No spark in 1974 FJ40

[Tony Karate]

I just started this project for my grandparents. I’ve only done mechanical work on my 99 Tacoma so a lot of this stuff is new to me. They’ve been using the land cruiser as a shelf for the last 30 years and we got it somewhat clear of junk last weekend. So far I put a battery in it, it turned on most of the lights but it didn’t crank. After almost having a heart attack jumping the starter with a screwdriver we got it to crank. Now it will reliably crank but there is no spark. After doing some research on the ignition system I noticed 1974 seems to be the odd one out when it comes to the distributor. There isn’t a condenser inside the distributor. I’ve seen pictures of an external one on the outside of the distributor like this diagram from my Haynes manual

There’s also this picture of it coming from the coil I found online from an unknown vehicle.

In my land cruiser there is a capacitor with a broken wire that was attached to the coil.

I don’t see any other kind of capacitor anywhere around the coil or distributor. It doesn’t look like anything I see in the manual or online. I’m pretty sure the coil has been moved from on the block above the distributor to on top of the wheel well and I’m not sure why. Hopefully there’s some people on here who can help me answer some of these questions.

Is this an external condenser?
Could this be what’s not allowing it to spark?
Is this what it looked like stock or was it replaced with this capacitor?
Can I use any fj40 condenser or 100uf 25v capacitor to replace it?

 

[Pighead]

You probably have the Late F engine. Almost a 2F but still sorta F. And i believe the coil did move to the fenderwell in '74. Look at your points, if you still have points, make sure they are clean and move as the engine rotates.

 

[mrboatman]

If you are just jumping it at the starter you won`t have spark until you put 12v power to the + side of the coil

 

[73FJ40]

Good luck moving forward on this effort.

Basics:

The coil is where it was intended to be for your model year.
-There are 30 years of corrosion on your wires, terminals, and points. Clean them up to have a fighting chance.
-The capacitor with the broken wire next to the coil is a hack. Condensers on the positive coil terminal are for radio noise supression.
-Written on the coil are the words, "xxx xxxx external resistor" Do xxx xxxx read, "use with"? If so, I don't see it in the customary position, attached to the coil. The standard one is a ceramic block. IF the coil needs an external resistor, and there isn't one wired into the circuit leading to the positive coil terminal, it's possible the coil is burned out.

As noted by @mrboatman above, if you want to fast track attempted starting, hook up a jumper from the positive battery terminal to the positive coil terminal, then jump the starter as you've discovered how to do. If no spark, change the points and add a condenser to the terminal on the side of the distributor.

Post pictures for future guidance, particularly of the distributor, inside and out.

 

[Tony Karate]

Thank you all for the suggestions. I did manage to get a spark after cleaning up the inside of the shaft where the rotor hooks up. I circled it in red. It was all filled with black gunk.

I’m still wondering where the condenser is exactly if that capacitor isn’t it. The Haynes manual said it is vital for the ignition system to function but I don’t see it anywhere.

Next step is tackling the fuel tank and carburetor somebody started to replace but never finished. Oh boy…

 

[igotta40]

I have a 1974 also. That coil is in the correct location. A common reason for no spark is a broken wire that goes from the (-) on the coil to the side of the distributor. When it happened to me the wire looked fine but the copper wire inside the insulation was broken. Try a new piece of wire.

 

[igotta40]

There’s your condenser

 

[Tony Karate]

There’s your condenser

View attachment 2924317

That’s it! Thank you. It’s stuck all the way in the back. I had to reach my camera around to see it.

 

[igotta40]

That thin black hose on the distributor is a good place to find vacuum leaks . It gets brittle and develops cracks.

 

[WILLD420]

That grease inside the shaft is supposed to be a felt with oil on it in most points distributors. That's how the insides of the distributor down under the point plate get lubricated. Your style might just be packed with grease to do the same job. That condenser and points is trash. The points are all burnt up and black. The corrosion on the stud and the condition of the wiring is also in need of cleanup.

Points are simple, but it is getting really hard to find good components. Most of the condensers I've gotten in the last 10 years have been junk. A condenser is nothing more than a storage unit for the excess energy created when the points open. It absorbs that spark you see when the points open. Without it, they will burn up quick and it will either run like crap or screw up the spark to the point it won't run. That capacitor on the coil is probably a sign that the condenser on the distributor is bad or was failing. Convert it over to a drop-in electronic like a Pertronix II and forget those points. They may have their issues but the conversion is much better than points unless it's surviving an EMP attack.

