My '84 60 build, "Wallace"
- Thread starter ntsqd
- Start date
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mmmmm, progress.
Those are a couple of big steps!
ntsqd
technerd
- Thread starter
- #68
I had this all typed out, and then the pooter burped......
Throttle cable. It's close, but not quite done yet due to needing to pull the engine in order to drill one 8.5mm hole exactly 5.175" above the top of the center of the oval hole for the 60's original linkage. Which needs to happen in the next couple of days anyway. The trans guy is almost done, says that I should be able to pick it up tomorrow!!
I was hoping that they did, but the 60 and 62 pedals don't bolt to the firewall the same way. So to convert to a cable I gathered up a 62 pedal assembly and cable, and I had kept the pedal and cable from the Z-28 donor. The Z's cable was too specific to the Z firewall to be usable here, but it had the desired end for the square hole in the throttle body's cable bracket and a cool little thingy to keep grit out of the cable housing so it was removed from the rest of the Z car's housing. Both cables appear to be stainless steel, but the 62's cable measured 0.080" OD vs. the Z cable's 0.060" OD so I used the 62 cable. That was an easy choice, just had to drill out that anti-grit thingy a little.
There isn't enough meat in the desired Z cable hosing end to fit the 62's housing inside of it, but there is enough if the outer rubber-like sheath is stripped off. I figure to epoxy the metal core of the 62 housing into the Z housing end, and then put some adhesive lined heat-shrink across the join. The Z housing end has a rib on it that should locate the heat-shrink nicely.
The other end of the 62 cable housing has the threaded portion originally intended to go through the 62's throttle body bracket. I'm going to put it at the firewall.
The Z-car and the 62 use the same shape on the throttle body end of the cable, but the 62's is a larger OD. I didn't see that filing it down and keeping it round was going to work all that well. So I made a new barrel from high-zoot Copper alloy (because I had it) and drilled a ~0.085" cross hole in it. Slid the barrel on the cable and then melted the cable's end into a ball with a GTAW.
The pedal end of the cable will have the plastic locator piece and the rubber deally at the pedal. I'll have to make some sort of stopper to clamp on the cable behind the rubber part. Something like this:
I measured from the pivot to the center of the foot pad and from the pivot to the center of the cable hole on both pedals (Z-car & FJ62) and found something curious. The various lengths are different, but the ratio of those respective lengths is identical!
Since they mount differently and it was looking like a whole bunch of work to fit the 62 pedal to the 60 firewall I decided to cut off the parts that I needed form the 62 pedal and to cut off the parts that I didn't need on the 60 pedal, and then graft them together. This turned out to be a pretty simple job and resulted in a stronger pedal.
Once the hole is drilled and the engine is back in I'll be able to set the housing length, and then do the epoxy & heat-shrink part of the job. Then with that length set I can set up the cable length and be hopefully done with this sub-project.
Throttle cable. It's close, but not quite done yet due to needing to pull the engine in order to drill one 8.5mm hole exactly 5.175" above the top of the center of the oval hole for the 60's original linkage. Which needs to happen in the next couple of days anyway. The trans guy is almost done, says that I should be able to pick it up tomorrow!!
I was hoping that they did, but the 60 and 62 pedals don't bolt to the firewall the same way. So to convert to a cable I gathered up a 62 pedal assembly and cable, and I had kept the pedal and cable from the Z-28 donor. The Z's cable was too specific to the Z firewall to be usable here, but it had the desired end for the square hole in the throttle body's cable bracket and a cool little thingy to keep grit out of the cable housing so it was removed from the rest of the Z car's housing. Both cables appear to be stainless steel, but the 62's cable measured 0.080" OD vs. the Z cable's 0.060" OD so I used the 62 cable. That was an easy choice, just had to drill out that anti-grit thingy a little.
There isn't enough meat in the desired Z cable hosing end to fit the 62's housing inside of it, but there is enough if the outer rubber-like sheath is stripped off. I figure to epoxy the metal core of the 62 housing into the Z housing end, and then put some adhesive lined heat-shrink across the join. The Z housing end has a rib on it that should locate the heat-shrink nicely.
The other end of the 62 cable housing has the threaded portion originally intended to go through the 62's throttle body bracket. I'm going to put it at the firewall.
The Z-car and the 62 use the same shape on the throttle body end of the cable, but the 62's is a larger OD. I didn't see that filing it down and keeping it round was going to work all that well. So I made a new barrel from high-zoot Copper alloy (because I had it) and drilled a ~0.085" cross hole in it. Slid the barrel on the cable and then melted the cable's end into a ball with a GTAW.
