Builds Over the Hills, and Far Away (1 Viewer)

[Sundowner]

Okay, things have happened - more on that later - but for right now, I need opinions: I need to settle on a tubing diameter for the cargo rack supports.

I'm considering 1", 1.125" and 1.25" tubing at appropriate thicknesses...or 25, 28 and 32-ish mm for those of us with modern metrology. I'm basically going to be making a hoop at the windshield, a pair of uprights or a second hoop at the rear of the tub, and I might - repeat, might - tie those pieces together front-to-rear with a subframe to which the existing rack will bolt, because Additional Reasons; don't worry about how it'll all mount and connect...this is only a question of diameter. I used to run a Gobi on my Jeep, and its largest members were made from 1"/25mm tube...and it was plenty strong. That being said: thinking ahead, I have more uses for larger tubing diameters in other locations. 1"/25mm is fine for some things, and 1.125"/28mm would be appropriate for a few additional projects, but 1.25"/32mm would be very useful...so that's my leading contender. I don't really want to double up on bender dies right now, so, opinion:

Do I go with 1", 1.125" or 1.25" for the cargo rack subframe?

 

[Sundowner]

Saturday Morning Update: I may have answered my own question with the tubing. I found a paint roller handle that's exactly 1.25" in diameter, and that's honestly the smallest that I'd want to go...at least as far as aesthetics are concerned. I could likely go up to 1.5" and still have it look acceptable; strength-wise, 1.25" is more than enough, though... especially if it's .120"-wall. Here's a quick-terrible photo for comparison.

Pictured: Ceiling art.

I think that size will work. I think I also need to finish painting the garage ceiling, and I'm going to need to create some kind of flat fixture surface for welding... because I don't have that at all, currently. And that's not an inexpensive piece of tooling to buy.

 

[Sundowner]

Small Progress Update: I started sketching out a rough timeline and scope for the cargo rack support project - it helps when I have a project/program manager for a housemate - and the first thing on their list was "create better workspace."' Consequently, I've had to reorganize the entire garage to make a better workspace, and it's become clear that without said space, I'm not going to make any progress. So... that's where all of my efforts have been focused for the last few days; the area is in much better shape, but I'm no closer to figuring out a welding table/area. I've looked at a number of possible solutions/products/companies, but there's no clear winner...and before "just build your own!" comes up: yes, that's an option. That's my last option. I've been in one or another aspect of design, construction and manufacturing for my entire career, and if I've learned anything it's that errors always stack: your starting point will always impact your endpoint. In this case, starting from the flattest and squarest available surface is going to help immeasurably...and that's pointing me towards a commercial option. I don't really want to spend that money, but I'd rather build rack parts correctly the first time than risk building them twice...or more.

 

[Rigster]

Okay, things have happened - more on that later - but for right now, I need opinions: I need to settle on a tubing diameter for the cargo rack supports.

I'm considering 1", 1.125" and 1.25" tubing at appropriate thicknesses...or 25, 28 and 32-ish mm for those of us with modern metrology. I'm basically going to be making a hoop at the windshield, a pair of uprights or a second hoop at the rear of the tub, and I might - repeat, might - tie those pieces together front-to-rear with a subframe to which the existing rack will bolt, because Additional Reasons; don't worry about how it'll all mount and connect...this is only a question of diameter. I used to run a Gobi on my Jeep, and its largest members were made from 1"/25mm tube...and it was plenty strong. That being said: thinking ahead, I have more uses for larger tubing diameters in other locations. 1"/25mm is fine for some things, and 1.125"/28mm would be appropriate for a few additional projects, but 1.25"/32mm would be very useful...so that's my leading contender. I don't really want to double up on bender dies right now, so, opinion:

Do I go with 1", 1.125" or 1.25" for the cargo rack subframe?

I will go with the obvious recommendation since you basically answered your question yourself....
"but 1.25"/32mm would be very useful...so that's my leading contender"

I tend to use products that check the most boxes. My top checkboxes are quality, durability, usefulness - how many different jobs can this single item do? We cannot even guess at all the ideas that you may have in store for the 3 options above, but if you are saying the 1.25/32mm will check the most boxes...

 

[AirheadNut]

I would go with a 1.25" to start with. Not too big for a roof rack support cage and big enough for other structural projects where 1" would not quite cut it. My tubing bender came with 1", 1.125", and 1.25" round dies; I have used the 1" a fair bit, the 1.25" the most, and have never used the 1.125".

