Builds mcgaskins' 2013 build thread - Palladium (1 Viewer)

[mcgaskins]

Enjoying the picture story as always.

Any idea how much net weight this bumper adds after taking off the stock pieces?

May want to keep an eye on where the winch control box meets the grill. With one being attached to the frame, and the other on the body, they'll flex and may contact. Shouldn't be as much displacement as at the fenders, and the grill should flex without issue. Looks great!

Glad to hear it! It's very difficult to get accurate weights on everything without physically weighing the individual pieces, but the shipping weight for the Rhino bumper is ~130 pounds. That includes a TON of heavy packaging and a few parts you don't need, and I would say the actual bumper along with the mounting hardware is probably 100-110 pounds. The shipping weight for the ARB and TJM bumpers (from googling) is around 250 pounds, but I'll bet the actual bumpers themselves are around 180-220 pounds. The Warn winch shipping weight is 72 pounds, so I'll bet the mounted weight is around 65 pounds. Removing the stock bumper, the aluminum crash bar and related hardware is probably about 25-30 pounds, so if I had to guess, I would say I added about 150 pounds to the front end. From my back of the envelope calculations, I think I added a net of about 150 pounds to the front of the vehicle, so I think I "saved" about 70-110 pounds going this route over the ARB or TJM. I think the 2702 front springs are basically perfect for this setup because it doesn't feel harsh at all whereas with the stock front it was quite stiff.

Regarding the winch/grill interface, I was definitely concerned about the body and frame flexing independently and causing issues, but I have tested it in the field and feel pretty good it isn't a concern. I finished the front end on a Saturday night, and Sunday morning we left on an 8 day trip that included dune bashing at 35+ mph, 60+ miles of the Alpine Loop in mixed terrain, some sections of rock crawling, and more dune bashing on the way home. Then I went to LCDC for a day and ran a trail that included some mild rock crawling where I kissed a rock with the front bumper, and the grill never moved, squeaked, or made any noise at all. I was definitely ready to trim the grill for clearance, but I don't think it will be necessary. The only plastic trimming required on this front bumper for me was just the fender liners, and I found my wife's fancy sharp garden shears worked about 100x better than anything I've used in the past to trim the thick plastic fender liners.

 

[fos373]

@mcgaskins - what did you do with the front inner mudflaps? I see them, then don’t since I didnt see them in the instructions, I just yanked them off........ curious what I was really supposed to did with them........

 

[mcgaskins]

Short hijack, but relevant; You commented in the Ruby thread about your preference for the sleeker Rhino vs the bulky, brutish ARB (not your exact words, LOL!). Since then, I have realized that I would prefer a more understated look. My '08 has an ARB front. I am considering buying a 2021; in fact, Eric Sargent has us on the list for possible purchase late 2020 or early 2021. If I do go that direction, I will either do no aftermarket front bumper or maybe Dissent.

An aside, I thought Ruby was a beautiful color and a pretty truck. You led us on Hell's Revenge last year, maybe you remember us? At your suggestion, our two girls rode with Greg for a while because we had a full truck. Fun times!

Anyway, hijack over.

Bottom line: I really like the way you think everything through so thoroughly.

Hey @Rigger of course I remember you and your family! It was great having you on Hells - that was a very fun day! In fact I snapped this pic of you guys coming down the hill right after Mickey's Hot Tub.

 

[TeCKis300]

Thanks for the detailed info! I'm sure a lot of people will be following in your footsteps.

I don't think I can get enough pics of the beast.

 

[mcgaskins]

@mcgaskins - what did you do with the front inner mudflaps? I see them, then don’t since I didnt see them in the instructions, I just yanked them off........ curious what I was really supposed to did with them........

