Selectable diff locker debate (aftermarket). (2 Viewers)

[Squeegee]

I vote on just throwing the ARBs back in. You know they work fine. Harrops are great, but why bother buying something else if your lockers haven’t given you any issues?

 

[ChaseTruck]

So. Disclaimer first - I've been using ARBs since 1998, and have no experience with other locking diffs.

We have 3 vehicles with ARBs - the '85 K5, the '72 FJ40, and the '93 80.

No real problems on the K5, first in a 3/4 ton axle setup (10b front, Dana 60 rear), and the last dozen years or so in a 1-ton setup (Dana 60 front, 14b rear). So the last set is vintage 2011 or so. Issues were a few melted air lines that got too close to engine or exhaust (and one melted by a shop...), a compressor that would destroy the main O-ring (replaced many years ago with the mini compressor), and for many years the K5 would munch 1 main harness fuse per year. Lately the compressor runs a bit longer when I first turn it on, but after that it's business as usual.

The FJ40 has the ARBs from the late 1980s. No problems. Compressor is tired and cycles every three locks. There's a mini compressor for it on the shelf, for at least 6 years now...

No problems with the locking function on the '93 80 we acquired in 2012, but that one has the gear oil come out of the solenoid for the rear axle - again. It did it for many years and was ok until some 5 years ago the bonded copper line in the diff went from a crack at the junction to a break. Replaced with new part, and now the gear oil issue is back. Mini compressor runs longer than it should - I presume it's a gunked-up solenoid, no time to investigate just yet; we got the truck back yesterday from @richardlillard1 's shop after the head gasket replacement.

I would think the FJ40 has the most lock cycles - Claudia has the 'lock first, ask questions later' attitude. On the K5, I've gotten lazy with the locker button ever since the grippy 37s went on, but I have no issue using both ends when needed. There are places where I've become a big fan of 'front locker only'; those are turns where a locked rear would try to push the truck straight. Haven't tried that with the 80; there's something nice about having that D60 in the front of the K5....

For rock crawling, the thought that the locker would unlock when you need to reposition the truck in a tight situation to me is theoretically unnerving, but as stated above, I have no experience.

 

[JoeCova]

Inertia.

You need more life experience.

My bad, I guess Kansas has so much better snow wheeling I need to go out there for experience HAHA.

Enjoy my mud photo...

 

[Broski]

I vote on just throwing the ARBs back in. You know they work fine. Harrops are great, but why bother buying something else if your lockers haven’t given you any issues?

If it ain't broke don't fix it !!

 

[roflbox]

Alrighty then, I did some researching last night about the 3 (by research I mean watching youtube videos while almost asleep)

Here is a video from Harrop themselves about the engagement / and what happens when you go into reverse / drive:


I also watched a video from someone who showed a good example of some of the struggles of the eaton / haroop design, which was not even reversing, but if you were to roll back just enough to disengage the elocker, it seems that its a bit of a challenge to re-engage them:
The intro section captures the problem statement around elockers:


(The whole video above seems to be the most concise comparison between the 3)


On to air lockers:

Wont cover ARBs, since it seems everyone else has captured their thoughts on it.

TJMs:
They do infact exist in the US

Compared to the ARBs, there is just a piston that engages a locking plate in the assembly, only the piston is pressurized (not the locker or the diff), VS ARBs which pressurize the locker (and can lead to some of the oring failures)

 

[Broski]

I know this is about aftermarket lockers, but I would like to point out that the only locker that can be Manually engaged when theirs a issue is the OEM lockers

And the ARBs default to the open position when theirs a issue !

 

[lumbee1]

whew, this is dangerous path of thinking
if I get ARBs
might as well install the compressor in the cabin
which means I probably should get a QPM
and if I got that far, might as well switch to a dual battery setup
and with dual batteries, a switchpro would be cool

While you're in there, you might as well do a full axle service and regear to 4.88's.

 

[robmobile73]

All of these noted issues are why I put detroits in mine, front and back
and once you get used to them they are very predictable in their driveability and you can always depend on them to work
the issues of it being hard to steer is kind of a non issue as you can shift out of 4x if you need to
i realize this thread isnt about the viability of non selectable vs selectable lockers... but you can mitigate alot of said issues by going detroits
and in my mind its actually easier on things as you dont have the front diff trying to change the tires thats spinning when in 'open diff mode'
just a thought

I installed "lunchbox type" auto lockers front and back on my BJ73, on a Samurai I used to own, and on the rear end of my Tundra. Spartan lockers on the BJ73, lock rites on the tundra and Samurai. Spartan locker is a bit tight in the front end of the BJ73. Nothing ever broke. I would recomend them to anyone who wants lockers that doesn't plan on doing high power/speed rock/hill climbing with a v8 and tires bigger than 36".

Went off roading with some jeeps that had selectable lockers that do not differentiate when locked. Lunchbox lockers will allow the outside wheel to turn faster giving you some ability to differentiate. We were going through a uphill section in the rain with 4-6" red clay and needing to maneuver tightly between trees and big rocks. The jeeps with lockers locked could not turn and maneuver well in the red clay they just pushed straight and back with little ability to turn. They had to winch. With my BJ73 I was able to make the climb turning and maneuvering between the trees and rocks. I had better turning ability with the lunchbox type lockers.

Lunchbox types are about 1/3-1/2 the cost of most others.

All that said It would probably be better to have selectable type lockers if you want to drive on snowy/icy roads.

 

[BILT4ME]

OK, I'm reading on the Eaton E-Lockers now.

