. I’d love to take it to valley hybrid but they don’t work on 200’s. I’ve taken my 80’s there and always had good experiences. Like I said earlier, I’ve never had a lifted truck and it’s becoming a headache. I’m tempted to just put all stock suspension on the truck and be done with it. But before I do that, I’m gonna give panhard correction a shot. Thanks again

 

[777Gage]

I see you've already thought of this, I apologize - Can Georg diagnose this? at Valley Hybrids 209.475.8808
They do specialize in 40's, 45's, 60's, 80's etc. - He should be able to give you correct advice on the remedy and hopefully send you a recommendation for the 200

He's worked on my LC's - and he is on this board - @orangefj45

 

[GordJ]

When i experienced torque steer after a small lift i attributed it to the change in geometry with the pan hard bar. We changed the control arms to no cure and ended up reverting to stock. I still believe that ithe answer is correcting the pan hard geometry by either an adjustable bar or a different mounting bracket (my preference) but i dont know for sure that this is the answer.

 

[isthatalexus]

When i experienced torque steer after a small lift i attributed it to the change in geometry with the pan hard bar. We changed the control arms to no cure and ended up reverting to stock. I still believe that ithe answer is correcting the pan hard geometry by either an adjustable bar or a different mounting bracket (my preference) but i dont know for sure that this is the answer.

adding the panhard correction bracket made a ton of difference on my truck. suspension is BP-51. also, once the panhard bracket took that member to much closer to horizontal, it elimiated the unreasonable amount off a$$-wiggle I was getting on speed bumps/humps.

 

[ras209]

I see you've already thought of this, I apologize - Can Georg diagnose this? at Valley Hybrids 209.475.8808
They do specialize in 40's, 45's, 60's, 80's etc. - He should be able to give you correct advice on the remedy and hopefully send you a recommendation for the 200

He's worked on my LC's - and he is on this board - @orangefj45

George is awesome, and I would t take my 80 anywhere else. Unfortunately, they couldnt help with the 200 and simply told me they don’t work on them and they don’t work on lifts other people installed.

 

[ras209]

When i experienced torque steer after a small lift i attributed it to the change in geometry with the pan hard bar. We changed the control arms to no cure and ended up reverting to stock. I still believe that ithe answer is correcting the pan hard geometry by either an adjustable bar or a different mounting bracket (my preference) but i dont know for sure that this is the answer.

I may be converting back to stock as well. I bought this LC with the lift already on it, and I was a bit hesitant but I couldnt pass it up. My stock 80’s have always got me in and out of anywhere I wanted to go so I would t be mad converting the 200 to stock. Especially since it’s a family rig. That being said, I do have an adjustable panhard bar installed already and I’ll give correcting that a try before ripping all this off.

 

[ras209]

adding the panhard correction bracket made a ton of difference on my truck. suspension is BP-51. also, once the panhard bracket took that member to much closer to horizontal, it elimiated the unreasonable amount off a$$-wiggle I was getting on speed bumps/humps.

It’s funny that you mention that cause that was the first weird thing I noticed when driving this truck. We have speed bumps in my neighborhood and when you hit them the back end feels uneven. There’s a wiggle like you said.