Get a new coil too. Rockauto has decent ones, just do your research and make sure you get the right OHM resistance value. Takes some legwork but it can be done. Old coils dry up inside and they overheat the windings because the oil fails to cover the inner windings completely. The windings also age and quit working. Wires die too. The graphite inner core breaks down with age. Be careful running straight 12V to the coil. If it's a resistor type, you will burn them up quick with 12V they are meant to run on 4-7 volts through a ceramic insulated resistor on the firewall, which is what those coils of shiny wire are under the ignition coil. Beware old ignition switches that have sat around and fuses. They get corrosion inside and heat builds up. Heat, wiring, lots of old junk, a crowded garage and some electricity flowing through old connections is a good way to burn one to the ground and the house with it.

If it truly has been 30 years since that motor ran, there are some things you need to do to prevent ruining it before firing it up. All the lubrication on the valve guides will have dried up or turned to something resembling roofing tar. If you don't get some lubricant in there, you can stick a valve and hole a piston or worse. Needs to be good penetrating type oil, WD-40 isn't going to cut it. You can do it by pulling the valve cover and squirting automatic transmission fluid or a good light-weight motor oil on everything that moves, like the rocker arm pivots, ends of the pushrods and up inside the valve springs. If you can get it under the valve stem seals, that's the best way but sometimes you just have to take your chances.

The rings in the cylinders are probably going to be gummed up too. If your lucky, you won't have rusty cylinders but you've got to make sure. Pull the plugs and check. Make sure they didn't get condensation in there, or mice. Little suckers love old engines. Look under the valve cover too, they can fit anywhere you can get a pencil-width noodle. Marvel mystery oil is the best thing I've used on one that has sat for a long time. The solvents in it work better than anything short of SeaFoam. Change the old motor oil after you soak a few shots out of a squirt can into those cylinders and things loosen up. That old oil will likely have settled into some serious sludge in the bottom of the oil pan.

Some guys use Diesel in the cylinders instead of Marvel, you can use WD-40 in the cylinders as well, if you want. That's the one place that stuff works pretty good, since it's really similar to a mix of kerosene and water dispersants.

 

[igotta40]

WILLD420 gave some good advice, I will add that I get points cap, rotor, condenser, etc. at the parts counter at the local Toyota dealer. OEM.

 

[73FJ40]

@Tony Karate

What was the outcome of the following suggestion?

"-Written on the coil are the words, "xxx xxxx external resistor" Do xxx xxxx read, "use with"? If so, I don't see it in the customary position, attached to the coil. The standard one is a ceramic block. IF the coil needs an external resistor, and there isn't one wired into the circuit leading to the positive coil terminal, it's possible the coil is burned out."

 

[Chungas Revenge]

That grease inside the shaft is supposed to be a felt with oil on it in most points distributors. That's how the insides of the distributor down under the point plate get lubricated. Your style might just be packed with grease to do the same job. That condenser and points is trash. The points are all burnt up and black. The corrosion on the stud and the condition of the wiring is also in need of cleanup.

Points are simple, but it is getting really hard to find good components. Most of the condensers I've gotten in the last 10 years have been junk. A condenser is nothing more than a storage unit for the excess energy created when the points open. It absorbs that spark you see when the points open. Without it, they will burn up quick and it will either run like crap or screw up the spark to the point it won't run. That capacitor on the coil is probably a sign that the condenser on the distributor is bad or was failing. Convert it over to a drop-in electronic like a Pertronix II and forget those points. They may have their issues but the conversion is much better than points unless it's surviving an EMP attack.

Get a new coil too. Rockauto has decent ones, just do your research and make sure you get the right OHM resistance value. Takes some legwork but it can be done. Old coils dry up inside and they overheat the windings because the oil fails to cover the inner windings completely. The windings also age and quit working. Wires die too. The graphite inner core breaks down with age. Be careful running straight 12V to the coil. If it's a resistor type, you will burn them up quick with 12V they are meant to run on 4-7 volts through a ceramic insulated resistor on the firewall, which is what those coils of shiny wire are under the ignition coil. Beware old ignition switches that have sat around and fuses. They get corrosion inside and heat builds up. Heat, wiring, lots of old junk, a crowded garage and some electricity flowing through old connections is a good way to burn one to the ground and the house with it.

