Stay classy my friend !!
OME BP-51 OWNERS...... ROLL CALL......... (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter dukmon
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Stay classy my friend !!
Markuson
SILVER Star
Funny you say that... I'm about to tighten compression up front on mine a bit with a similar goal.
Slee set my fronts to:
C: 4
R: 8
I just bumped C to 6
I'll have to get back to you on the rears in a bit as I left them alone
This is with preload at 20mm.
You and I run VERY different rigs though...so YMMV.
I'll have to get back to you on rears as I left them alone...
MScruiser
obsessive-compulsive oppositional-defiant wise-ass
That's because the tallest blade of grass is usually the first to be cut by the mower.
The last guy who tried that around here got his peepee slapped by the mods and got his account terminated.
Let's all play nice.
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Longtime lurker, and stock '15 landcruiser owner with 285/65R18 GY ATA Kevlar.
I was scheduled with Slee to have the nitro chargers put on about a month ago after experiencing rapid compression and decompression with stock suspension; almost flipped coming out of Canyonlands. The day before I am to drop it off, Ben calls to let me know the BP-51 had come in and to ask if I want them. So I ask him back, "I don't know, do I want them?" He pauses, "you want them." Quite the salesman.
I picked it up with BP-51s the next day and drove it back to out to our ranch in southern Colorado; 240mile highway, 20 mile washboard driveway ending at the base of four 14ers at 9,000' with endless private single and double track.
WHAAAAAAT! These made a significant improvement over stock. Something magical happens at precisely 32MPH. The washboard and obstacles up to about 8" just melt away. More predictable at all speeds. I can now go REALLY fast up my driveway. In the city, the vehicle is entirely better handling, more predictable and mannered.
Since then the BP-51s have taken me safely, smoothly and at high speeds to Kenosha, Georgia, Cuchara, Huerfano river valley, Independance/Marble/Snowmass/Aspen, Jackson/Holy Cross, Creede, Cache la Poudre and Monarch. Not sure, but I think I caught air, twice.
I have not noticed this knock that has been described by others. Seems to me it would make sense for the shock, by design, to have scenarios where a small hydraulic hammer could occur.....engineers make sacrifices all them time, I know, I married one...anyhow, I haven't experienced the knock.
Ben was right, "you want them." Thanks Christo and Ben.
I was scheduled with Slee to have the nitro chargers put on about a month ago after experiencing rapid compression and decompression with stock suspension; almost flipped coming out of Canyonlands. The day before I am to drop it off, Ben calls to let me know the BP-51 had come in and to ask if I want them. So I ask him back, "I don't know, do I want them?" He pauses, "you want them." Quite the salesman.
I picked it up with BP-51s the next day and drove it back to out to our ranch in southern Colorado; 240mile highway, 20 mile washboard driveway ending at the base of four 14ers at 9,000' with endless private single and double track.
WHAAAAAAT! These made a significant improvement over stock. Something magical happens at precisely 32MPH. The washboard and obstacles up to about 8" just melt away. More predictable at all speeds. I can now go REALLY fast up my driveway. In the city, the vehicle is entirely better handling, more predictable and mannered.
Since then the BP-51s have taken me safely, smoothly and at high speeds to Kenosha, Georgia, Cuchara, Huerfano river valley, Independance/Marble/Snowmass/Aspen, Jackson/Holy Cross, Creede, Cache la Poudre and Monarch. Not sure, but I think I caught air, twice.
I have not noticed this knock that has been described by others. Seems to me it would make sense for the shock, by design, to have scenarios where a small hydraulic hammer could occur.....engineers make sacrifices all them time, I know, I married one...anyhow, I haven't experienced the knock.
Ben was right, "you want them." Thanks Christo and Ben.
Markuson
SILVER Star
I've said it in the past, and it's true: Seems the faster and harder you push the BP-51’s, the better they get.
By the way... If you installed a month ago, you got the latest revision, which addressed the issues you've heard about.
BP-51's are back on my "highly recommended" list for sure.
