Builds Moonshine - A Build Thread (3 Viewers)

[davegonz]

What tcase are you running, Johnny? NP205? How about an NP205 mounted parking brake?

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/general-4x4-discussion/693006-np205-parking-brake.html

 

[davegonz]

This looks interesting, too.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

I did a lot of reading on the Eldo calipers too, and found only a few who said they worked ok. The rest said they were garbage basically. Get the HD rear output for the D300 and toss the disc brake kit on it. It should stop you just fine.

another vote against eldo calipers .. well if you are getting 'em coz you wand / like to have functional e-brake .. there is no such thing ..

Don't waste your time / cash on 'em ..

Tapage, have you tried these brakes before? This writeup on pirate makes me believe that if the cable bracket is done correctly that they can stop some big tires pretty easily.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/chevy/1081186-14-bolt-disk-brake-conversion-e-brake.html

What tcase are you running, Johnny? NP205? How about an NP205 mounted parking brake?

I'm running a Dana300 and transfer-mounted e-brakes are available. The problem with that is that if I twist up a driveshaft or break an axle shaft, the driveline brake won't work and I'll have to rely on the service brakes.

A driveline brake is not an emergency brake.

This looks interesting, too.

That is interesting. Does that use a second caliper or does it tie into the regular brakes like a line lock?

More info would be fantastic.

 

[Tapage]

Tapage, have you tried these brakes before? This writeup on pirate makes me believe that if the cable bracket is done correctly that they can stop some big tires pretty easily.

this looks very very interesting ..

Right now I have no faith ( not a dime ) in these e-brake system .. please try it a prove me I'm wrong .. coz right now they are just a joke ..

I'm seriously considering the TSM t-case e brake kit VII

 

[Kurtis]

I would sell that old axle and buy a later model 2500hd disk 14bolt. They have parking break drums inside the rotors and they work excellent. A lot of those axles even have limited slip and defiantly come in 3.73 or 4.11. They are plentiful as well.

By the time you piece something together you'll spend more for an inferior setup.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

I would sell that old axle and buy a later model 2500hd disk 14bolt. They have parking break drums inside the rotors and they work excellent. A lot of those axles even have limited slip and defiantly come in 3.73 or 4.11. They are plentiful as well.

By the time you piece something together you'll spend more for an inferior setup.

I looked into later model 14 bolt axles and everyone seemed to want $500+ for them. I got mine for $200.

Limited slip axles are worthless for offroading IMO.

EDIT: I say that, then I find something like this. I suppose I could just buy this second axle and have spare parts from the first.
http://danville.craigslist.org/pts/3762766206.html

 

[GLTHFJ60]

I would sell that old axle and buy a later model 2500hd disk 14bolt. They have parking break drums inside the rotors and they work excellent. A lot of those axles even have limited slip and defiantly come in 3.73 or 4.11. They are plentiful as well.

By the time you piece something together you'll spend more for an inferior setup.

This is really good advice. I was operating under the premise that a late model 14b axle would cost somewhere in the range of $400-600, which is more than I wanted to pay. However, I found that AAM 10.5 ( late model 14 bolt ) for $300, then talked the guy down to $250. Brought it home last night.

Came with a set of roller wheels, disk brakes ( rotors + drums ) and a drum-in-hat e-brake. The guy said it has 4.10s with a gov-lock in it.

I'll pull the cover off to verify the gearing, then work on swapping my 3.73s over to this axle. Here's a question, should I keep the gov-lock or ditch it? Even though it's a limited-slip, I guess it's better than nothing at all, right?

More axle info:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/chevy/617796-newer-14-bolts.html
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/chevy/982778-aam-10-5-axle-swap-question.html

 

[ashack2004]

Yea I would think anything would be better than an open diff! Awesome Deal.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Here's a question, should I keep the gov-lock or ditch it? Even though it's a limited-slip, I guess it's better than nothing at all, right?

