Search for truth- Front Diff and Oil Pan Exposure Question (2 Viewers)

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If you were in a non-fault accident but the repair was completed by a certified shop, should that not be on your record?

You were in an accident. Instead of hitting a flagpole, you hit a rock. It needs to be documented. Period.

I don't want to belabor the point, because it absolutely needs to be documented. But how does this "VEHICLE MAY ALSO HAVE INTERNAL ENGINE DAMAGE" help a consumer or another service tech in the future? What is internal engine damage? Internal to what? The valves? The exhaust manifold? What? Does it or does it not have internal engine damage? Was it or was it not repaired to the satisfaction of the service tech or the customer.

The service logs on my truck are from three different Lexus dealers and are very thorough and do not contain ambiguous statements. If it says that there is a suspected problem, there is an explanation of what was done to address it.

I'm not sure how this is even remotely controversial.
 
I don't want to belabor the point, because it absolutely needs to be documented. But how does this "VEHICLE MAY ALSO HAVE INTERNAL ENGINE DAMAGE" help a consumer or another service tech in the future? What is internal engine damage? Internal to what? The valves? The exhaust manifold? What? Does it or does it not have internal engine damage? Was it or was it not repaired to the satisfaction of the service tech or the customer.

The service logs on my truck are from three different Lexus dealers and are very thorough and do not contain ambiguous statements. If it says that there is a suspected problem, there is an explanation of what was done to address it.

I'm not sure how this is even remotely controversial.

Yeah i agree with both of yall. There is grounds for BS here with the dealership though. "2 spooky 4 me" is not a valid note.
Things that are speculative and written poorly like that need to be valid. "could have" this or that is where my issue is.

I would ask the dealer to leave it "impacted engine underside" or whatever. Not anything so vague and scary.
You can put somehting like that on any vehicle "this vehicle may be a lemon" ok... but wheres the actual evidence?

I would be upset OP and ask it to be reworded at least.
 
I think some may be giving too much credit to these companies.

The point of a VIN report is not to help the buyer in some sort of meaningful way, it is to make the buyer feel better about a potential purpose and generate piles of revenue for the Carfax/Autcheck company. :)

Besides, they just aggregate information from a variety of data sources and put it on a nicely formatted form. The source if the data (shop, insurance company, dmv) is the issue - garbage in, garbage out. They don't curate it.

I wouldn't trust anything on a carfax that I couldn't verify for myself. Caveat emptor.
 
I think some may be giving too much credit to these companies.

The point of a VIN report is not to help the buyer in some sort of meaningful way, it is to make the buyer feel better about a potential purpose and generate piles of revenue for the Carfax/Autcheck company. :)

Besides, they just aggregate information from a variety of data sources and put it on a nicely formatted form. The source if the data (shop, insurance company, dmv) is the issue - garbage in, garbage out. They don't curate it.

I wouldn't trust anything on a carfax that I couldn't verify for myself. Caveat emptor.
At the end of the day the carfax can significantly impact the value of a vehicle though.

I agree.. factual information should be in the service history, not speculative. “Possible internal damage” is 100% speculative.
 
I think some may be giving too much credit to these companies.

The point of a VIN report is not to help the buyer in some sort of meaningful way, it is to make the buyer feel better about a potential purpose and generate piles of revenue for the Carfax/Autcheck company. :)

Besides, they just aggregate information from a variety of data sources and put it on a nicely formatted form. The source if the data (shop, insurance company, dmv) is the issue - garbage in, garbage out. They don't curate it.

I wouldn't trust anything on a carfax that I couldn't verify for myself. Caveat emptor.

I agree, but you and I are not average buyers. Some people think a carfax is 100% accurate for the life of a vehicle.

Putting Carfax aside, even just for future service, having the Toyota service record be as accurate as possible is very important. If I am a tech and have no other information except what I read in the service logs, I am thinking WTF? if I see "may have internal engine damage". I am troubleshooting an issue and have no idea how extensive the damage might have been or what the tech actually checked out. I can look at the work orders and invoices and guess, but at that point, Id' just start from the beginning.

In any case, I definitely didn't intend to turn it into a thing, but its frustrating to see how lazy some of these techs are. If they can't be bothered to write a decent summary of the situation, why would you trust that they completed a $9k repair job with any degree of competence.
 
why would you trust that they completed a $9k repair job with any degree of competence.

You just don't. You have someone like bloc look at it for you.

I have carfax car care btw and i can add whatever notes i want! In case yall didnt know bout dat.
 
Thanks all- this entire episode has caused me to lose my f-ing mind and change my user name and avatar. I will deal with the rest of the truck bull**** later.

Behold Diff Kraken.

Signed,
The MUD user formerly known as PRADO3

diff kraken.jpg
 
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Part II of III

OK... @bloc, if you're still game, I'm ready for Part II of III. Part III is when I eventually snag a 200 series. In the meantime, I met up with my local TLCA club and got this 5th gen 4Runner up on a lift to take some pictures to see how the front diff, diff brackets, and oil pans are set up- and how they could have died such a horrible death so easily. I was installing new skids, and a 1" front spacer and didn't have time to take measurements- but here's what it looks like underneath. The factory steel "splash guards" normally keep this all covered up. I'm still wondering what these neither regions look like on a 200. If you're willing to lift up her skirt, I'd love to see what she's got under there so we can compare bracket girth, diff proximity to oil pans, etc.

