Review: Delta VS Panhard Lift Bracket

[-Spike-]

They do two things. First, when your truck was lifted, the panhard ended up at an angle relative to the axle. Normally it's parallel to the axle. As the panhard travels through an arc it pulls the axle to one side. If you look down the side of your truck from the rear you can probably see that the rear axle is shifted slightly over to the passenger side while the front axle is shifted slightly to the driver's. The front moves the opposite way because the panhard on the front axle attaches to the axle on the opposite side of the rear. So, the bracket will put the rear panhard closer to parallel with the axle, centering the axle under the truck. This is purely aesthetic, it doesn't make the truck drive any differently to have the axles shifted to the side.

Second, as the suspension cycles, the panhard angle changes. Because it is already at an angle, the amount that the axle moves side to side as the suspension moves is magnified. So, when you hit a bump, the axle moves side to side a bit, causing the body to shift side to side. The lift bracket should minimize this movement. Same effect both on and offroad, although you will hit more bumps offroad. It takes a significant amount of suspension travel to move the axle an appreciable amount. My springs are probably stiffer than most so I don't notice the 'wagging' movement. Plus I just don't care as much as some people. My truck only goes wheeling, and comfort is third in line behind capability and my limited budget.

Unfortunately the front geometry is such that the panhard and drag link need to be at the same angle, so there's no easy way to fix this 'problem' on the front axle. You can get an adjustable panhard and center the axle for aesthetics, but that can lead to other issues if you run very large tires and stuff them into the wheelwells.

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

They do two things. First, when your truck was lifted, the panhard ended up at an angle relative to the axle. Normally it's parallel to the axle. As the panhard travels through an arc it pulls the axle to one side. If you look down the side of your truck from the rear you can probably see that the rear axle is shifted slightly over to the passenger side while the front axle is shifted slightly to the driver's. The front moves the opposite way because the panhard on the front axle attaches to the axle on the opposite side of the rear. So, the bracket will put the rear panhard closer to parallel with the axle, centering the axle under the truck. This is purely aesthetic, it doesn't make the truck drive any differently to have the axles shifted to the side.

Second, as the suspension cycles, the panhard angle changes. Because it is already at an angle, the amount that the axle moves side to side as the suspension moves is magnified. So, when you hit a bump, the axle moves side to side a bit, causing the body to shift side to side. The lift bracket should minimize this movement. Same effect both on and offroad, although you will hit more bumps offroad. It takes a significant amount of suspension travel to move the axle an appreciable amount. My springs are probably stiffer than most so I don't notice the 'wagging' movement. Plus I just don't care as much as some people. My truck only goes wheeling, and comfort is third in line behind capability and my limited budget.

Unfortunately the front geometry is such that the panhard and drag link need to be at the same angle, so there's no easy way to fix this 'problem' on the front axle. You can get an adjustable panhard and center the axle for aesthetics, but that can lead to other issues if you run very large tires and stuff them into the wheelwells.

Actually 3 things It also raises roll axis for less body roll in corners. This is worth noting if you use you 80 series for travel. For many having a good handling vehicle can reduce driver fatigue making a day of driving much nicer.

To help understand why the Panhard/J-Bar is so sensitive it pays to think out all relationships that change based on how it is located. First off, the front roll center gets involved as the roll axis (the line drawn through the front roll center extending through the rear roll center) is affected. As you lower the Panhard/J-Bar you also lower the roll angle and the center of gravity gains leverage because the distance from the roll axis line and the Center of Gravity is increased. The result is a car that rolls more due to the leverage increase and the added distance from the CG allows for roll around an arc with what is basically a larger diameter.

As you raise the roll axis the distance from the Center of Gravity is less and the car rolls less. In this case, there is more of a direct force applied to the right rear tire. Seems so simple yet there is more to think about.

The need for a properly set up panhard will become more or less apparent as more guys install and post feedback. Many DIY guys here on Mud have been running the set up for years with positive results.

 

[baldilocks]

That's where it's weird. As I said the road manners are super awesome for what it is. Would the bracket give better articulation when wheeling or are they just for on road performance?

Toyota did not design your Landcruiser with the suspension geometry it now has. Lifting a truck is fraught with compromises and most of us just deal with the resulting degraded high speed handling so we can enjoy improved off-road performance. Correcting all suspension geometry compromises back to stock is more work than most want to tackle, have the skills to tackle or the money to pay a shop to accomplish. If you are happy with your Landcruiser, that’s all that really matters.

From the pics you posted, your 80 has no body lift. What you are seeing are good vibration isolators.

 

[thatcabledude]

What the??

 

[bryson]

What the??