The pedal end of the cable will have the plastic locator piece and the rubber deally at the pedal. I'll have to make some sort of stopper to clamp on the cable behind the rubber part. Something like this:
I measured from the pivot to the center of the foot pad and from the pivot to the center of the cable hole on both pedals (Z-car & FJ62) and found something curious. The various lengths are different, but the ratio of those respective lengths is identical!
Since they mount differently and it was looking like a whole bunch of work to fit the 62 pedal to the 60 firewall I decided to cut off the parts that I needed form the 62 pedal and to cut off the parts that I didn't need on the 60 pedal, and then graft them together. This turned out to be a pretty simple job and resulted in a stronger pedal.
Once the hole is drilled and the engine is back in I'll be able to set the housing length, and then do the epoxy & heat-shrink part of the job. Then with that length set I can set up the cable length and be hopefully done with this sub-project.
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Lotta work!
I used a Lokar gas pedal & cable & moved the brake pedal closer to the firewall to be in a compatible position to the gas pedal. Of course the clutch is gone. And the brake has a Lokar '55 Chevy pedal pad on it to complement the gas. Gave me about 4" more leg room.
Only downside is the gas pedal doesn't open up the throttle 100%: if I ever get energetic (#44 on my list) I'll get a new drum made for the throttle body, progressive so it's less sensitive at lower RPMs.
I used a Lokar gas pedal & cable & moved the brake pedal closer to the firewall to be in a compatible position to the gas pedal. Of course the clutch is gone. And the brake has a Lokar '55 Chevy pedal pad on it to complement the gas. Gave me about 4" more leg room.
Only downside is the gas pedal doesn't open up the throttle 100%: if I ever get energetic (#44 on my list) I'll get a new drum made for the throttle body, progressive so it's less sensitive at lower RPMs.
A couple of things I feel I want to mention that might be helpful... or they might not. first off, cable bits and pieces are easily found at motorcycle shops, especially those that deal with custom hogs. Checker also has a decent assortment of basic barrel-style clamps. About your intention to use a clocking ring; the bearing retainer on the front of the NP241 serves as a pilot in the back of the trans. The clocking ring renders it useless. They also tend to leak because that area where the pilot goes into the tailhousing is now open for fluids to get in there and work their way out onto the driveway. I solved that issue on my NV4500 to NP241 union by redrilling the tailhousing at the appropriate locations for the desired "clocking" of the T-case without the clocking ring. I used the clocking ring as a template by clamping it to the tailhousing and putting the whole thing on the drill press. The recessed areas in the rear of the tailhousing I filled with epoxy (prior to drilling) and ground it down flush. This has worked very well for me, the clocking ring never did. I also used an NP241 from an early 90s Dodge; they came from the factory with a fixed yoke output and a mechanical speedo gear driving a pulse generator that I easily converted to my original speedo cable after swapping the cable end at a cable shop. The Dodge pattern is not compatible with a Chevy tailhousing, (it is the same but 90 degrees off) but since I was drilling anyway, it didn't matter. For the T-case shifter, I bolted a steel plate to the trans cover just to the right of the opening for the original T-case shifter location. I welded on a stud of the appropriate diameter to allow the original shifter to pivot on it. I welded a fitting on the end of the shifter to allow it to fit on a typical NP-style threaded shift rod with the adjustment nuts allowing me to get it centered where I want it. So what I have is the stock lever in the stock location, it just moves straight back and forth.
ntsqd
technerd
- Thread starter
- #71
I do appreciate the input. Sometimes I get too anal or lost in the details, it does keep me in check. Witness below [
]:
I've used the Lokar throttle kits in the past and I wouldn't hesitate to use them again where appropriate. I went the direction that I did because I wanted a more low key, more OE appearance under the hood. If it confuses someone into thinking that somehow a TPI engine was a rare option then so much the better.
The SolidWorks generated pictured part will allow me some adjustability once it is made, and being up under the dash it won't show.
After looking at Dynosoar's truck I realized that not all TPI throttle bodies have cams. Some have levers like a carb. Mine has a cam, and it looks like it is slightly progressive, getting faster (shorter lever length) as the throttle is opened further. The shaft bores in mine need a rebuild. My local carb shop does that work on throttle bodies too, so I'll need to get it down to them soon.
I didn't like the loss of the piloting with the use of the clocking ring either. I modified the bearing retainer plate slightly (removed the ribs) and turned a new ring that lightly pressed onto the OD of the seal bore lip of the bearing retainer. Slightly longer bolts hold it and the bearing retainer in place. I used the 'Right Stuff' RTV to seal the clocking ring to the transfer case. Am thinking to use it again to seal the clocking ring to the OE trans adapter.