DomSmith
SILVER Star
I know I'm new to the 200 forum but am I the only one that thinks these are imposter posts? His other posts don't resemble these at all. And with a new trailer and wrap, etc he's certainly not averse to spending a few bucks....
DomSmith
SILVER Star
Ok then... I stand corrected
You know that was what I was thinking, maybe his account was hacked. Not really sure why someone would bother...
I keep seeing you say these are fixed, but you've already said you don't know that, right? Yours had problem in cold weather, right? I'm just concerned with the continuing pushing of a product with recent issues until people test them in cold weather. The concern is more on the side of why would people recommend a product to others asking for advice when they aren't 100% sure a recent serious issue has been fixed. Or maybe you have done more testing?
Markuson
SILVER Star
Nothing is ever 100% I suppose. But after four noisy sets, arich finally had a silent set with the last revision that didn't clunk for the first time (where former sets were weird even without extreme cold)...and the oil leak issues are gone on mine. Mine are running better and quieter than ever. Add to this the fact that this was never a performance or safety issue, and I am satisfied.
They are still bypass shocks, so there may be some detectable noises at some point.. It is certainly possible to run into something new still...but my recommendation threshold has been reached. Take that within the context of...my opinion. I have no super powers beyond that.
@Markuson , in your opinion, why would a bypass shock have "detectable noises at some point"?
The bypass is just an oil pathway around (i.e., bypassing) the piston in the shock's center-of-travel or mid-stroke range of motion. I still don't see why anyone thinks they "should" make noise. Definitely not a loud enough noise that you could hear or feel it inside the vehicle. A bypass shock otherwise operates no differently than any other shock. The regular valves in these things don't really make noise. Oil-canning on the stacked disks of the piston maybe, but that's not gonna be heard or felt inside the vehicle. The racing shocks with the external bypass pipes and adjustable spring-loaded orifice valves could possibly make a little tapping as they operate - but I can't see how that would be the loud tapping hammering clunking noise that everyone is talking about.
Until the ARB guys say "it's the reed valve" or something of that nature about the clunking in the BP-51s, I'm inclined to think it has nothing to do with the fact that these are "bypass" shocks - instead it's likely just because it's a fairly new product with maybe some manufacturing issue. The only way a reed valve can make noise itself (unless it vibrates like on a wind instrument - ) is if something hangs on the edge of it, and I would think that would destroy it. I seriously doubt ARB put the valve anywhere that could happen. If it is sticking closed for some reason, then it could cause hydraulic lock or hammer, which would make a hard "clunk" under motion. So is that it?
It would be real nice if the ARB guys would say something more about this, especially of they want people to keep buying them. I really like everything I've read about them, but I have to be confident this thing has been cleared up before I go that route. And I have time, so no worries here, but it would be nice to know for sure.
The bypass is just an oil pathway around (i.e., bypassing) the piston in the shock's center-of-travel or mid-stroke range of motion. I still don't see why anyone thinks they "should" make noise. Definitely not a loud enough noise that you could hear or feel it inside the vehicle. A bypass shock otherwise operates no differently than any other shock. The regular valves in these things don't really make noise. Oil-canning on the stacked disks of the piston maybe, but that's not gonna be heard or felt inside the vehicle. The racing shocks with the external bypass pipes and adjustable spring-loaded orifice valves could possibly make a little tapping as they operate - but I can't see how that would be the loud tapping hammering clunking noise that everyone is talking about.
Until the ARB guys say "it's the reed valve" or something of that nature about the clunking in the BP-51s, I'm inclined to think it has nothing to do with the fact that these are "bypass" shocks - instead it's likely just because it's a fairly new product with maybe some manufacturing issue. The only way a reed valve can make noise itself (unless it vibrates like on a wind instrument -
) is if something hangs on the edge of it, and I would think that would destroy it. I seriously doubt ARB put the valve anywhere that could happen. If it is sticking closed for some reason, then it could cause hydraulic lock or hammer, which would make a hard "clunk" under motion. So is that it?It would be real nice if the ARB guys would say something more about this, especially of they want people to keep buying them. I really like everything I've read about them, but I have to be confident this thing has been cleared up before I go that route. And I have time, so no worries here, but it would be nice to know for sure.
