Right tool for the job - a discussion of rig design and usage (2 Viewers)

[Bludozer]

Anybody have an aux tank to feed their 80? Seeing as how the offroad capability of these trucks isn't really disputed, I'm curious about the weak points. I have jerry cans and a way to mount them. Not a bad solution. I think an aux tank would be better. Thoughts?

Everyone will have an opinion on this, but I don't think an aux tank is worth it. You are adding lots more complication, it is quite expensive, and you add a lot of weight directly behind the rear axle. A replacement main tank with larger capacity is a better option, but the current offerings hang very low and are still quite expensive. Dealing with the mild inconvenience of jerry cans is the best option at the moment.

 

[Wrencher93]

Everyone will have an opinion on this, but I don't think an aux tank is worth it. You are adding lots more complication, it is quite expensive, and you add a lot of weight directly behind the rear axle. A replacement main tank with larger capacity is a better option, but the current offerings hang very low and are still quite expensive. Dealing with the mild inconvenience of jerry cans is the best option at the moment.

Doesn't LRA offer a replacement main that's above the frame rail? Maybe I'm dreaming.

 

[Wrencher93]

My main concern other than convenience is weight. Yes, you'd be adding weight behind the rear axle but you'd be doing the same thing if you mount jerry cans to the rear bumper. And if you put them on the roof rack (my current solution) that's a lot of weight up high. Not good for offroad driving.

 

[APhelps]

I would, however, welcome input from people who have done an engine rebuild or swap. I know a couple guys have piped up already and I'm sure there's more. Again, my primary interest is the bigger picture for those of you who use your 80 as a family vehicle. That might mean DD to some, maybe not for others - but using it as a means to get you, your loved ones, friends, pets, and maybe even your favorite co-worker off the beaten path. This is how I plan to use mine and why we've all been jabbering on for 7 pages. For those of you who rebuilt your engine or still have the original drive train: have you experienced any failures or adverse wear from long road trips? What I'm getting at is having to rev the engine for extended periods of time to maintain highway speeds. Anybody see this trash their 80?

I can't speak on failures/adverse wear but 4.10s on anything but 33s and below is going to suck all the power out of the 80 and cause you to constantly be WOT in the mountains. If you're driving on anything 35 or + on factory gearing it's flat out awful and if anyone says otherwise they aren't driving at elevation. You'll need to re-gear the truck to at least 4.56s, I'd love to tell you how the truck drove on 315s and 4.88s but my gears came far too late for a recent trip. While the LX could still use a turbo, supercharger or an engine swap I'd be willing to wager that the truck is tolerable to drive in Colorado and such now.

 

[Bludozer]

Doesn't LRA offer a replacement main that's above the frame rail? Maybe I'm dreaming.

Here is a pic of how the LRA replacement sits.

Yes, you'd be adding weight behind the rear axle but you'd be doing the same thing if you mount jerry cans to the rear bumper.

Most definitely not the same. All that weight, that low, quite literally directly behind the rear axle will have a different effect on overall driving dynamics than having jerry cans mounted higher up off your rear bumper.

 

[White Stripe]

I have an 80 for a few reasons. I was open to any vehicle of any brand, and I thought it over carefully. I am no longer brand loyal and i know a decent amount about other brands. I was also open to modifying any vehicle for my needs if some mods needed to be done which was for travel in south america and hauling any loads within reason that needed to come with. Thus the v8 swap I wanted if I chose the 80. I really weighed every Toyota 4x4 and many other model 4x4s. I also wanted a vehicle that if south america fell through I still had a useful daily driver. The reasons I chose the 80:
1. For all the people it can haul. 2. For its overall simplicity yet comfort. You can go newer but newer vehicles get more complicated. More complication means greater difficulty to modify/repair. For example the 80 has very little in the way of body control modules. 3. The size of it allows for ease of use in traffic, but large enough in size to handle a decent load. I considered a tundra but they are pretty wide and more difficult to handle in cities and tight parking. 4. The solid axle suspension is comfortable and durable, and at the same time very simple and parts for it are easy to get. 5. It retains value fairly well so I should get some money back out if I sell it. 6. They don't rust very easily if you take of them. Fj60s for example rust a lot. 7. The 9.5" rear axle can handle some abuse, as can the front axle. The 100 series front end is odd and not very strong. But I guess would work OK. I could have solid axle swapped a 100 series but the 2uz is not that powerful and I didn't really want the electronic brakes.

In conclusion, I should have just bought a 200 series and just dealt with it being more of a behemoth on the street. Or sold the basket case 80 I bought and gotten a better starting platform 80. But the 80 is pretty much done, and now that it is, I would rather have it as it is now than a 200 series. It fits my needs better. But the amount of labor to get it here was a pain. I really didn't mean to do so much work. I meant to buy a swapped 80 series that needed some work. The one I bought needed a ton of work. I stubbornly pushed on which is what I tend to do.