View attachment 1758294

What the what? That's a very average and normal looking stock body mount. Yours should look the same.

 

[Outsane]

Bracket on order, after driving over Donner pass in a rig that looked like a tree year old that has to pee really bad. Happy Full House GIF - Find & Share on GIPHY

 

[thatcabledude]

What the what? That's a very average and normal looking stock body mount. Yours should look the same.

Yeah, he was snapping pics of his body lift though... How I read it anyway. LOL

 

[bryson]

Yeah, he was snapping pics of his body lift though... How I read it anyway. LOL

It has been determined that there is no body lift on that truck. Those are stock body mounts.

 

[baldilocks]

Bracket on order, after driving over Donner pass in a rig that looked like a tree year old that has to pee really bad. Happy Full House GIF - Find & Share on GIPHY

Mine felt just like the girl in the video looks as I made my way over Donner pass a couple years ago. When my left rear tire passed me, I deduced that the “wiggle” I had been feeling in the seat of my pants was loose lug nuts. I’m fabbing my own track bar riser this week.

 

[EvanD]

Haha, yea I'm the idiot that assumed I had a body lift because the previous owner said there was a body lift. Obviously not the case.

Thanks for the input, all!

-Evan

 

[Cass007]

Nothing to add to the suspension discussion as I know basically nothing about that topic, but if you have a body lift from 4Crawler you will most likely see 6 white pucks under the truck. You can see them in the front before the bumper was mounted.

 

[murf]

Installed and 5 days of driving later, I can say that my 80's rear end has settled down nicely , I don't miss the wiggle. Under hard compression it might contact my redirected exhaust pipe..or may not. Ill find out soon enough.

Got mine from Land Cruiser Products - LCP

Thanks LCP for the typically fast delivery

 

[TWILLY]

@LandCruiserPhil and others: Opinions on this rig being candidate? Reading the thread, it sorta seems so. I replaced front control arm bushings but still get more wandering than I'd like. My truck measures 22.5" from front wheel center to fender lip; the bar angle is shown below.

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

@LandCruiserPhil and others: Opinions on this rig being candidate? Reading the thread, it sorta seems so. I replaced front control arm bushings but still get more wandering than I'd like. My truck measures 22.5" from front wheel center to fender lip; the bar angle is shown below.

View attachment 1762460

This is what mine looked like before.
If you are wandering I would say this would not be the fix.
If you notice/feel movement when you hit bumps at highway speed or feel the shift when you go over speed bumps then I would say yes.
Bottom line it will correct the geometry and put it back the way Toyota designed it.

In stock 2 days away

 

[TWILLY]

@LandCruiserPhil Thanks

 

[EvanD]

Actually, now that I think about it, my truck may have great road manners IMO but where I always hate it is washboarded roads. It's not an environment I drive in often and it slipped my mind. The ****er def wanders and sucks under braking in that case. Maybe I'll add one to my list after all.

 

[alia176]

Actually, now that I think about it, my truck may have great road manners IMO but where I always hate it is washboarded roads. It's not an environment I drive in often and it slipped my mind. The f***er def wanders and sucks under braking in that case. Maybe I'll add one to my list after all.

This is an extreme scenario where most rigs would have a squirly rear end if the tire pressures weren't correct for the condition. I also attribute the rear end wanting to come around with improperly valved (tuned) rear shocks. So, go easy on your rear track bar, she didn't mean it!

 

[Jason Andrews]

I had the opportunity to get my 5" DeltaVS bracket mounted up before heading to SAS2 in Ouray. It makes quite a bit of difference depending on the terrain you are driving.

The best way I can explain the issues it addresses is when going over a speed bump or seam in the highway it does not have the "bump sway" like it used to. It used to feel like my rear tires hit the bump at different times so it jostled you side to side. Now it is much more of a straight up and down coil spring bounce over the bumps.

 

[alia176]

I had the opportunity to get my 5" DeltaVS bracket mounted up before heading to SAS2 in Ouray. It makes quite a bit of difference depending on the terrain you are driving.

The best way I can explain the issues it addresses is when going over a speed bump or seam in the highway it does not have the "bump sway" like it used to. It used to feel like my rear tires hit the bump at different times so it jostled you side to side. Now it is much more of a straight up and down coil spring bounce over the bumps.

Excellent feedback, thank you sir. One of these days I need to make the SAS2 event.

 

[Saddletramp]

Installed mine this weekend, simple to do. Now I need some seat time. My lift is OME 863 rears and J’s up front. The tires do seem more centered now.

Before

After

No, I don’t have leaks under my truck, I use the cardboard to capture the dirt and drips of doing service.

Extremely happy with the way the product is made and ease of installation.