Markuson
SILVER Star
@Markuson , in your opinion, why would a bypass shock have "detectable noises at some point"?
The bypass is just an oil pathway around (i.e., bypassing) the piston in the shock's center-of-travel or mid-stroke range of motion. I still don't see why anyone thinks they "should" make noise. Definitely not a loud enough noise that you could hear or feel it inside the vehicle. A bypass shock otherwise operates no differently than any other shock. The regular valves in these things don't really make noise. Oil-canning on the stacked disks of the piston maybe, but that's not gonna be heard or felt inside the vehicle. The racing shocks with the external bypass pipes and adjustable spring-loaded orifice valves could possibly make a little tapping as they operate - but I can't see how that would be the loud tapping hammering clunking noise that everyone is talking about.
Until the ARB guys say "it's the reed valve" or something of that nature about the clunking in the BP-51s, I'm inclined to think it has nothing to do with the fact that these are "bypass" shocks - instead it's likely just because it's a fairly new product with maybe some manufacturing issue. The only way a reed valve can make noise itself (unless it vibrates like on a wind instrument -
It would be real nice if the ARB guys would say something more about this, especially of they want people to keep buying them. I really like everything I've read about them, but I have to be confident this thing has been cleared up before I go that route. And I have time, so no worries here, but it would be nice to know for sure.
It was not my intention to imply that the "clunk" was simply because it's a bypass shock. That was an aside. I am no shock guru either.
ARB has not released a detailed description of exactly what they did, and I suspect they won't. I do know they changed the seals to address higher-than-typical oil loss, but they have not described much beyond that...and that's a separate issue anyway. Of course they also changed the rear rock guards...also unrelated. But ya...I'd also love to know the details.
As for bypass shocks often being noisier in general... Do a quick google search for noise complaints with bypass shocks. They are everywhere...also with Fox, King, too...but again, I did not intend to equate that with the BP clunk. Have a look at even just the first two search result pages here: why are bypass shocks so noisy - Google Search Kind of entertaining.
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It was not my intention to imply that the "clunk" was simply because it's a bypass shock. That was an aside. I am no shock guru either.
ARB has not released a detailed description of exactly what they did, and I suspect they won't. I do know they changed the seals to address higher-than-typical oil loss, but they have not described much beyond that...and that's a separate issue anyway. Of course they also changed the rear rock guards...also unrelated. But ya...I'd also love to know the details.
As for bypass shocks often being noisier in general... Do a quick google search for noise complaints with bypass shocks. They are everywhere...also with Fox, King, too...but again, I did not intend to equate that with the BP clunk. Have a look at even just the first two search result pages here: why are bypass shocks so noisy - Google Search Kind of entertaining.
@Markuson - thanks for the clarification. Yep, I've looked at a lot of that stuff too since joining this forum and first hearing of the clunk. I haven't been playing in this area for many years, so I was a little in the dark about all the new stuff out there these days - like those race shocks. I don't see myself ever needing to go racing in my LC, and I'm really not interested in hard-core rock crawling, so I may never experience that type of regular noise.
But, I have always attributed 99% of this hard clunking/knocking/whacking/hammer-tapping/thunking stuff to sloppy shade-tree DIY installation by people who don't know where the pitfalls are. I'm sure real chassis-transmitted clunks are almost always something that is not 100% snug, tight-fitting and with no potential gaps.
The valve-clicking noise from those external-tube bypass race shocks is what I was mentioning before - that clicking and tapping is a whole lot different from a chassis clunk that comes through the floorboards. I have been assuming that the clunk people are hearing on the BP-51s is of the chassis clunk type, not the bypass race shock valve-tapping type. So maybe I have misunderstood - wouldn't be the first time.
It's just that the BP-51s aren't that type of external-valve bypass shocks, the bypass is internal to the shock body, so the operation should be undetectable. That's why I don't think it's the same thing going on, and would really like to know more.