I did consider re-drilling the trans adapter to clock the t/c, but GM didn't leave any meat to do that with. There is a bulge in the OD of the flange where each bolt hole is. Drilling alternate holes would have resulted in wall thickness' that were too thin and being cast iron I couldn't weld to it either. Too bad, it was my preferred way to deal with the problem. Would've been simpler too.
Something that I haven't mentioned, I removed the pressed-in breather tube from the transfer case. I tapped the resulting hole to 1/8" NPT and it now has a -4 JIC adapter in place. The trans case got a similar mod before the trans guy got it, so once they are installed I'll be building some sort of breather assembly in the engine bay.
Last night a box from HAD showed up. Should have the t/c flanges and the front drive shaft with a longer slip in it. I didn't have time last night to open it. Won't tonight either.
Dang, when I sold off the stock trans and transfer case I let the stock t/c shifter go with it. Hum......
I have my dad and a local friend who is a JY scrounger looking for the shifter that GM used with this t/c and the 208. The idea being to cut and fit and weld on it to bolt into the OE t/c shifter hole. If I'm lucky the stock shifter boot will work. If one of those doesn't turn up I'll be looking for a stock shifter lever to see what I can do with that.
]: I've used the Lokar throttle kits in the past and I wouldn't hesitate to use them again where appropriate. I went the direction that I did because I wanted a more low key, more OE appearance under the hood. If it confuses someone into thinking that somehow a TPI engine was a rare option then so much the better.
The SolidWorks generated pictured part will allow me some adjustability once it is made, and being up under the dash it won't show.
After looking at Dynosoar's truck I realized that not all TPI throttle bodies have cams. Some have levers like a carb. Mine has a cam, and it looks like it is slightly progressive, getting faster (shorter lever length) as the throttle is opened further. The shaft bores in mine need a rebuild. My local carb shop does that work on throttle bodies too, so I'll need to get it down to them soon.
I didn't like the loss of the piloting with the use of the clocking ring either. I modified the bearing retainer plate slightly (removed the ribs) and turned a new ring that lightly pressed onto the OD of the seal bore lip of the bearing retainer. Slightly longer bolts hold it and the bearing retainer in place. I used the 'Right Stuff' RTV to seal the clocking ring to the transfer case. Am thinking to use it again to seal the clocking ring to the OE trans adapter.
I did consider re-drilling the trans adapter to clock the t/c, but GM didn't leave any meat to do that with. There is a bulge in the OD of the flange where each bolt hole is. Drilling alternate holes would have resulted in wall thickness' that were too thin and being cast iron I couldn't weld to it either. Too bad, it was my preferred way to deal with the problem. Would've been simpler too.
Something that I haven't mentioned, I removed the pressed-in breather tube from the transfer case. I tapped the resulting hole to 1/8" NPT and it now has a -4 JIC adapter in place. The trans case got a similar mod before the trans guy got it, so once they are installed I'll be building some sort of breather assembly in the engine bay.
Last night a box from HAD showed up. Should have the t/c flanges and the front drive shaft with a longer slip in it. I didn't have time last night to open it. Won't tonight either.
Dang, when I sold off the stock trans and transfer case I let the stock t/c shifter go with it. Hum......
I have my dad and a local friend who is a JY scrounger looking for the shifter that GM used with this t/c and the 208. The idea being to cut and fit and weld on it to bolt into the OE t/c shifter hole. If I'm lucky the stock shifter boot will work. If one of those doesn't turn up I'll be looking for a stock shifter lever to see what I can do with that.
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I pulled a GM shifter from a wrecking yard. When I got it home, I realized that it was so ugly I couldn't bring myself to even try to put it in. I threw it out. I hope you have better luck.
ntsqd
technerd
- Thread starter
- #73
I'm not particularly fond of the looks of the one in my '91 Suburban either. What I'm thinking might be possible is to just use the guts of it and fabricate the part that bolts to the floor in a way that the stock shifter boot fits over it. I like that forced offset between 4Hi and neutral. I've had to shift from 2hi to 4hi on the fly and that stop was nice for not hitting neutral. If one can't be found then I'll work out something like what you did. My order from McMaster for the rod ends for this linkage and the isolators for the fuel pump mount arrived today.
Minor update: The correct pump kit is locally back-ordered so I didn't get the trans tonight. I think (hope?) that I'll have it by this coming weekend. Just need to paint the trans to t/c adapter and add the drain to the trans pan, then it'll all be ready to go in.
Tonight I pulled the engine and bare trans case out and drilled the hole for the throttle cable housing. It *just* clears the OE heat shield, no mods to it needed! I need to make some 90* gusset plates for the RS mount at the frame and then I can paint the frame in the engine bay. I'm going to try a suggestion from a friend, he used Duplicolor aerosol bedliner on his EB's frame and has been happy with it. Says that it's just irregular enough of a surface to not show a lot of grime. That sounds like a plan to me!