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Part II of III

OK... @bloc, if you're still game, I'm ready for Part II of III. Part III is when I eventually snag a 200 series. In the meantime, I met up with my local TLCA club and got this 5th gen 4Runner up on a lift to take some pictures to see how the front diff, diff brackets, and oil pans are set up- and how they could have died such a horrible death so easily. I was installing new skids, and a 1" front spacer and didn't have time to take measurements- but here's what it looks like underneath. The factory steel "splash guards" normally keep this all covered up. I'm still wondering what these neither regions look like on a 200. If you're willing to lift up her skirt, I'd love to see what she's got under there so we can compare bracket girth, diff proximity to oil pans, etc.

View attachment 2907000View attachment 2907001View attachment 2907003View attachment 2907004View attachment 2907007

Not sure if these will help as the skids are on, but here's mines junk.

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Thanks!

Thanks! Are those metal or plastic factory "skids"?
Factory. Think the fronts are some sort of metal, but could be wrong never really analyzed it. The middle pan is some sort of dimensional composite, I did notice that.
 
The factory SPLASH SHIELDS are mix and match - front three piece stamped steel, transmission plastic, transfer case guard steel, gas tank stamped steel.


I can highly recommend Budbuilt if you want actual protection. A full set of 3/16 stainless will run you less than a new differential or transfer case at the dealer. Beware, though, they're heavy.
 
The factory SPLASH SHIELDS are mix and match - front three piece stamped steel, transmission plastic, transfer case guard steel, gas tank stamped steel.


I can highly recommend Budbuilt if you want actual protection. A full set of 3/16 stainless will run you less than a new differential or transfer case at the dealer. Beware, though, they're heavy.
Yup- it's got an RCI skid on there now... I really like the look of that OEM 200 series transfer case guard. That's pretty nice.

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The 200 series also has stamped steel front diff mount guards that are pretty thick. These are usually removed if installing aftermarket skids.
 
I really like the look of that OEM 200 series transfer case guard. That's pretty nice.
Unfortunately the OEM 200 transfer case guard is weight bearing on the transfer case . . . It's a web of piping and a stamped steel piece that bolt on to the TC with a dizzying number of bolts.
 
Well the bad news is with the right rock a 200 wouldn't fare any better.

I was thinking the bottom of the front diff was tucked up above the skids some, but that's really not the case. It is slightly above the level of the diff mount guards that @turbo8 mentions. Along with those guards is a center spine that the front splash guards mount to. It is pretty substantial, but would get squished in a hard hit.

Further, there is about an inch of clearance between the diff and engine. Now I don't doubt toyota designed this to take some abuse, and the nature of the higher power, bigger driveline, more weight, etc, stands to reason the diff mounts are more solid than those in the 4runner/GX, which should help prevent upward deflection. But how much?

Also, if the engine is headed downward against its mounts due to some inertia..

Either way the diff is pretty exposed, and the engine is pretty close to that.

The pictures make the diff look closer to the middle oil pan than they are. About an inch of clearance in reality.

All of this makes me think twice about wanting to avoid the weight of some more protective skids. Not that we've heard of your failure happening on a 200 yet.

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Driver side splash guard removed. Prominent is the center spine and diff mount guard. You can see the bottom of the diff just peeking out.. it is actually just above the plane.

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Yeah, I form fit my AL TC front skid to that front diff space going too fast and braking too late last summer. Very hard hit into a cross road ditch type obstacle. I was pretty glad the airbags didn't deploy.
This pic kind of shows the deformation into that area.

4D8B1338-4B16-415F-B19B-4BEE3D1CCE5F.jpeg
 
Well the bad news is with the right rock a 200 wouldn't fare any better.

I was thinking the bottom of the front diff was tucked up above the skids some, but that's really not the case. It is slightly above the level of the diff mount guards that @turbo8 mentions. Along with those guards is a center spine that the front splash guards mount to. It is pretty substantial, but would get squished in a hard hit.

Further, there is about an inch of clearance between the diff and engine. Now I don't doubt toyota designed this to take some abuse, and the nature of the higher power, bigger driveline, more weight, etc, stands to reason the diff mounts are more solid than those in the 4runner/GX, which should help prevent upward deflection. But how much?

Also, if the engine is headed downward against its mounts due to some inertia..

Either way the diff is pretty exposed, and the engine is pretty close to that.

The pictures make the diff look closer to the middle oil pan than they are. About an inch of clearance in reality.

All of this makes me think twice about wanting to avoid the weight of some more protective skids. Not that we've heard of your failure happening on a 200 yet.

View attachment 2907263

Driver side splash guard removed. Prominent is the center spine and diff mount guard. You can see the bottom of the diff just peeking out.. it is actually just above the plane.

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Awesome pics- thank you! It looks to me like that diff mount guard would have prevented the failure I experienced. I'm impressed to be honest.
 
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OK- Mystery solved- Truth found- Thread Concluded!

200 series 1, 4Runner 0 for OEM protection from death by small rock impact. I think this is definitive.

I really think the 200 series would not have had any issues with the same impact. Look closely at the images below and let me know what you all think...

The damage to my 4Runner:

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4Runner Front Diff layout and Exposure:

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Your 200 series with it's diff mount guard:

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