Lots of threads on Pirate talk about the gov-lock and how it's weak and tends to blow up under high load. It's also an odd operation, which needs some wheel spin to create enough pressure to engage full lockup. So, when wheelspin occurs, full lockup is achieved and then torque is instantly applied to the stationary wheel. This is apparently what causes them to blow up.

I'm thinking that I'm going to ditch the gov-lock and run open until I can get my hands on a real locker. Thoughts?

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/chevy/764275-gm-g80-gov-lock-diff-modification.html
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/tow-rigs-trailers/730955-gm-14-bolt-gov-loc.html
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/newbie-general-4x4-discussion/995952-gov-lock-open.html
Gov-lock vs open carriers:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/newbie-general-4x4-discussion/393661-14-bolt-gov-lock.html
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/chevy/900816-14-bolt-gov-lock.html

Here's how the gov-lock works:

Yea I would think anything would be better than an open diff! Awesome Deal.

Agreed, unless it increases the chances of breakage on the trail, which this thing seems to do.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

It isn't called the Gov-Bomb for nothing.

If the AAM 14B takes normal 14B internals, you could get a Detroit locker for it from a junk yard. That would be about as unbreakable a rear end as you could get.

I think the AAM version of the 14B hangs down even more than a normal 14B. Are you going to shave it? What are the disc brake conversion options for it?

 

[GLTHFJ60]

It isn't called the Gov-Bomb for nothing.

If the AAM 14B takes normal 14B internals, you could get a Detroit locker for it from a junk yard. That would be about as unbreakable a rear end as you could get.

I think the AAM version of the 14B hangs down even more than a normal 14B. Are you going to shave it? What are the disc brake conversion options for it?

Gov-Bomb, lol.

There are two AAM versions, the 11.5 and the 10.5. I've read that the 11.5 hangs down about an inch more than the 10.5, but I can't find any pictures of one. I believe that this axle I just picked up is an AAM 10.5, which seems to be identical to the older 14b axles, in the center section at least. I'll pull the cover tonight to verify the gearing and that it has a gov-lock installed.

I do plan to shave this diff prior to installation and just sent an email to Ballistic Fabrication to see if they know whether or not their 14b shave kit will work on the AAM 10.5. I suspect it will, but I don't know for sure, so I'll keep you posted.

As for brakes, the reason why I picked this newer axle up is because it has disk brakes and a drum-in-hat e-brake from the factory. No need for eldorado calipers or disk brake conversion brackets anymore, I've got it all ready to go!!

EDIT:
As for locker options, I'd prefer to go the selectable-locker route. I did not like the aussie-locker in the rear of Moonshine and I suspect that the Detroit will behave similarly. Am I correct in that suspicion?

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Interesting. Is it still a FF like older 14Bs? I know some of the newer 14B axles are semi-float. Still a good axle though.

Around here, 14B axles are pretty cheap. Usually $100-$150 is the Craigs list price. I have 3 including one that came with a Detroit Locker and 4.56 gearing. Been too lazy or busy to get any installed, but it will eventually happen.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Interesting. Is it still a FF like older 14Bs? I know some of the newer 14B axles are semi-float. Still a good axle though.

Around here, 14B axles are pretty cheap. Usually $100-$150 is the Craigs list price. I have 3 including one that came with a Detroit Locker and 4.56 gearing. Been too lazy or busy to get any installed, but it will eventually happen.

Yup, this axle is definitely a FF. The major differences are the presence of more cooling fins cast into the center section, *I think* larger diameter axle tubes and the disk brakes.

When I pull it apart, I'll compare it to the older 14 bolt I've got in my garage.

