Builds Spyduh's Crawler80 Build (1 Viewer)

[Jason Andrews]

Are you just wanting to know your caster spec, or why go for an alignment when you can do it in the driveway?

FWIW, I can accurately measure my toe setting down to the 1/16" in about 3 minutes with a tape measure and some duct tape. That's the only thing they can set correct?

I've had way better luck with that than even the most knowledgeable cruiser shop in the country. (They did an alignment on mine 4 years ago and I found a loose wheel bearing immediately after)

It's been said a million times that the factory toe spec is blah blah and that you should set it toe'd in 1/8", 3/16" or 1/4" for bigger tires or something like that.

Well factory toe spec is for a full-time 4WD truck with 31" tires and not rear wheel drive truck on 37"+ tires. Personally I have tinkered with my toe a lot and I have mine set 7/16" or 1/2" toe in which seems to suit the setup much better.

If you think about it, a fulltime 4wd vehicle will force the front tires to toe in as power is applied; however a rear wheel drive will force the front tires to toe out when power is applied. So adding more toe in makes sense as I suspect 1/8" at static ride height would almost be zero when the front end lifts, and rear wheel drive pushes it down the road. Also, I know it seems simple, but getting the ram set in the middle of the steering travel is another thing to make sure it's done right.

Food for thought if it doesn't steer super kush.

 

[spyduh]

Are you just wanting to know your caster spec, or why go for an alignment when you can do it in the driveway?

FWIW, I can accurately measure my toe setting down to the 1/16" in about 3 minutes with a tape measure and some duct tape. That's the only thing they can set correct?

I've had way better luck with that than even the most knowledgeable cruiser shop in the country. (They did an alignment on mine 4 years ago and I found a loose wheel bearing immediately after)

It's been said a million times that the factory toe spec is blah blah and that you should set it to 1/8" to 3/16" for bigger tires or something like that.

Well factory toe spec is for a full-time 4WD truck with 31" tires and not rear wheel drive truck on 37"+ tires. Personally I have tinkered with my toe a lot and I have mine set at 7/16" or 1/2" which seems to suit the setup much better.

If you think about it, a fulltime 4wd vehicle will force the front tires to toe in as power is applied; however a rear wheel drive will force the front tires to toe out when power is applied. So adding more toe makes sense as I suspect 1/8" at static ride height would almost be zero when the front end lifts, and rear wheel drive pushes it down the road. Seems simple, but getting the ram set in the middle of the steering travel is another thing to make sure it's done right.

Food for thought if it doesn't steer super kush.

You mean like this.

Yeah I know how to do a DIY string alignment. I want the shop to do it so I can track my changes in my suspension for caster and toe after my changes. Doesn't cost me anyrhing.


I usually do 1/8 toe out with cardboard. At least that's what shoot for. Sometimes I get close sometimes I'm a bit off. DIY string alignment is close enough for a rock crawler.

I did this in Jan when I added the delta arms and changed the TREs and bar. as soon as I finish everything else im doing another quick string alignment before I drive to the shop. Plus I can see how I stack up versus a computer alignmemt.

 

[cody c]

Are you just wanting to know your caster spec, or why go for an alignment when you can do it in the driveway?

FWIW, I can accurately measure my toe setting down to the 1/16" in about 3 minutes with a tape measure and some duct tape. That's the only thing they can set correct?

I've had way better luck with that than even the most knowledgeable cruiser shop in the country. (They did an alignment on mine 4 years ago and I found a loose wheel bearing immediately after)

It's been said a million times that the factory toe spec is blah blah and that you should set it to 1/8", 3/16" or 1/4" for bigger tires or something like that.

Well factory toe spec is for a full-time 4WD truck with 31" tires and not rear wheel drive truck on 37"+ tires. Personally I have tinkered with my toe a lot and I have mine set at 7/16" or 1/2" which seems to suit the setup much better.

If you think about it, a fulltime 4wd vehicle will force the front tires to toe in as power is applied; however a rear wheel drive will force the front tires to toe out when power is applied. So adding more toe in makes sense as I suspect 1/8" at static ride height would almost be zero when the front end lifts, and rear wheel drive pushes it down the road. Also, I know it seems simple, but getting the ram set in the middle of the steering travel is another thing to make sure it's done right.

