Sounds to me like you have particularly bad luck. Either that or your truck hates you.
Yeah no kidding. While there are a lot of things to be done on these old vehicles you shouldn't even be spending more than gas money each time to go offroad.
Right tool for the job - a discussion of rig design and usage (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter Wrencher93
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Yeah no kidding. While there are a lot of things to be done on these old vehicles you shouldn't even be spending more than gas money each time to go offroad.
Deferred maintenance does that. But also, driving abusively. I don't deny it. It's a choice, but I didn't realize I was so aggressive until I went out with some groups and saw how they drive. Bunch of grannies, but they don't have the mechanical issues I do, so....
- Thread starter
- #223
Kinda hard to have an opinion since I've never seen you drive. But I'd say if you're breaking stuff every time you use the vehicle it's either you or something is under-built for your use. I hear you on the repair bills though, that stuff adds up quick.
Sounds like you should just build a buggy. If going offroad each time is costing you 1k than there's much better alternatives.
Ok, so let's take care of the admin stuff first, shall we?
Yes, I have read other threads.
Yes, I know the search function works.
Yes, I know there is no clear cut answer to the questions I'm about to ask because, well, it's like asking what type of pizza is the best.
So, for those up for a friendly and informative discussion about the build process as a whole - welcome and please share whatever information you feel is relevant and useful.
Let me get down to the point by laying out the questions I hope to answer for myself (or at least get closer to an answer):
1.) If you were going to use your 80 as a family adventure vehicle (as many of us do) capable of both moderate to hard wheeling as well as seeing many highway miles - what would your choice build look like in terms of engine/transmission, lift height, tire size, etc? I realize this is a massively broad question - it is meant to be. I want opinions. Facts are welcome and I want the opinions to be based on reasonable arguments but this isn't a "how to" thread this is an exercise in imagination and long term decision making.
2.) If you were starting with a 1997 FZJ80 with 249k miles, 2" lift, and 35's with stock gears - which of the following (if any) would you pursue?
a.) Engine rebuild and Wit's End turbo
b.) Cummins 6bt swap with Toyota trans
c.) Cummins 6bt with manual trans
d.) Toyota engine swap (fill in the blank)
e.) LS swap (which one?)
f.) PM the heck out of it and leave it the hell alone (also read, keep stock)
Let me fill in a few gaps by sharing my personal reqiurements/wants for my truck.
Requirements:
1.) Gets me where I need to go (read reliable)
2.) Has reasonable parts availability over the next decade, or more. Doesn't have to be the cheapest or MOST common - but available enough that it won't be a total witch hunt for parts when I need them.
3.) Can be driven thousands of miles with no issue, assuming a sane driver and reasonable PM
Wants:
1.) Enjoyable to drive both offroad and at highway speeds
2.) Enough power to pass on the interstate
3.) OK gas mileage - notice I said "OK" not "good"
4.) Makes sense financially - that doesn't mean "cheap" or "practical" it means "am I getting a return, in terms of experience, that is comparable to how much coin I'm dropping on this project?"
There ya, go. Flame suit on.
I'll answer 2 first. Having started with a 255k cruiser a couple years ago based on my experience I would PM the heck out of it and swap to 4.88 gears to better work with the 35's. You may also need to address rubbing with your lift/tire size combo. Body lift or bump stop extensions (I personally have the body lift as I did not want to limit the up travel).