Minor update: The correct pump kit is locally back-ordered so I didn't get the trans tonight. I think (hope?) that I'll have it by this coming weekend. Just need to paint the trans to t/c adapter and add the drain to the trans pan, then it'll all be ready to go in.
Tonight I pulled the engine and bare trans case out and drilled the hole for the throttle cable housing. It *just* clears the OE heat shield, no mods to it needed! I need to make some 90* gusset plates for the RS mount at the frame and then I can paint the frame in the engine bay. I'm going to try a suggestion from a friend, he used Duplicolor aerosol bedliner on his EB's frame and has been happy with it. Says that it's just irregular enough of a surface to not show a lot of grime. That sounds like a plan to me!
PabloCruise
SILVER Star
This is a great build!
The posts about the modified gas pedals has me interested b/c I have struggled with throttle pedal in my 3FE equipped FJ-55.
I used the 62 throttle pedal, but it sits so high off the 55 floor board that it is uncomfortable.
I also do not get 100% throttle opening with this set up, but I do get enough.
I think I will check out the Lokar options.
Can't wait to see more of this build!
The posts about the modified gas pedals has me interested b/c I have struggled with throttle pedal in my 3FE equipped FJ-55.
I used the 62 throttle pedal, but it sits so high off the 55 floor board that it is uncomfortable.
I also do not get 100% throttle opening with this set up, but I do get enough.
I think I will check out the Lokar options.
Can't wait to see more of this build!
ntsqd
technerd
- Thread starter
- #77
Fuel System Dilemma
My plan for the fuel system is to use a marine style, water separating spin-on fuel filter between the tank and an inline high pressure fuel pump. Mostly for the very large surface area 40-ish micron filtering and not so much for the water separating aspect. Downstream of the HP pump I will have one of the typical GM EFI 10 micron fuel filters. (The mount for it and the pump is at about the 45% point.)
The issue is that first filter and drawing fuel up out of the tank through it. I am concerned that the usual inline Walbro pump that I have won't be able to do that. The HP pump and "GM" filter will be mounted up fairly high right under the floor. I have a low pressure, high volume Carter electric pump that I could put right next to the fuel tank. I'd just really rather not have two pumps if I don't need to.
Experiences?
Thoughts?
Ideas?
My plan for the fuel system is to use a marine style, water separating spin-on fuel filter between the tank and an inline high pressure fuel pump. Mostly for the very large surface area 40-ish micron filtering and not so much for the water separating aspect. Downstream of the HP pump I will have one of the typical GM EFI 10 micron fuel filters. (The mount for it and the pump is at about the 45% point.)
The issue is that first filter and drawing fuel up out of the tank through it. I am concerned that the usual inline Walbro pump that I have won't be able to do that. The HP pump and "GM" filter will be mounted up fairly high right under the floor. I have a low pressure, high volume Carter electric pump that I could put right next to the fuel tank. I'd just really rather not have two pumps if I don't need to.
Experiences?
Thoughts?
Ideas?
ntsqd
technerd
- Thread starter
- #78
Crickets?
In other news, I finally got the trans !!!!!!!
It and the engine are in the truck, but I need to make some small mods to the block mounted parts of the front mounts. then the combo will be installed for good! Pictures to follow, gotta solve a house-fab problem and then I'll be working on it again today.
In other news, I finally got the trans !!!!!!!
It and the engine are in the truck, but I need to make some small mods to the block mounted parts of the front mounts. then the combo will be installed for good! Pictures to follow, gotta solve a house-fab problem and then I'll be working on it again today.
PabloCruise
SILVER Star
Can't wait to see the latest pics...
ntsqd
technerd
- Thread starter
- #80
Different shot of the engine mount that I made to fit the OE block bracket using rubber FJ60 spring-eye bushings:
Fabricated cross-member, trans mount, and the trans pan with the drain and temperature sender:
The centering pilot that I made since the clocking ring's thickness defeats the original, note the brass -4 AN adapter fitting for the t/c vent. I modified the trans case to also have a -4 fitting for it's vent. At some later date I'll build a manifold to route all of the vents to, and mount it in the engine bay somewhere.
Fabricated cross-member, trans mount, and the trans pan with the drain and temperature sender:
The centering pilot that I made since the clocking ring's thickness defeats the original, note the brass -4 AN adapter fitting for the t/c vent. I modified the trans case to also have a -4 fitting for it's vent. At some later date I'll build a manifold to route all of the vents to, and mount it in the engine bay somewhere.