Food for thought if it doesn't steer super kush.

finally, someone else with the same perspective on the matter.

one thing I’ll point out though, is the trend to say “1/8” or 3/16, people should be defining it with wheel size, so 1/8 for 33-34” tires, cause people with 31’s and 38’s will be applying that.

it would be nice to get some data for handling with a range of toe in and toe out, but I agree for the most part... when the vehicle is pulling itself along in AWD it would likely want to pull the tires inwards more. For 2WD it’s not getting that and more toe in than factory spec makes sense.

when the vehicle is decelerating and the engine is slowing, it would want to toe out more though, it’s possible it would handle slightly slightly different when accelerating vs deceleration because the drive to the wheels may pull in or out.

we should probably consider backspacing too though, as the center of pivot of contact patch might create a greater or maybe even reverse effect

 

[spyduh]

finally, someone else with the same perspective on the matter.

one thing I’ll point out though, is the trend to say “1/8” or 3/16, people should be defining it with wheel size, so 1/8 for 33-34” tires, cause people with 31’s and 38’s will be applying that.

it would be nice to get some data for handling with a range of toe in and toe out, but I agree for the most part... when the vehicle is pulling itself along in AWD it would likely want to pull the tires inwards more. For 2WD it’s not getting that and more toe in than factory spec makes sense.

when the vehicle is decelerating and the engine is slowing, it would want to toe out more though, it’s possible it would handle slightly slightly different when accelerating vs deceleration because the drive to the wheels may pull in or out.

we should probably consider backspacing too though, as the center of pivot of contact patch might create a greater or maybe even reverse effect

Yea I just want the shop specs for my record so I know if I'm adjusting enough for my big ass tires.
39s and Part-time (RWD) ain't a factory truck anymore. I've been told by my retired mechanic buddy that I want at least a minimum 1/8 toe out for a crawler. Sometimes he says if it feels sketchy after a test drive, throw another cardboard to give me an additional 1/8. That would make it 2/8 and keep test driving till it feels right. Might be more or less, but that's what you start at and keeping adjust from there.

 

[Jason Andrews]

Interesting, that he recommended toe out for a rockcrawler. I wonder what it specifically addresses? Traction on the trail?

I was aiming to tune to best highway characteristics since the off road abilities wouldn't really be effected. Mine is set at 7/16" toe in. I think I had 1/4" toe out at one point by accident and it ran smooth as well. It was my thinking that it would want to wander on the highway with toe out and big tires and might feel like what low caster does. I haven't run both in ideal situations to compare.

Keep us posted on before and after numbers and driving results!

 

[jcardona1]

FWIW, I run about 1/2" toe-in on mine. I use a straight edge on the rotor to set toe.

 

[cody c]

FWIW, I run about 1/2" toe-in on mine. I use a straight edge on the rotor to set toe.

And you are part time and 37’s?

 

[jcardona1]

And you are part time and 37’s?

Yeah correct.

 

[spyduh]

Well I set the fan to 95 degrees. Relaized I'm a idiot and bought 20wt instead of 20k CST. You know what the difference is. It's 200 versus 20,000. Felt really easy to spin. At least I didnt mount it on the truck and caught myself. Ordered 20,000 CST hopefully it comes by next weekend so I can drain and fill

Worked on ABS and LPSV delete. Had the wife help inside working the brakes while i bled them. Hopefully it improves stopping power cause slowing 39s last time was scarrrrrry.

 

[spyduh]

Finally welded my drag link TRE bung ends. Tested my hydro and it turns 39s like butter on pavement. Pump and box is not making too much noise or whining. I did find a leak and its coming from the high pressure line. Souq is 175+sh for oem. I typically always go oem but thats a little steep and I've been spending to much money lately. Went with a Gates 365550 high pressure from rockauto. Two for $85 shipped. One for truck and one for spare.

Slee front 4in medium coils measure 19.25mm thick with 12 wraps.
Slee website description says Free Height
Driver Side - 505mm
Passenger Side - 515mm
@GW Nugget

 

[spyduh]

Eimkeith lower link armor welded in. Very well made and it was super easy to modify to make it fit with my 4x4labs sliders. Only had to cut 3 places to make it fit.

Edit: after looking at the pics of the armor. I should guesset that L cut so it's got a triangle for strength. Will do that tomorrow.

Slee 4+30mm front lift. 39s and trimmed fender. There is 8.5 inch gap from fender to lip.

 

[spyduh]

Rear diff breather mod. Used roughly 8ft of 1/4 fuel hose.