 

[Sundowner]

I will go with the obvious recommendation since you basically answered your question yourself...

Given time, I usually get to an answer; it's also usually the wrong one, but I do eventually find it.

I tend to use products that check the most boxes. My top checkboxes are quality, durability, usefulness - how many different jobs can this single item do? We cannot even guess at all the ideas that you may have in store for the 3 options above, but if you are saying the 1.25/32mm will check the most boxes...

That's solid advice...and I've probably already overthought the entire thing. As far as additional projects go: maybe a ladder for easy access, and I've thought about bending a not-cage for the inside, just to practice. I could maybe do some light tube work on the exterior (winch area) but that's possibly getting a little too Jeepy for me.

I would go with a 1.25" to start with. Not too big for a roof rack support cage and big enough for other structural projects where 1" would not quite cut it. My tubing bender came with 1", 1.125", and 1.25" round dies; I have used the 1" a fair bit, the 1.25" the most, and have never used the 1.125".

That's valuable input: thank you. I didn't see a lot of use for 1.125" aside from that size being comfortable to grip...but if I'm only using it for ladder rungs or the like, then I don't need a die for it.

Also, what bender do you have? I haven't ordered one yet, so I'm still in the process of overthinking that aspect of things, as well. I did jump the gun somewhat, however, and bought a pack of cable ties while they were on sale for $100.

Pictured: And they came with a free air/hydro ram! Bonus! Party on!

 

[AirheadNut]

I have a JD2 Model 4 with an air over hydraulic ram. I bought it used for $800 with a 1” square die in addition to the dies listed above.

 

[Rigster]

I have a JD2 Model 4 with an air over hydraulic ram. I bought it used for $800 with a 1” square die in addition to the dies listed above.

The only thing I don't understand, is why you don't live closer to me...

 

[AirheadNut]

The only thing I don't understand, is why you don't live closer to me...

I wish I lived closer to it too! Unfortunately I live about 300 miles from most of my tools right now, makes getting any kind of fabrication project done a long process with lots of time on the road.

 

[Sundowner]

I wish I lived closer to it too! Unfortunately I live about 300 miles from most of my tools right now, makes getting any kind of fabrication project done a long process with lots of time on the road.

Most of mine are still 3000 miles away from me, so I know the feeling. And I tried to fix part of that, today, in a very literal sense: I was all set to pick out a fixture table/topper and pull the trigger...so I reached out to the leading contender on my short list - Fireball Tool - to see if it was possible for me to just come pick up a table rather than having it shipped. I figured that would save some cash; I mean, they're in Spokane, so that's only a few hours away...and I can get there and back for less than the charge of the freight. Simple plan...which is probably why that's where everything derailed.

Fireball responded pretty quickly, to their credit...but they don't offer pickup in Spokane. Everything ships from Southern California, so that's totally out of the question. But, they did me a solid: they offered free shipping on a fixture table...if I ordered one today.

I don't like time-conditional promotions because I feel like it's a high-pressure sales tactic, but free shipping means a good savings on a heavy object. Problem is, I'm not in my shop/garage today to get final measurements of where I think everything is going to go...so I'm having to go off of memory, because I don't want to lose the free shipping offer. So, at length, I decided to just back off of getting an entire monolithic table and instead get the modular table they offer; it'll do most of what I need, it's nice and heavy and flat, and if I need to move it around it disassembles easily. So I checked back with the customer service rep to see about getting it, and they almost instantly confirmed that free shipping would apply to that model as well.

Then they emailed a second time, five minutes later, and rescinded that offer.



I decided to check and see what shipping would cost on the table topper; I figured it wouldn't be as bad as the $150 freight charge on a table of equivalent area and greater height...so I was surprised to see a $350+ shipping charge on the modular table topper. But, I guess that explained why they suddenly took back what they told me at first; the rep didn't understand that the shipping charges on the smaller item were much higher.

So I went to Plan B: they currently have a blemished 24x36 table on clearance...so - now somewhat skeptical - I emailed back and asked if free shipping offer would apply to blemished tops. I had already checked to see how much the shipping would be, and it was only $59...but I wanted to see what the rep would tell me. Response: "No, the offer only applies to tables." So I sent her the link to that table - which can be ordered with legs and accessories and all types of ill s*** just like any other table they have, and guess what? Free shipping offer still doesn't apply to that one.