For some reason, the 14 bolts around here go for more $ than in other places. Maybe it's because there's more wheeling going on in the southeast? I have no idea. Either way, I'm pretty happy with $450 for two 14b axles, with disk brake components and the right gear ratio. That gives me lots of spare parts, which are always welcome.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

For Drew and everyone else, here's a link to a post on Pirate that outlines the differences between the newer 14 bolt axles, including Dodge AAM 10.5, GM AAM 10.5 and GM AAM 11.5:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/chevy/1094244-14bff-aam-10-5-interchangeability.html#post14848937

all the above is true. these axles are not the same
both have 10.5 ring gears but there different. both use 30 spine shafts
as well as the 11.5. the dodge one does not have the drop out pinion with the 3rd support bearing.

dodge 10.5 specs
1 of 3 widly used axles disigned by aam off of the corperate 14 bolt design
the second is the 11.5 and the third is the front 9.25.
the 9.25 was based off the semi float 9.5 14 bolt

Ring Gear Diameter: 10.500
Diff Cover Bolts:14
Ring Gear Bolts:
12 (M14x1.5 LH)
Axle Spline Count: 30
Axle Shaft Style: Full-Floating
Pinion Diameter: 1.75"
pinion Splines: 30
Pinion Support: No
Carrier Breaks: No
Dropout Carrier: No
Max Output Torque: 6,242 ft-lbs
Max Cont. Torque: --

Popular Applications:
dodge / Ram Power Wagon 2005 - 2010 Rear
Dodge / Ram 1500 1/2 Ton 2006 - 2011 Rear mega cab
Dodge / Ram 2500 3/4 Ton 2003 - 2011 Rear
Dodge / Ram 3500 1 Ton 2003 - 2004 Rear
Dodge / Ram Van 2500 3/4 Ton 2003 - 2003 Rear


chevy 14 bolt( corperate design, now aam)

Ring Gear Diameter: 10.500
Diff Cover Bolts:14
Ring Gear Bolts: 12
Axle Spline Count: 30
Axle Shaft Style: Full-Floating
C-Clips: No
Crush Sleeve Yes
Pinion Diameter: --
Pinion Splines: --
Pinion Nut: 1-1/2"
Pinion Support:Yes
Carrier Breaks: 4.10 / 4.56
Dropout Carrier: No
Max Output Torque: --
Max Cont. Torque: --

References and Resources:
BillaVista 14 Bolt Bible
Popular Applications:
Chevy C20 / C35 1973 - 2002 Rear
GMC K20 / K35 1972 - 2000 Rear
GMC G15 / G35 Van 1975 - 1996 Rear
Chevy Suburban 1973 - 2011 Rear
Chevy Silverado HD 1999 - 2011 Rear
GMC Sierra 2500 1999 - 2011 Rear
Chevy Avalanche 2002 - 2006 Rear
GMC Yukon 2500 1992 - 2010

and for the hell of it heres the aam 11.5

Ring Gear Diameter:11.500
Diff Cover Bolts: 14
Ring Gear Bolts: 12
Axle Spline Count: 30
Axle Shaft Style: Full-Floating
C-Clips: No
Crush Sleeve Yes
Pinion Diameter: --
Pinion Splines: --
Pinion Nut: 36mm
Pinion Support: No
Carrier Breaks: No
Dropout Carrier: No
Max Output Torque: --
Max Cont. Torque:--

Popular Applications:
Chevy Silverado 2500 2001 - 2011 Rear diesel
Chevy Silverado 3500 2001 - 2011 Rear diesel
GMC Sierra 2500 2001 - 2011 Rear diesel
GMC Sierra 3500 2001 - 2011 Rear diesel
Chevy Express Van 2004 - 2009 Rear diesel
Dodge Ram 2500 2004 -2012 rear diesel
Dodge ram 3500 2004-2012 rear diesel

all axles share designs and some parts but are not the same in any way. just like dana 60/70.

i have worked on all 3
yes the majority of the carrier parts are interchangable from the corperate 14 bolt and the aam.minus the pinion bearing.
my rear is a aam out of a 05 and has a posi currently from a late 80s with the stock 4.10 gears from the 80s.
the brake mounting plate on the axle is different due the disc brakes used on the newer version. obviously spring perches, shock mounts ext are different
wheel studs are metric 14 mmX1.5 threads on the new ones but still have the 8x 6.5 pattern
diff covers are the same but the new aams have metric bolts. my diff gaurd bolted right up with the correct hardware

yea sooo thats all i got for you off my stored info

edit: 2011 chevy changed lug pattern to 8 on 180. i havent seen a 10.5 in any truck locally all of them come with a 11.5 gas or diesel here. i dont know if the discontinued the corperate design 14 bolt or not maybe someone else knows

 

[Tapage]

I did not like the aussie-locker in the rear of Moonshine and I suspect that the Detroit will behave similarly. Am I correct in that suspicion?