Lowes for some reason carries a 10ft roll for 7.xx. Was cheaper than buying it per foot at orileys autozone etc. I bought 2 rolls for 20ft. Waiting for my new diff breather for the front now.

Ready for Fordyce

 

[baldilocks]

I like the bungee cord driveline ground clearance mod...

 

[spyduh]

Got my ARP studs installed in the rear. Installed my rear wheeling bearings. Got a all metal grease tool to replace my plastic cone I shattered last time. Why didnt I buy this to begin with. The plastic one did last me 3 years tho.

Installed the Dobi yellow 4s.

Why did I build my front axle. Should have waited for my ARP studs. Now I need to remove and reinstall. Sigh. I'll be doing that tomorrow.

 

[mustcamp]

So I have had 39s over a year now . When mounting them the issue is you can't really get your back into because there in the wheel well. The way I have been getting them mounted is I jack the Reg up close to the height needed then lean the tire over to the axle then jack it up the rest of the way as the axle comes up the axle hub well catch the hole in the wheel and pick the tire/wheel up for you , now you just need to rotate it to line up the studs up and push it on. This well not work if you don't have a FF axle.
As for my spare it rides in the back under a cage, to get that in I role it up no a milk crate lean on the tail gate, then I can easily grab the bottom of the tire lift it up and slide it in.
All of this is in the comfort of my shop out in the wild I my have to improvise.

thats why you wheel with buddies

 

[baldilocks]

thats why you wheel with buddies

Wheeling alone is more intense. At night.

 

[spyduh]

Wheeling alone is more intense. At night.

That it is. I did it once with only my 5 year old in the truck and got in a situation. My younger days I would have pushed forward. After chainsawing 13 trees and looking at the clock at 930pm and still 2 miles away from camp. It took me 2.5 hrs to travel 5 miles already. My fatherly instincts kicked in and something told me this was a dumb idea going in alone with a 5 year old strapped to a middle car seat 5pt harness. Kid can't unbuckle seat belt, doesn't know how to get out to main road miles away, zero cell phone coverage. Even if the kid could, how would they relay info to get help.

Yea bad idea. Fatherly instincts said admit defeat and turn around.

Normally I could hit camp in 1.5hr off main forest road.

 

[baldilocks]

There is something more more impressive. Hopefully you will never know.

 

[spyduh]

My retired mechanic buddy finished my 529 rear yesterday. No wrenching time yesterday. But I did get a chance to wrench for a couple hours tonight. Popped in my diff, ff axles and rear driveshaft. Used brand new cone, washers, ARP studs and ARP nuts.

Filling 22k silicone oil into my fan clutch for tomorrows install. Need to remember to fill rear diff gear oil.

If I have enough day light after work, tomorrow will be Slee 4rin heavy progressive coils and 30mm poly manafree spacers + 10mm trim spacer on D side.

 

[spyduh]

Install went realy quick for these springs. Slee rear 4in heavy progressive. 30mm manfre spacers + 10mm trim packer on driver. 30mm manfre spacers on passenger. Still has a masssssive land cruiser lean on drivern side. Need to drive it around to let it settle in.

I installed the @DeltaVS rear spring retainers and it does not work too well with Slee coils and elocker. Had to cut the elocker side to clear the motor and carbide burr the top bracket on both sides to bolt up. I think Slee has the thickest coil which is slightly wider than the delta retainer. Anything is possible with a little fab work to make it fit. Once you start modding stuff with different aftermarket parts. You'll find things like the Eimkeith lower link brackets don't fit with the 4x4labs sliders. Welder, angle grinder, plasma and sawzall will make anything fit with enough time and work.

Took a break to eat dinner with the kids and that's when I had a hell of a time. Took 3 hours to change 1 high pressure line.

The high pressure line bolt would not break loose. The whole thing with the second fitting came off. I had to cut the hose and then cut the metal pipe in order to spin it off. While I was fighting it. I bent the return hard line.

Luckily I had a spare bad pump on hand from my Turbo80 build and salvaged it for parts. Buttoned it all up and calling it a night.

Replaced with a new Gates line. The lines good quality. Have a spare for the Turbo80 now.

Lessoned learned. Any time you in there doing PS work and its already out and hasn't been replaced. REPLACE IT. Thats one of those while you in there things to do. It was a major pain in the ass the second go


Edit.....
Forgot to update. I also installed my modded 22k CST blue fan clutch. No pics. Just pop on and tighten down.