I honestly appreciate them making the initial offer, but then reneging and telling me terms and conditions afterwards - twice - left a very bad taste in my mouth. I could still get the blemished one, since it's discounted and only $50-ish to my door...but at this point I'd kind of rather support a company that backs up their offers instead of rescinding them. That just wasn't cool.

Okay, Karen-mode disengaged. Sorry for the rant, but today frustrated me; I really wanted to support a US-based company that builds their products here, but I feel like they didn't want to help me do that unless it was on some very specific terms that I never asked for in the first place.

Time for a cold beer; feel free to fire away if I'm being unreasonable.

Edit/Quick Update: I got an automated survey email from Fireball asking about my satisfaction level in regards to my customer service. I was honest...so, hopefully someone will actually read it.

Now... I need to find another fixture option; I have two stands and about four mobile tool bases to build before I can get started on this rack project.

 

[Broski]

I will go with the obvious recommendation since you basically answered your question yourself....
"but 1.25"/32mm would be very useful...so that's my leading contender"
but if you are saying the 1.25/32mm will check the most boxes...

It may be a** backwards Using inches instead of millimeters.
but just try going to the local steel yard and asked for 1.25”/32mm
All tubing here is in inches and wall thickness is in hundreds
Most likely the tubing bender will be in inches just like mine.

It’s even worse when you mix inches with millimeters just saying. 1.25”/32mm is lame.
JMHO

 

[Broski]

I’m thinking the the rubber seal is missing or flattened out under your fiberglass top and above your body, making the clearance between the top of your doors and the bottom of the fiberglass roof smaller.

I still like the idea of coming out between the fiberglass top and the body with some flat metal, utilizing the bolt holes that hold the fiberglass roof on to mount your rack.

 

[Sundowner]

All tubing here is in inches and wall thickness is in hundreds

Slight correction: most tube in the US will be in SAE/Imperial sizes, but there's a lot of metric stuff as well... it's just that most people won't be using it for this kind of thing. That being said:

It’s even worse when you mix inches with millimeters just saying. 1.25”/32mm is lame.
JMHO

I often quote both Imperial and metric in my writing so that anyone reading this that's not in the US doesn't have to convert our measurements to their own. It's just a courtesy.

Also, I haven't dismissed the idea of pitching the rack support from the tub rails; I just don't have a good way for that to support the front of the rack, and that's my current problem to solve. My rear solution may also prove untenable...and if that's the case, I'll probably go to a rail-mount per your suggestion. It's a good idea.

 

[Broski]

I’m thinking it could be cantilevered over the front doors similar to a pick up truck Lumber rack.
Basic cantilever concepts are 1/3 cantilever, 2/3 supported
If you weren’t so far away, I would bend up the tubing on my tubing bender for you.

 

[Sundowner]

I’m thinking it could be cantilevered over the front doors similar to a pick up truck Lumber rack.

That was my understanding, as well. There's only one slight problem...

Basic cantilever concepts are 1/3 cantilever, 2/3 supported

Definitely a lot more cantilever than is allowed, architecturally... at least without a lot of expensive work. Been there too many times.

If you weren’t so far away, I would bend up the tubing on my tubing bender for you.

Much appreciated! Also, maybe you can help with the aforementioned slight problem since you've put more of the little grey cells to this method than I have. We discussed the tub/top gap awhile back, and I do recall your suggestion for using thinner gasketing in order to offset the existing gasket thickness. The slight problem is that I can't actually find very much gasket thickness to begin with:

Pictured: I'm sure it's here...somewhere.

That little gap is somewhere around 1/16"... or 1.6mm for those of us that - wait for it - don't measure in Anglo-Yankee Capitalist Units. Granted, that's the view from the inside...but regardless, I'm not sure how to insert a piece of structural steel here without pushing the top upwards and creating a gap between it and literally everything else. I actually thought there was more room here, but... there isn't. This little widget, however, seems to be made from 3mm plate.

Pictured: That's 1.6199e-6 nautical miles, by the way.

I don't know how well I can sneak things in and around here for a bolt-on solution, but this is a relatively structural part on most vehicles; if I can't bolt to it - and I can't - I might be able to sandwich a plate under it, over it, or possibly weld to it.

Anyone know how to remove that plastic cover without breaking it? I need to get a look at this thing.