Starter won't turn over AGAIN! (1 Viewer)

[Rifleman]

Went to the post office today which is about a mile drive from my house, (first time the truck had been starter all day so the engine wasn't hot) and when i got back into my truck to drive home the starter wouldn't turn over at all, Now I've been having this problem for awhile (i though i fixed it when i replaced both battery cables a few months back) so I'll give you a little background of what I've checked so far,

First the battery was replaced a few months back due to a bad cell so the battery is good, Next the starter was pulled and check out fine when tested at a auto parts store, Side note, i replaced the plunger and contacts inside the starter with Toyota parts about 2 years ago,

Next i replaced both the Negative and Positive battery cables with new #2 gauge copper battery cables, When i replaced the battery cables i also installed brand new battery lug terminals,

Here's what I'm seeing when i go to start my truck, the lights on the dash all light up like normal, including the check engine light, but when i turn the key from the off position to the start position i get noting from the starter, not a click, just nothing at all,

So i grabbed a socket wrench to tapped on the starter to see if the solenoid was stuck or hung up, still wouldn't start, Then i tried shifting the shifter lever back and forth between park and 1ST gear to see if maybe the NSS wasn't making good contact, but the truck still wouldn't start

Then after waiting a few minutes and trying the key switch again the truck started right up like nothing was wrong,

I'm starting to wonder if maybe I'm having a issue with the ignition switch mounted under the key cylinder, or if maybe I'm not getting good contact inside the neutral safety switch,

 

[Kernal]

Did you open the solenoid to look at the contacts and plunger? IME if those aren't right it doesn't take much heat to affect the starter ie: one good cold start then just clicks.

 

[Rifleman]

Did you open the solenoid to look at the contacts and plunger? IME if those aren't right it doesn't take much heat to affect the starter ie: one good cold start then just clicks.

As i stated above, i replaced those contacts with factory new parts about 2 years ago, When i removed the starter to have it bench tested awhile back i did open up the solenoid to examine the contacts and plunger they all looked fine, One last point, I'm not even getting clicks out of the starter when it dose this, I'm getting nothing, no noise at all

 

[Fj80oregon]

You could jump the starter with direct voltage from the battery and that would eliminate the starter being bad if it worked properly. That’s what I did when I ended having a corroded NSS that I cleaned up with contact cleaner that fixed the problem pretty easy to inspect that and clean it.

 

[jonheld]

It sounds like the starter logic signal is not getting to the starter.
Use a meter and diagnose. The starter logic path is pretty easy.
Battery positive/FL AM1/fuse AM1/ignition switch/NSS/starter.

 

[ChaseTruck]

…

I'm starting to wonder if maybe I'm having an issue with the ignition switch mounted under the key cylinder, …

Changing the ignition switch seems to have solved the intermittent no-crank on our ‘93

 

[Rifleman]

It sounds like the starter logic signal is not getting to the starter.
Use a meter and diagnose. The starter logic path is pretty easy.
Battery positive/FL AM1/fuse AM1/ignition switch/NSS/starter.

View attachment 3656240

Jon that's just what i would do, I'd use my meter to start tracing the starting circuit, only problem is, the truck has started working again so i can't start checking it to pinpoint the problem until it stops working again, Lets just hope that that problem doesn't happen when I'm out on the trail miles from nowhere,

Now for an update, i pulled the NSS and opened it up to see if it had any corrosion inside of it, and to make sure it was adjusted right, The inside was nice and clean, the only problem i found was all the 30 year old grease inside it was hard and dried out, So i cleaned all the old grease off, re greased it with some new grease, and put it all back together, So it looks like i can eliminate the NSS as the cause of my problem

 

[ajax1]

Do you have the factory alarm still plugged in by chance?

 

[Rifleman]

Do you have the factory alarm still plugged in by chance?

No the port installed alarm was one of the first things i pulled out when i bought my truck along with a dealer installed cell phone mounted under the center console,

 

[use2bn83]

Have you checked the connection where the NSS connects to the engine harness? If there is corrosion there, it can cause a no click no start as well. It’s a common corrosion point. It’s the 2 wire connector just below the PHH that goes to the NSS.

Ignition switches do go bad, but they are few and far between.

 

[Marco Lau]

Been there done that....replaced multiple starters, battery, wiring. etc. I ended up going with a FORD solenoid and never look back. The wiring for the NSS is faulty. Ppl are going to say you are replacing OEM parts with Ford parts, but it works and rather a cheap solution.

 

[Rifleman]

Been there done that....replaced multiple starters, battery, wiring. etc. I ended up going with a FORD solenoid and never look back. The wiring for the NSS is faulty. Ppl are going to say you are replacing OEM parts with Ford parts, but it works and rather a cheap solution.