 

[Wrencher93]

Here is a pic of how the LRA replacement sits.
View attachment 2464758


Most definitely not the same. All that weight, that low, quite literally directly behind the rear axle will have a different effect on overall driving dynamics than having jerry cans mounted higher up off your rear bumper.

Not trying to start an argument, trying to learn. Why, exactly, would that be any different? The rear axle is the nearest load bearing point in terms of the vehicle as a whole. So weight mounted on the bumper vs under the frame still loads the rear suspension. Only difference I see is an off-camber situation where the height above the rear axle would drastically affect stability.

 

[Wrencher93]

@White Stripe I agree with you about the size of the 80. It's definitely bigger than a jeep or 4runner which can mean a tight squeeze on some trails but allows for more interior space (important if hauling more than one person). At the same time it is small enough that riding said trails is not altogether out of the question. I think an argument could be made that, for a family who actually wants to drive places requiring real 4x4 capability, the 80 is an ideal balance in terms of size.

 

[Bludozer]

Not trying to start an argument, trying to learn. Why, exactly, would that be any different? The rear axle is the nearest load bearing point in terms of the vehicle as a whole. So weight mounted on the bumper vs under the frame still loads the rear suspension. Only difference I see is an off-camber situation where the height above the rear axle would drastically affect stability.

Lol. No argument here, these types of discussions can be good. Worth pointing out I'm no mechanical genius either, but there is a lot more to it than just what is the "nearest load bearing point". Proximity to that point, proximity/placement to the vehicle as a whole + many other things I would imagine all play a part in how its going to feel on the road and how it effects stability. I'm not saying that a full LRA tank is going to make your 80 feel like a haphazard jalopy, but it will definitely change how it feels in comparison to a couple of jerry cans off the rear bumper.

 

[Wrencher93]

Lol. No argument here, these types of discussions can be good. Worth pointing out I'm no mechanical genius either, but there is a lot more to it than just what is the "nearest load bearing point". Proximity to that point, proximity/placement to the vehicle as a whole + many other things I would imagine all play a part in how its going to feel on the road and how it effects stability. I'm not saying that a full LRA tank is going to make your 80 feel like a haphazard jalopy, but it will definitely change how it feels in comparison to a couple of jerry cans off the rear bumper.

Ah, I think I read your first post wrong. I definitely agree that 20 or more gallons of fuel in an aux tank is different than 10ish gallons on the back bumper - more weight = a larger effect on vehicle dynamics. I was talking more about placement. I understand that weight on the rear of the vehicle can cause the front to walk if it's excessive. But, weight being equal, I don't see a difference between bumper mount and the spare location.

 

[TWILLY]

I added an LRA 24 gallon aux tank and love it. It's really, really nice to not worry about range, great for stockpiling cheap gas and it expands self-supported route planning options (away from towns). I doubt it weighs any more than an aftermarket bumper to carry jerry cans with half the fuel capacity. The weight is noticeable but doesn't cause squatting or affect handling.

I really like the size and capability of 80s--larger than a midsize, smaller than a full size. The 112" wheelbase maintains good breakover, the tall cabin has lots of space to haul lots of stuff, it's got good payload capacity (1900+lbs on the early 80s), and rigid axles with loads of downtravel keep wheels on the ground in more severe terrain. It's a unique combination of size and capabilities unlike anything else sold in the U.S. since Toyota stopped production.

 

[Wrencher93]

I added an LRA 24 gallon aux tank and love it. It's really, really nice to not worry about range, great for stockpiling cheap gas and it expands self-supported route planning options (away from towns). I doubt it weighs any more than an aftermarket bumper to carry jerry cans with half the fuel capacity. The weight is noticeable but doesn't cause squatting or affect handling.

I really like the size and capability of 80s--larger than a midsize, smaller than a full size. The 112" wheelbase maintains good breakover, the tall cabin has lots of space to haul lots of stuff, it's got good payload capacity (1900+lbs on the early 80s), and rigid axles with loads of downtravel to keep wheels on the ground in more severe terrain. It's a unique combination of size and capabilities unlike anything else made since Toyota stopped production.

You have any trouble dragging that 24 gal tank on rocks? Just curious. It looks huge.

 

[Wrencher93]

@TWILLY I bet having the extra range is nice. What's your primary use for your 80? Just as a reference point.

 

[TWILLY]

You have any trouble dragging that 24 gal tank on rocks? Just curious. It looks huge.

No. It tucks up really high -- probably higher than the spare did.

 

[TWILLY]

@TWILLY I bet having the extra range is nice. What's your primary use for your 80? Just as a reference point.

My 80 is a dedicated camper these days. So, dirt touring -- long trips, camping closer to home.

 

[Wrencher93]

No. It tucks up really high -- probably higher than the spare did.