As to question 1, based on my personal experience over the past 5+ years of ownership. I started my project with the goal of having a hard core wheeler. However, as time went on and my family grew to love the cruiser I went down a road of making it very reliable and very capable but would pass on the extreme stuff. That said my truck gets me into places where I would never dream it could. It's comfortable on the road, handles great, holds my family of 4 and all our stuff and is frankly a joy to drive. I've taken it on some pretty difficult trails but nothing where body damage was inevitable (although I have hit the body a couple times). With the stock 1FZ it's not a power house but I can go 75 all day long and get to speed in a reasonable amount of time (if you feel under powered it's probably the gears you have with 35's). So for this build I would stay stock drive train, get your gearing set right for the tires you want to run, rebuild engine if it's burning oil. I would probably jump up to a high quality 3 inch lift but no taller. Run new radius arms to correct castor but keep the rest of the suspension stock (you may have to get a rear panhard bracket if your handling gets weird with the lift, mine did, some don't). I would not go larger than 35's as tires become harder to find in remote areas and you start to get into drive-ability issues for long distance travel. Frankly my 33's get me where I need to be and keep me from trying things I probably shouldn't. From my time wheeling this truck the biggest things you need are rock sliders, a stout front and rear bumper, skid plate protection for at least your transfer case and a winch. As long as you aren't afraid to drag metal over obstacles, and don't think winching is a fail, these items will get you a ton of cool places.
- Thread starter
- #226
Thanks for taking the time to respond. This kind of input is why I made the thread. That being said, if you read the thread I explain that I'm already lifted, have front and rear bumpers, a winch, etc. At this point I have no desire for more than a 35" tire because of all that is involved in making the vehicle drive and handle correctly. Maybe some day but there are other mods I want before 37's. I am already considering the panhard lift bracket and 4.88's are on my list - but I appreciate the perspective from another person who has them. That just makes the decision that much easier.
So just for grins if you figure $3 a gallon for fuel and assume a stock drivetrain gets 12mpg and a swap will get you 20mpg you "save" about $1k for every 10,000 miles driven.
I'm telling you...$1,000 a trip. It's not that things break that much, it's that you don't discover it or realize it until you stress the vehicle.
2 new items by Matt Fouts
photos.app.goo.gl
Even so, I need to replace worn parts with upgrades going forward.
Sorry I took your question 1 as more of if you were building a rig for this type of use what would you do? Understood that you had some of these things already but I didn't take the question as starting with any particular set up other than stock, that was addressed in question 2. Looking at your rig, other than gears and maybe some more camping comfort items I wouldn't change a thing. Wheel on...
- Thread starter
- #230
No man, you had it right. Sounds like I was the one who read wrong. Thanks for responding
- Thread starter
- #231
Ok so I know this is a 105, not an 80...but same engine and this is the kind of crap that has me wanting a turbo. For your viewing pleasure:
- Thread starter
- #232
I figured this video fit well in the "rig usage" category. Skip to about 15:45 if you want to see why an 80 is a better than a Gladiator. No offense to the jeep crowd..Ok, a little offense..but I'm sure the gladiator is a cool vehicle. Wheelbase does matter though.
my 97 on 35's, with 4.88's, lockers, some add ons, and heavy preventive maintenance, goes just about anywhere. don't have a build thread here, but i'm on the gram @ 80landcruiser_pnw
when it comes time for a repower eventually, i'm gonna stick with rebuilding the 4.5
would love to put a 5 speed in at that time though.
when it comes time for a repower eventually, i'm gonna stick with rebuilding the 4.5
would love to put a 5 speed in at that time though.
sbman
Supporting Vendor
I got my 80 for basically the same mission, family adventure vehicle, but for me to also to function as a daily driver. To that end, I've done a 2" lift, 33's, sliders, bumper, winch and dual batteries along with a variety of smaller upgrades.
What I didn't want was to be nickel and dime'd to death with a 20+ year old vehicle that always needed some thing done to it. So I bought one with a pre existing blown head gasket and did a full rebuild. I did a ton of 'while I'm in there' stuff including replacing all the rubber hoses and rubber parts, replaced the AC compressor, and used basically all OEM parts. I overhauled the front axle and put a locker in 'while I was at it'. I have 90K on it now since the rebuild and it's basically filled the mission well.
I use an RTT with the kids, and slide my camping gear in and out in tubs. At some point a drawer system and a fridge is on the list. Dealing with the cooler and finding ice on trips is a hassle, especially the longer more remote ones. I kept it to 2" lift and 33's because it's enough for what I do and where I want to go, negated the need to do extensive mods to make the handling work correctly and I don't really need to regear. It will go places easily that a lot of other vehicles struggle to reach and that's plenty for me. I'm still planning on a rear bumper for some protection back there as well as tailgate storage, would like to have a good home for the tow straps and winching gear, I really need to get that spare out from under the vehicle.