When i was a young man in 1973 i had a SS Chevelle that had headers on it so i got very use to using my Chevy tool, better known as a hammer to beat on the starter when it got hot, Later on i install a Ford starter solenoid on the inter fender well and that took care of all my GM starter motor problems forever

Have you checked the connection where the NSS connects to the engine harness? If there is corrosion there, it can cause a no click no start as well. It’s a common corrosion point. It’s the 2 wire connector just below the PHH that goes to the NSS.

Ignition switches do go bad, but they are few and far between.

I'll check the connection you're talking about just to be sure it's corrosion free, As for changing out my ignition switch, It's 30 years old and has never been changed so it just might be the cause of my problem

 

[doc_random]

How old are the fusible links? I think @jonheld recommends changing with each new battery, so 3-4 years or so. This was my intermittent starting issue solved 5 years ago.

 

[Cruiser804]

I have battled this issue for years. There is another post here that shows the FSM process for installing the new contacts. This includes pressing the contacts into the housing with a press to 220ft lbs while torquing them. I have two starters. I used a press on both but i don't have a gauge. The first one I went easy. They second one I went in to the anxiety zone. The first one worked for about 6 months then started having the click no start issue. The second one has been in going on a year with no issues.

I'd pull the starter confirm the contacts are good and try to replicate the FSM process.

 

[jonheld]

I have battled this issue for years. There is another post here that shows the FSM process for installing the new contacts. This includes pressing the contacts into the housing with a press to 220ft lbs while torquing them. I have two starters. I used a press on both but i don't have a gauge. The first one I went easy. They second one I went in to the anxiety zone. The first one worked for about 6 months then started having the click no start issue. The second one has been in going on a year with no issues.

I'd pull the starter confirm the contacts are good and try to replicate the FSM process.

If the solenoid is not pulling in as the OP states, then the starter contacts are not the issue. That indicates that the logic signal from the ignition is not making it to the starter or the solenoid windings are open or the plunger is stuck in the solenoid bore.

On another note, using a press at 220 ft/lbs is freaking insane to me. All you need is a small block of wood to keep hand pressure on the contacts as you tighten the nuts. You're just trying to keep the contacts from rotating as you tighten, and the copper nuts don't have to be Godzilla tight as the copper will strip.

 

[Rifleman]

New update:
Well i took the dash all apart and replaced the ignition switch, When i removed the old switch it just all fell apart in my hand, tiny balls and springs going everywhere, Something tells me this may have been the cause of my starting issues,

After installing the new switch the truck started right up, lets hope it stays that way, Below is a photo of all the parts and pieces that came out of the old switch,
On a side note, I'm now getting close to 70 years old and climbing up under that dash to replace that switch, that's held in place by a tiny Philips screw was ZERO FUN, And reinstalling that tiny screw was even LESS FUN because you can't see crap up under there, you have to do it all by feel,

 

[Broski]

New update:
Well i took the dash all apart and replaced the ignition switch, When i removed the old switch it just all fell apart in my hand, tiny balls and springs going everywhere, Something tells me this may have been the cause of my starting issues,

After installing the new switch the truck started right up, lets hope it stays that way, Below is a photo of all the parts and pieces that came out of the old switch,
On a side note, I'm now getting close to 70 years old and climbing up under that dash to replace that switch, that's held in place by a tiny Philips screw was ZERO FUN, And reinstalling that tiny screw was even LESS FUN because you can't see crap up under there, you have to do it all be feel,
View attachment 3668943

I feel your pain !

 

[Kernal]

Agree, working up under the dash gets more difficult the older and stiffer we get. I hit up the Aleve before doing any work like that; a cheapo seat cushion
placed on the sill plate area helps protect your ribs and spine while laying down in that area IME.

Servicing your ignition switch

This is something 80 owners may never have to do but as I had the panels off and had been working in that area (see Bilt4Me's "My Ignition Broke" thread) I decided to take a look at the guts of the actual ignition switch while it was still attached to the cowl harness. Here's a link if you...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[jonheld]

On a side note, I'm now getting close to 70 years old and climbing up under that dash to replace that switch, that's held in place by a tiny Philips screw was ZERO FUN,

LOL. One of the things I've learned is to remove the driver's seat when doing work behind the dash, and wear a headlamp.
It sucks getting old, but after some pretty severe health issues, I've learned to embrace it.

 

[ChaseTruck]

Changing the ignition switch seems to have solved the intermittent no-crank on our ‘93

Didn’t do this myself, for all the reasons stated above - age, shoulders too wide, hands too big, fingers not nimble enough, eyesight not quite sufficient, back issues in minutes even with the driver’s seat gone…
We brought the truck to @richardlillard1 and @twalker9480 in Mesa, AZ.
And I swear Travis has a few extra joints in his arms and hands.