There are apparently (3) types.
ELocker-Pin Type
ELocker-4 Collar Style
ELocker-Direct Acting

Only thing available for an 80 Series is the Pin Type as near as I can tell. That's a hard NOPE for me. The roller ball and ramp or the pin and ramp is a hell no.

I guess I'll be doing ARB's when the time comes.

 

[JoeCova]

OK, I'm reading on the Eaton E-Lockers now.

There are apparently (3) types.
ELocker-Pin Type
ELocker-4 Collar Style
ELocker-Direct Acting

Only thing available for an 80 Series is the Pin Type as near as I can tell. That's a hard NOPE for me. The roller ball and ramp or the pin and ramp is a hell no.

I guess I'll be doing ARB's when the time comes.

ARBs also seem easier to retrofit into the factory switch if thats your thing. I've seen a writeup here on MUD wiring their harrop to the factory switch but a little more invovled.

 

[baldilocks]

First up, let me say I'm speaking as someone with no practical experience with lockers, just a rear LSD when it was working right. I have been planning to put harrop elockers in my 80 front and rear though. I'm not trying to shut down anyone's ideas, genuinely just looking to learn here.


So as I understand it, there's a half-wheel turn before lockup when changing direction (forward/reverse). Obviously when it locks there'll be sudden torque applied to the axle that previously wasn't spinning, but wouldn't it be similar to what you'd see if a slipping wheel caught traction, or you suddenly applied torque from a standing stop? Since by definition you'd have to change direction between forward/reverse from a point of being stopped, wouldn't the transition from stopped to a half wheel spin on the side without traction be gentle enough for this not to be an issue in terms of shock to the axle?

Likewise, from a control perspective, I'm not sure I see the problem. If one wheel slips for a half turn while changing direction, I mean, wouldn't you typically expect to have to spend a moment to "find grip" if you'd just switched from forward/reverse, even with lockers? I drive a manual though, and I don't think I'd ever really drop into reverse, really just release the clutch a bit and let it roll backwards. Would it even release the locker in this case with the driveline loaded? Official tech video claims not: (2:00)

Your post is focused on possible damage to the machine, which many posts here have been. I’m not a mechanical engineer but I have been a jet mechanic over 30 years and an automobile hobbiest just as long. I feel I have a decent understanding of these things. I think the engineers who designed the Eaton knew what they were doing. There are many of these units in service and lots of positive feedback.

For me, this whole thing is about being locked completely and constantly when I push the button because that’s why I pushed the button - to be locked 100% - until I no longer need to be locked.

 

[Broski]

ARBs also seem easier to retrofit into the factory switch if thats your thing. I've seen a writeup here on MUD wiring their harrop to the factory switch but a little more invovled.

If your going ARB it's nice to be able run what locker you want front or rear, Front only or rear only can't do that with the OEM switch

 

[baldilocks]

If your going ARB it nice to be able run what locker you want front or rear, Front only or rear only can't do that with the OEM switch

Way back when,, I thought it cool to wire my ARB’s to the factory dial switch. I’ll be tearing my dash apart for a couple of reasons here soon and changing over to individual switches will be done at that time. We’ll see how front digs go on the factory 8” diff.

 

[mudgudgeon]

We’ll see how front digs go on the factory 8” diff.

My 105 series had front and rear lockers individually switched.
Front digs are handy for sure, just go easy on how much steering lock you use while doing them. Birfs liked them less than the 8" diff

 

[baldilocks]

My 105 series had front and rear lockers individually switched.
Front digs are handy for sure, just go easy on how much steering lock you use while doing them. Birfs liked them less than the 8" diff

I’m running RCV shafts. I think they will out do the other parts.

What I’m still contemplating is which broke first, the ring and pinion or the CV head of the driveline. My guess is that the energy release of the diff gears stripping is what broke the CV head because I’ve been running 1310 CV’s since 2015 without breaking one.

 

[mudgudgeon]

I’m running RCV shafts. I think they will out do the other parts.

I'm sure they'll outdo OEM birfs.

I busted one doing a front dig in reverse, 35" muddies at <10 psi, close to full lock, and close to full noise.
Did what I needed it to, but peeled a tire of the rim, and popped a birf!
And to think, I was anxious about the high pinion 8" R&P saying NOPE

 

[baldilocks]

I'm sure they'll outdo OEM birfs.

I busted one doing a front dig in reverse, 35" muddies at <10 psi, close to full lock, and close to full noise.
Did what I needed it to, but peeled a tire of the rim, and popped a birf!
And to think, I was anxious about the high pinion 8" R&P saying NOPE

It’s becoming obvious that it’s a crap shoot. Reverse is usually when the R&P pop. As soon as I can I’ll go into the fix and post it real time to my thread.

 

[bj70bc]

It’s becoming obvious that it’s a crap shoot. Reverse is usually when the R&P pop. As soon as I can I’ll go into the fix and post it real time to my thread.

Ya, the r+p push apart instead of being pulled together like in forward gear...
I have found this out the hard way too, but it was in a suzuki so who gives a sh*t

 

[PNWTreeOctopus]

whew, this is dangerous path of thinking
if I get ARBs
might as well install the compressor in the cabin
which means I probably should get a QPM
and if I got that far, might as well switch to a dual battery setup
and with dual batteries, a switchpro would be cool

The struggle is real…

 

[PNWTreeOctopus]

It’s becoming obvious that it’s a crap shoot. Reverse is usually when the R&P pop. As soon as I can I’ll go into the fix and post it real time to my thread.

I will be following along.