If it truly has been 30 years since that motor ran, there are some things you need to do to prevent ruining it before firing it up. All the lubrication on the valve guides will have dried up or turned to something resembling roofing tar. If you don't get some lubricant in there, you can stick a valve and hole a piston or worse. Needs to be good penetrating type oil, WD-40 isn't going to cut it. You can do it by pulling the valve cover and squirting automatic transmission fluid or a good light-weight motor oil on everything that moves, like the rocker arm pivots, ends of the pushrods and up inside the valve springs. If you can get it under the valve stem seals, that's the best way but sometimes you just have to take your chances.

The rings in the cylinders are probably going to be gummed up too. If your lucky, you won't have rusty cylinders but you've got to make sure. Pull the plugs and check. Make sure they didn't get condensation in there, or mice. Little suckers love old engines. Look under the valve cover too, they can fit anywhere you can get a pencil-width noodle. Marvel mystery oil is the best thing I've used on one that has sat for a long time. The solvents in it work better than anything short of SeaFoam. Change the old motor oil after you soak a few shots out of a squirt can into those cylinders and things loosen up. That old oil will likely have settled into some serious sludge in the bottom of the oil pan.

Some guys use Diesel in the cylinders instead of Marvel, you can use WD-40 in the cylinders as well, if you want. That's the one place that stuff works pretty good, since it's really similar to a mix of kerosene and water dispersants.

@Tony Karate the “Yota” is strong in this one ^^^

Sound words, sage advice.
Pulling for you.

 

[fcgadget]

sounds ridiculous, but I just went through this and found that the battery was just a little too low

 

[Tony Karate]

@Tony Karate

What was the outcome of the following suggestion?

"-Written on the coil are the words, "xxx xxxx external resistor" Do xxx xxxx read, "use with"? If so, I don't see it in the customary position, attached to the coil. The standard one is a ceramic block. IF the coil needs an external resistor, and there isn't one wired into the circuit leading to the positive coil terminal, it's possible the coil is burned out."

I’m going to convert the distributor to electric like he said so I’ll get a new coil for it anyway.

This is the external resistor it’s talking about right? Not that capacitor.

 

[bhsdriller]

Have you tested the coil?

Testing the ignition coil

I have seen few posts lately with ignition trouble both here and on ccot discussion board, so I am posting this very common test for the ignition coil. Regardless of what ignition system you have or what coil you have you can use this test . You can use your truck battery to do this test or any...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[Tony Karate]

The current state of the project

I took the radiator out and everything looks good in there. Nice bright green coolant no oil or rust. I got the very frustrating valve cover off and it was bone dry. There was no sludge just a bit of a film over everything. I covered all the all the rockers in marvel mystery oil and squirted some in the cylinders through the spark plug holes. Then I stuck the worlds biggest socket wrench on the crank bolt and everything moves properly. Nothing stuck or too loose.

I’ll replace the water pump, alternator, and belt while they’re easy to get to. Is there anything else I should consider doing inside the engine bay before I put it all back together and get it running?

 

[Tony Karate]

Have you tested the coil?

Testing the ignition coil

I have seen few posts lately with ignition trouble both here and on ccot discussion board, so I am posting this very common test for the ignition coil. Regardless of what ignition system you have or what coil you have you can use this test . You can use your truck battery to do this test or any...

forum.ih8mud.com

View attachment 2925922

I tested the resistances and they’re all good but I’m not getting anything on the external resistor if this is it below the coil. I think I’ll replace the coil regardless unless there’s any reason not to.

 

[Chungas Revenge]

I’ll kick you some low hanging fruit. If it sat for 30 years I will venture a guess and say if it’s made of rubber or cork it probably needs a close look and replaced. It’s a lot easier to get at your plumbing now.

 

[Tony Karate]

I found some snacks in the coolant overflow tank. I wondered why the coolant was brown and smelled terrible. I spilled it on myself and the garage floor before I dumped the coolant out and looked inside the tank… gonna take a shower and call it a night.