Markuson
SILVER Star
Believe it or not, I'm a skeptic of many of the complaints too. I do think that many reports of noises may well have nothing to do with the BPs. There are all manner of noises that can be made elsewhere as you know. Ball joints on UCA's, squeaks from rear rubber attachment points, springs hitting all sorts of points in front, loose bolts, and also tons of motion-triggered noises that have nothing to do with suspension.
I do know they were working on significant changes over the course of each revision...to the point of them actually asking me NOT to install one version they had just sent...because yet another, ewer revision had just been completed and they wanted to make sure the second revision wasn't installed when a third was pending.
By the way... My rears were very leaky compared to these...and I know they did change the seals. I'm also noting that adjustment is far easier. Wondering if the excess oil was simply attracting more crud that was creating resistance in the adjustment rings... Who knows, but these are clearly easier to turn.
Anyway... Like you...I have no doubt that many reports of noises may well have been unrelated. Mine was definitely cold-only...but Arich had it even well above freezing, and it disappeared with the latest revision. Time will be the final judge, but man, these things really do perform.
...
Mine never really leaked so that wasn't my complaint. After installing/changing shocks 6-8 times I feel confident it wasn't my install mistake.
The knock was most likely a hammer/knock as discussed above. I had report this suspicion to ARB almost 2 years ago know which was how I came to be a tester for them. The engineers couldn't tell me exactly what they did for fear it would eventually leak to other manufacturers. Even though they had told me changes were made each time I suspect they were the exact same shock, that is until I got the most recent set which are awesome.
I con also confidently say that I believe the problem has been fixed.
ARB has been doing testing in the cold weather. It's winter in Australia right now and it's damn cold at night.
The knock was most likely a hammer/knock as discussed above. I had report this suspicion to ARB almost 2 years ago know which was how I came to be a tester for them. The engineers couldn't tell me exactly what they did for fear it would eventually leak to other manufacturers. Even though they had told me changes were made each time I suspect they were the exact same shock, that is until I got the most recent set which are awesome.
I con also confidently say that I believe the problem has been fixed.
ARB has been doing testing in the cold weather. It's winter in Australia right now and it's damn cold at night.
No installation errors here either. The clunk is/was real.
But ARB would be foolish to give details. Why? They put a lot of money into R&D to make these, so why would they help the competition by divulging their secrets? I don't blame them for keeping silent.
Glad to hear that they are working on the seal issue (I had one that leaked). Look forward to hearing how the new shocks do. Longevity and reliability is important.
As someone who didn't have the patience to wait for the fix and switched to a lesser shock (OME Nitrocharger), I can attest that the BP-51s are absolutely amazing: the harder you push them, the better they feel. I know others have already said as much, but remember that this statement comes from someone who has been very critical for a long time of the BP-51s (I was complaining even before Arich). If you are in the market for an upgrade, you might want to wait a bit to see how everything settles out and, if members continue to report no problems with new BPs, then get them! That is what I am going to do.
But ARB would be foolish to give details. Why? They put a lot of money into R&D to make these, so why would they help the competition by divulging their secrets? I don't blame them for keeping silent.
Glad to hear that they are working on the seal issue (I had one that leaked). Look forward to hearing how the new shocks do. Longevity and reliability is important.
As someone who didn't have the patience to wait for the fix and switched to a lesser shock (OME Nitrocharger), I can attest that the BP-51s are absolutely amazing: the harder you push them, the better they feel. I know others have already said as much, but remember that this statement comes from someone who has been very critical for a long time of the BP-51s (I was complaining even before Arich). If you are in the market for an upgrade, you might want to wait a bit to see how everything settles out and, if members continue to report no problems with new BPs, then get them! That is what I am going to do.
LOL- my complaints fell on deaf ears for months at the ARB supplier I purchased from. They really had me second guessing my install abilities. It wasn't until I heard chatter on the Australian forums that I started going over the suppliers head trying to contact ARB. I have yet to hear a supplier comment about clunking.
I know that is an old tread and I am sorry to open to wound but the winter will be here soon and I will be back in pain.
Any of you got the new shocks , beside ARICH ??.
Thank you.
Any of you got the new shocks , beside ARICH ??.
Thank you.
