Selectable diff locker debate (aftermarket). (8 Viewers)

[baldilocks]

I discussed this with a nice gentleman at Georg's shop Valley Hybrids in Stockton. My 80 didn't come with the lockers and I'd like to add them. He seemed to think Harrop is the way to go and what I probably will do in the very near future.

Find out how they work. My opinion and first gut feeling is that unlocking and re-locking for one half of a tire rotation when changing direction forward to reverse and so forth is not a good thing. It makes absolutely no sense to me.

I’d post the YouTube video I watched but I don’t have the capability. It’s a video comparing the ARB, Eaton, and TJM pro locker.

 

[mudgudgeon]

My ARB's had to be removed and re-sealed or I could have ignored the gear oil spewing out of the compressor along with the smell and just kept topping off the diffs.

That is or was a common complaint. I think that's where reducing the pressure comes into play
Makes sense to me too use the minimum pressure necessary to reliably activate them.

 

[mudgudgeon]

I’d post the YouTube video I watched but I don’t have the capability. It’s a video comparing the ARB, Eaton, and TJM pro locker.

Using a phone? Or computer?

 

[JoeCova]

Find out how they work. My opinion and first gut feeling is that unlocking and re-locking for one half of a tire rotation when changing direction forward to reverse and so forth is not a good thing. It makes absolutely no sense to me.

I’d post the YouTube video I watched but I don’t have the capability. It’s a video comparing the ARB, Eaton, and TJM pro locker.

How often are you backing up and going forward? I mean to be honest, I really cant think of a time when i would be just rocking back and forth like this. Sure you reverse/roll off an obstacle or take a new line but these are large movements when you are locked. Moreover, on difficult climbs or off camber crawling, your tries are slipping anyway sometimes while locked anyway so its not like you really lose anything having to wait for a small rotation.

The only time I can think that it might be annoying is if you roll back to give your self a bump but they re just going to lock back up when you move forward.

 

[ajax1]

I have arb installed by slee around same time as the op, 2010 it was the newer style at the time, don’t know if they have changed again since then. I have had no issues other then a melted air line from exhaust, fixed in 5 minutes. I think if your installer is familiar with arbs then you won’t have issues. I would do air lockers again no question. Two of my wheeling friends run arbs as well, one guy nonissues, other guy had a leak when very cold, slee fixed it and no issue since. No one in my circle runs the Eaton or harrop. Few buddies with e locker oem have issues with engagement. My wife’s 80 has oem lockers as well, she doesn’t wheel but I cycle the lockers once in a while, they work but are slow to engage where my arbs are instant.

 

[BILT4ME]

How often are you backing up and going forward? I mean to be honest, I really cant think of a time when i would be just rocking back and forth like this. Sure you reverse/roll off an obstacle or take a new line but these are large movements when you are locked. Moreover, on difficult climbs or off camber crawling, your tries are slipping anyway sometimes while locked anyway so its not like you really lose anything having to wait for a small rotation.

The only time I can think that it might be annoying is if you roll back to give your self a bump but they re just going to lock back up when you move forward.

In mud or snow.

In my past I have been stuck in either and slammed it forward to reverse and required the momentum to get me there.

The late 70's through 80's Chevrolet truck with full time 4WD had something similar in the front hubs. These were known as a weak point and I frequently saw exploded front hubs as a direct result of what we're discussing here. I sure as hell don't want that in a differential.

I had Eaton limited slips in my K10 and I successfully blew up four of them in the rear because of the inside wheel catching a slick surface in a corner, spinning, then catching on dry pack and blowing up the spiders.

The only thing I would feel confident with would be a Detroit locker to handle the direction change and HP.

Now I need to look into this more to look at the alternatives available. I didn't want to have to add a compressor and tank and all that crap to have selectable lockers.

How disappointing.

 

[JoeCova]

In mud or snow.

In my past I have been stuck in either and slammed it forward to reverse and required the momentum to get me there.