View attachment 2464837

I remember seeing a few pictures of these and for some reason they looked like they hung down lower than that. I'm on a mild lift with 35's and have a Slee rear bumper so I wonder how it would jive with the LRA tank.

 

[TWILLY]

I remember seeing a few pictures of these and for some reason they looked like they hung down lower than that. I'm on a mild lift with 35's and have a Slee rear bumper so I wonder how it would jive with the LRA tank.

There are two LRA aux tanks for the 80: One is 24 gallons, the other is 42. In my opinion the 42 compromises ground clearance too much. I don't know their compatibility with the Slee bumper (fastenings for either).

 

[Pierce]

Agreed, the 42 hangs down very low. The 24 tucks very well. The only downside I’ve found to the LRA aux tank is loosing the spare tire location. But after going to 315’s you mostly lose the ability to mount a spare there anyway.
I don’t notice a handling difference between 48 gallons of fuel or an empty fuel load. I do notice 1/2” of rear suspension squat when fully fueled up. After I burn 10 gallons the squat is unnoticeable.
Supporting mod for aux tank is a faster transfer pump btw. The standard pump takes 45ish minutes to transfer. The rabbit hole doesn’t go too deep if you don’t “need” a rear bumper to mount that spare.

 

[NCFJ]

I've read through your thread and there is a lot of good information. I am surely not an expert but I have done quite a few LS/Vortec swaps into Land Cruisers with success. Here are some thoughts.

The LS/Vortec platform is hands down the most used platform in all types of vehicles. There is good reason for that. These motors are rock solid and will last just as long as the Toyota 6 cylinder if maintained. There is plenty of documentation of fleet vehicles running 300-500K miles with only oil/filter changes and a set of plugs here and there.

Some mention has been made regarding "Frankenstein" swaps. Well sure, that can be said about a swap with any motor if done incorrectly. But, truth is that a well sorted LS/Vortec swap yields a vehicle that is very reliable and has a level of parts support that is hard to even compare with other motors, other than a small block Chevy. Add to that that they are easy to work on and there is a wrench in every town that can work on them.

We've all read about the guys that can do a vortec swap for $5K. True enough. Yet we have all read about the same swaps putting the owner in the garage every weekend wrenching on the truck instead of driving it. Why anyone would go to the trouble of doing a modern motor swap in a 25 plus year old vehicle and not upgrade the supporting systems is beyond me. It's like asking for trouble. I use new, high performance radiators, new fuel pumps, filters, regulators, new fuel lines, new trans cooler lines, auxiliary trans coolers, auxiliary PS coolers, new radiator and heater hoses, new AC condenser, drier and hoses.

Harness work is done by professionals along with computer flashing. Crate motors come with all new harness work. I also use new gauges. The OEM gauges were vague when new and I'll be damned if I will use hacks just to get a tach to work correctly. A temp gauge that reads C to H, really. What is normal C and a half, five eights? I don't know, do you? Same applies to oil pressure.

The point is, when done right an LS/Vortec swap is a game changer. Our trail rig is a 1995 80 series. It is sitting in front of my shop with a 5.3L/4L65E/split case in it waiting for me to finish up the swap and a laundry list of other items. It'll have a Ron Davis Racing radiator in it and an LRA long range tank mounted behind the rear axle being used as the primary tank. It has a new harness made by Wayne at 150tunes.com and an ECU flashed by Wayne as well. I have no question about the reliability of the equipment.

In regard to value, if you do not think that a swap to a modern motor will increase the value of your Land Cruiser you are kidding yourself. I know that Land Cruiser are "special" but they are vehicles plain and simple. The market for older vehicles heavily favors them to be upgraded across the board. Like it or not, an 80 series that has been lifted, larger tires, armor and all the rest falls into the category of Resto-Mod. The people buying these vehicles want to jump in them and go, anywhere, and they want it to drive like a modern vehicle. Very few people care if a Land Cruiser, or any vehicle for that matter is "OEM Stock" any more.

In the end, each individual owner will do what they think is right and what they can afford at the time. Hopefully those changes will net them a truck that they can take out and enjoy and won't let them down. None of them are right or wrong, just different. Bottom line is to just do what you do and have fun with it

 

[Wrencher93]

Agreed, the 42 hangs down very low. The 24 tucks very well. The only downside I’ve found to the LRA aux tank is loosing the spare tire location. But after going to 315’s you mostly lose the ability to mount a spare there anyway.
I don’t notice a handling difference between 48 gallons of fuel or an empty fuel load. I do notice 1/2” of rear suspension squat when fully fueled up. After I burn 10 gallons the squat is unnoticeable.
Supporting mod for aux tank is a faster transfer pump btw. The standard pump takes 45ish minutes to transfer. The rabbit hole doesn’t go too deep if you don’t “need” a rear bumper to mount that spare.

Already have the rear bumper so problem solved