I never own an aussie .. but believe are the same as lock right ... and based on this assumption yes .. Lock Right and Detroit behave the same in the rear of Tencha back in the day.

 

[boots4]

I really need to update my thread but my current configuration is an older 14B running the late model disc with parking brake that you have. I found an AAM 11.5 (absolute monster!!) at a steal, pulled off the brake set up and adapted that to my 14B. Still haven't got the rear parking brakes hooked up but now I have something to play with. The disc swap wasn't a straight swap over to the older 14B but nothing that backyard engineering couldn't solve. The reason for my rear disc change was a failed Ruffstuff disc caliper bracket that had unfortunate collateral results. Things are fixed now and the Dora performed great at cruise moab. I am now running a proportioning valve on the rear circuit as these late model calipers are dual piston monsters.

Our trucks are becoming more and more like twins. I've got plans to monsta-line Dora's body.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

I never own an aussie .. but believe are the same as lock right ... and based on this assumption yes .. Lock Right and Detroit behave the same in the rear of Tencha back in the day.

Cool, thanks for the info! I'll skip the detroit and save my pennies for a selectable locker then.

I really need to update my thread but my current configuration is an older 14B running the late model disc with parking brake that you have. I found an AAM 11.5 (absolute monster!!) at a steal, pulled off the brake set up and adapted that to my 14B. Still haven't got the rear parking brakes hooked up but now I have something to play with. The disc swap wasn't a straight swap over to the older 14B but nothing that backyard engineering couldn't solve. The reason for my rear disc change was a failed Ruffstuff disc caliper bracket that had unfortunate collateral results. Things are fixed now and the Dora performed great at cruise moab. I am now running a proportioning valve on the rear circuit as these late model calipers are dual piston monsters.

Our trucks are becoming more and more like twins. I've got plans to monsta-line Dora's body.

Welcome back from Cruise Moab! I'm bummed I couldn't make it this year, but there will always be another.

You do need to update your thread! I'm excited to see some pictures of Dora up on the slickrock

You had the weld-on Ruffstuff caliper brackets, right? I was considering the bolt-on brackets, but the e-brake problem and Kurtis' suggestion led me to find this AAM 10.5.

A proportioning valve is on my short list as well. I bought a new MC because the one I have is no good, so I'll add one in when I replace it. What proportioning valve did you use?

 

[ashack2004]

Yea i have never been a fan of the Chevy running gear, Dana 60 or bigger has been what I have personally seen hold up. I know that Chevy used some Dana stuff but not like Ford or Dodge.

 

[boots4]

I had the bolt-on brackets from Ruffstuff. Cracks formed at the ears and then finally let go in a panic stop situation. I was amazed that 3/8's steel could rip like it did. Anyways I picked up an average proportioning valve from jegs, nothing special but I used some compression fittings like I did for the line lock instead of flared line like brake fittings which made it really easy to insert into the line.

I'm locked up front but open in the rear right now and am slowly saving for a selectable. I pound plenty of pavement so it's nice having the rear open on the street.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

I had the bolt-on brackets from Ruffstuff. Cracks formed at the ears and then finally let go in a panic stop situation. I was amazed that 3/8's steel could rip like it did. Anyways I picked up an average proportioning valve from jegs, nothing special but I used some compression fittings like I did for the line lock instead of flared line like brake fittings which made it really easy to insert into the line.

I'm locked up front but open in the rear right now and am slowly saving for a selectable. I pound plenty of pavement so it's nice having the rear open on the street.

I had to go back through your thread and find the compression fittings, that you said you got for free. I'll look into it, but I've already got the flaring tool, so I may well go that route. I'll search around Jegs and Summit to see where I can buy those compression fittings.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/showpost.php?p=4510384&postcount=938