The late 70's through 80's Chevrolet truck with full time 4WD had something similar in the front hubs. These were known as a weak point and I frequently saw exploded front hubs as a direct result of what we're discussing here. I sure as hell don't want that in a differential.

I had Eaton limited slips in my K10 and I successfully blew up four of them in the rear because of the inside wheel catching a slick surface in a corner, spinning, then catching on dry pack and blowing up the spiders.

The only thing I would feel confident with would be a Detroit locker to handle the direction change and HP.

Now I need to look into this more to look at the alternatives available. I didn't want to have to add a compressor and tank and all that crap to have selectable lockers.

How disappointing.

Mud and snow usually have degrees of wheel spin, how does HALF a turn effect that in practicality. Check out MadMatt, he never really had an issue with it.

 

[baldilocks]

In mud or snow.

In my past I have been stuck in either and slammed it forward to reverse and required the momentum to get me there.

The late 70's through 80's Chevrolet truck with full time 4WD had something similar in the front hubs. These were known as a weak point and I frequently saw exploded front hubs as a direct result of what we're discussing here. I sure as hell don't want that in a differential.

I had Eaton limited slips in my K10 and I successfully blew up four of them in the rear because of the inside wheel catching a slick surface in a corner, spinning, then catching on dry pack and blowing up the spiders.

The only thing I would feel confident with would be a Detroit locker to handle the direction change and HP.

Now I need to look into this more to look at the alternatives available. I didn't want to have to add a compressor and tank and all that crap to have selectable lockers.

How disappointing.

ARB has this tiny compressor that would be dedicated to only your lockers. I had one in the Ramcharger I built years ago. You don’t need a tank.

I have a larger singe ARB compressor dedicated to the lockers and an Outback Extreme for other stuff. I have considered installing a tank and a manifold inline with the bigger compressor so I can eliminate the ARB compressor but I think redundancy is a good thing.

 

[leonard_nemoy]

That is or was a common complaint. I think that's where reducing the pressure comes into play
Makes sense to me too use the minimum pressure necessary to reliably activate them.

Well than I need to try to reduce the pressure because my lockers are older models and I don't want to replace seals again.

 

[John McVicker]

Subscribed.

I now have ARB air lockers front & rear of my 60. Rear was self installed with a friend 2 years ago & so far no issues. Front was just installed 2 weeks ago by Georg’s crew. No hard wheeling since the front install. Nothing to add but I’m subscribed.

This is a good thread.

 

[baldilocks]

Subscribed.

I now have ARB air lockers front & rear of my 60. Rear was self installed 2 years ago & so far no issues. Front was just installed 2 weeks ago by Georg’s crew. No hard wheeling since the install. Nothing to add but I’m subscribed.

This is a good thread.

Quite a few years now and lots of abuse and my ARB’s have worked very well. We experienced a couple of minor issues but this are we easily fixed and mostly human error.

 

[baldilocks]

Using a phone? Or computer?

I don’t have a gmail account which is required.

 

[baldilocks]

How often are you backing up and going forward? I mean to be honest, I really cant think of a time when i would be just rocking back and forth like this. Sure you reverse/roll off an obstacle or take a new line but these are large movements when you are locked. Moreover, on difficult climbs or off camber crawling, your tries are slipping anyway sometimes while locked anyway so its not like you really lose anything having to wait for a small rotation.

The only time I can think that it might be annoying is if you roll back to give your self a bump but they re just going to lock back up when you move forward.

When I want to be Locked, I want to be locked. Jammed up in rocks larger than my 37’s with only a few inches of room to maneuver back and forth gives no time for half of a tire rotation from locked and back to locked.

 

[bj70bc]

When I want be Locked, I want to be locked. Jammed up in rocks larger than my 37’s with only a few inches of room to maneuver back and forth give no time for half of a tire rotation from locked and back to locked.