I put the dual batteries in as a small 'house' buss powered by that battery and a solenoid to join it to the rest of the vehicle whenever I want, I join it when I'm winching or when I just want to charge it. When I add the fridge it will be wired to that battery.
I'm still planning to do a rear axle overhaul and add a rear locker as well as refresh the bushings back there, at the moment it's all original. I have not found it to be an expensive vehicle to drive (aside from gas) and rarely have anything break, but I drive it conservatively in general and on the trail I take it slow and easy.
I think that for the family adventure role, sliders, a mild lift, somewhat oversize tires and probably bumpers is the basic recipe, and in that order. Add in your choice of camping gear, a good dose of maintenance to keep wear items up to snuff and you end up with a very usable, very reliable rig that is good on the highway and also on the trail. The fine details of the setup are driven by your preferences to a large degree and the degree of difficulty of the trails you intend to run regularly as well as how much convenience you want built into the setup. Your rig is basically there aside from adding whatever niceties you want to make things easier/smoother on trips.
What I didn't want was to be nickel and dime'd to death with a 20+ year old vehicle that always needed some thing done to it. So I bought one with a pre existing blown head gasket and did a full rebuild. I did a ton of 'while I'm in there' stuff including replacing all the rubber hoses and rubber parts, replaced the AC compressor, and used basically all OEM parts. I overhauled the front axle and put a locker in 'while I was at it'. I have 90K on it now since the rebuild and it's basically filled the mission well.
I use an RTT with the kids, and slide my camping gear in and out in tubs. At some point a drawer system and a fridge is on the list. Dealing with the cooler and finding ice on trips is a hassle, especially the longer more remote ones. I kept it to 2" lift and 33's because it's enough for what I do and where I want to go, negated the need to do extensive mods to make the handling work correctly and I don't really need to regear. It will go places easily that a lot of other vehicles struggle to reach and that's plenty for me. I'm still planning on a rear bumper for some protection back there as well as tailgate storage, would like to have a good home for the tow straps and winching gear, I really need to get that spare out from under the vehicle.
I put the dual batteries in as a small 'house' buss powered by that battery and a solenoid to join it to the rest of the vehicle whenever I want, I join it when I'm winching or when I just want to charge it. When I add the fridge it will be wired to that battery.
I'm still planning to do a rear axle overhaul and add a rear locker as well as refresh the bushings back there, at the moment it's all original. I have not found it to be an expensive vehicle to drive (aside from gas) and rarely have anything break, but I drive it conservatively in general and on the trail I take it slow and easy.
I think that for the family adventure role, sliders, a mild lift, somewhat oversize tires and probably bumpers is the basic recipe, and in that order. Add in your choice of camping gear, a good dose of maintenance to keep wear items up to snuff and you end up with a very usable, very reliable rig that is good on the highway and also on the trail. The fine details of the setup are driven by your preferences to a large degree and the degree of difficulty of the trails you intend to run regularly as well as how much convenience you want built into the setup. Your rig is basically there aside from adding whatever niceties you want to make things easier/smoother on trips.
- Thread starter
- #235
I agree wholeheartedly with this approach. If my 80 hadn't been built when I bought it I certainly wouldn't have jumped straight to adding everything it now bears. Don't get me wrong, I'm pretty happy with how it is or I wouldn't have bought it. But the more I learn, both about wheeling and about vehicles in general, the more I see why a lot of popular modifications are unnecessary for most use cases. That being said, I have what I have and I'm probably not going to undo any of it any time soon. So like you said, do the maintenance and keep on driving.
The other thing that matters is experience and driver skill. The Jeep driver was afraid of damaging his fender flare, so he kept moving further to his passenger side to avoid the offending tree. This just put him more off camber and leaned his body into the tree . Though it seems counterintuitive, he should have hugged the tree, keeping his stance level.