Yes, BC's varied hardcore terrain presents many of these kind of circumstances as well

 

[Haggis]

Great thread and I am not ruling out ARB as an option. Keep the comments, info coming gentlemen!

 

[baldilocks]

Great thread and I am not ruling out ARB as an option. Keep the comments, info coming gentlemen!

I’ve already testified to the readiness and reliability of my 2010 ARB’s.

Pneumatics are a reliable source of muscle and control power used in many industries. Jets have been my bread and butter since my Air Force days. 36 years later I’m looking at the same basic systems.

There is no reason to fault or attack any companies products. I started this thread out of confusion generated from info I received from a couple shops that was counter to my own experience with ARB air lockers

 

[mudgudgeon]

The only time I can think that it might be annoying is if you roll back to give your self a bump but they re just going to lock back up when you move forward

In my cruiser, I would regular test an obstacle, stab the clutch, roll back a foot or two, adjust steering, and bump it up the obstacle again.

Doing this gives you another bite at the steering while the driveline is unloadedb without have to fight the driveline bind up to steer.
I can see the lock-unlock-lock being problematic for this

 

[BILT4ME]

Mud and snow usually have degrees of wheel spin, how does HALF a turn effect that in practicality. Check out MadMatt, he never really had an issue with it.

Inertia.

You need more life experience.

 

[DivByZero]

First up, let me say I'm speaking as someone with no practical experience with lockers, just a rear LSD when it was working right. I have been planning to put harrop elockers in my 80 front and rear though. I'm not trying to shut down anyone's ideas, genuinely just looking to learn here.

Harrop’s use a roller cam and three ball bearings. When the magnet is energized, and then you roll, the roller cam (actually a flat plate/ring that is machined with grooves that those ball bearings ride in is forced out word as the balls roll up into higher land. This takes about 1/4 axle shaft rotation. You are now locked. Reverse and the ring rotates back 1/4 turn, this is now unlocked. Another 1/4 turn in reverse and the locker locks up again.

How can this be good for axle shafts and diff’s? If a user is traversing very mild terrain all the time this may not be detrimental but rock crawling in serious stuff sometimes requires getting into wheel spin to heat those tires up. I can’t see being in a bind and liking how I loose lock up for .5 rotation of my tires.

So as I understand it, there's a half-wheel turn before lockup when changing direction (forward/reverse). Obviously when it locks there'll be sudden torque applied to the axle that previously wasn't spinning, but wouldn't it be similar to what you'd see if a slipping wheel caught traction, or you suddenly applied torque from a standing stop? Since by definition you'd have to change direction between forward/reverse from a point of being stopped, wouldn't the transition from stopped to a half wheel spin on the side without traction be gentle enough for this not to be an issue in terms of shock to the axle?

Likewise, from a control perspective, I'm not sure I see the problem. If one wheel slips for a half turn while changing direction, I mean, wouldn't you typically expect to have to spend a moment to "find grip" if you'd just switched from forward/reverse, even with lockers? I drive a manual though, and I don't think I'd ever really drop into reverse, really just release the clutch a bit and let it roll backwards. Would it even release the locker in this case with the driveline loaded? Official tech video claims not: (2:00)

 

[mudgudgeon]

Obviously when it locks there'll be sudden torque applied to the axle that previously wasn't spinning,

This happens if you engage any locker on the fly.

With OEM lockers, I'd turn them on when I thought I was going to need them, often while rolling.
Quite often they don't engage immediately.
They'll engage when one wheel spins more than the other.
It's not like one axle is not spinning at all and the other spinning at 1000s of rpm. Plus, when you're using lockers, your generally in low range moving at low speeds, unless, like @baldilocks said, spinning the tyres fast to get some heat into them, or trying to clear mud from tread.
The oem lockers only need 1/6 of a turn difference across the diff centre for the lockers to have a chance to lock. ARB lockers, even less.


in my mind, having eatons lock - unlock- lock seems like you'd lose some predictability in his much traction you have. Not sure if that would be the case or not