I waited until the bumper was mocked up before I did any trimming because I wanted to keep as much plastic as possible for a few reasons. First is noise attenuation, but even more importantly is debris and water intrusion into the engine bay. Often times when people completely remove the forward most portion of the fender liner on the passenger side, it exposes an Achilles heel of the 200 - the air intake. I think the air intake is in a pretty poor position on the 3UR-FE as it faces downwards into the passenger wheel well space, so if you remove the fender liner and do not have a snorkel, you're asking for trouble. Even in shallow water or mud, the passenger front wheel kicks water and all kinds of junk straight into that space, and without a fender liner or snorkel in place, it goes straight into the airbox. Fortunately trimming the fender liner is easy with a nice sharp set of garden shears:

Before trimming fender liners

After trimming fender liners

 

[radman]

Removing the stock bumper, the aluminum crash bar and related hardware is probably about 25-30 pounds

just FYI - on the LX, with a dissent front, I removed 40lbs worth of crash bar, plastics, and stock fogs.

 

[mcgaskins]

just FYI - on the LX, with a dissent front, I removed 40lbs work of crash bar, plastics, and stock fogs.

Thanks @radman I always try to be a bit conservative estimating what I've removed and liberal on what I've added, so that makes sense to me. It is an inexact science, but weight added to the very front of the vehicle affects handling dynamics so much it's worth paying attention to what you're going. Do you happen to know how much the Dissent front weighs? Your LX looks awesome, and I'm impressed with all your install work. What you did is honestly a lot more work than I would be willing to attempt with my limited skills and work space.

 

[Tommy Dwyer]

Glad to hear it! It's very difficult to get accurate weights on everything without physically weighing the individual pieces, but the shipping weight for the Rhino bumper is ~130 pounds. That includes a TON of heavy packaging and a few parts you don't need, and I would say the actual bumper along with the mounting hardware is probably 100-110 pounds. The shipping weight for the ARB and TJM bumpers (from googling) is around 250 pounds, but I'll bet the actual bumpers themselves are around 180-220 pounds. The Warn winch shipping weight is 72 pounds, so I'll bet the mounted weight is around 65 pounds. Removing the stock bumper, the aluminum crash bar and related hardware is probably about 25-30 pounds, so if I had to guess, I would say I added about 150 pounds to the front end. From my back of the envelope calculations, I think I added a net of about 150 pounds to the front of the vehicle, so I think I "saved" about 70-110 pounds going this route over the ARB or TJM. I think the 2702 front springs are basically perfect for this setup because it doesn't feel harsh at all whereas with the stock front it was quite stiff.

Regarding the winch/grill interface, I was definitely concerned about the body and frame flexing independently and causing issues, but I have tested it in the field and feel pretty good it isn't a concern. I finished the front end on a Saturday night, and Sunday morning we left on an 8 day trip that included dune bashing at 35+ mph, 60+ miles of the Alpine Loop in mixed terrain, some sections of rock crawling, and more dune bashing on the way home. Then I went to LCDC for a day and ran a trail that included some mild rock crawling where I kissed a rock with the front bumper, and the grill never moved, squeaked, or made any noise at all. I was definitely ready to trim the grill for clearance, but I don't think it will be necessary. The only plastic trimming required on this front bumper for me was just the fender liners, and I found my wife's fancy sharp garden shears worked about 100x better than anything I've used in the past to trim the thick plastic fender liners.

Well....are you going to post a link to the fancy sharp garden shears or what. Sounds like a must have for the tool box

 

[radman]

Do you happen to know how much the Dissent front weighs?

thanks! It was somewhere over 70 individual parts, but I took it one step at a time and had fun with it.


The front is 60lbs. Center section is 21lbs, wings are 12 each, and the rest was the steel mounting brackets and hardware.

So net 20lbs, but then the comeup was 90 (I think). 2 different weights on the website (net vs gross), so I err'd with the higher one.

 

[mcgaskins]

I had some issues with the front skid plate which Rhino calls a bash plate, and I think a big reason why is that it is one large, solid piece whereas the 16+ bumper is a 2 piece design that is far easier to line up properly. Because of my time crunch, I skipped installing it at that time because it simply wouldn't line up properly. It would have reduced clearance and strained the bolts that held it in place, so I subsequently had the skid plate cut to match the later design of the 16+. The pics below do not show the bash/skid plate installed fyi.

Here is what the truck looked like at each stage.

Stock with front strut spacers and BBS Tundra wheels with 285/65/18 Cooper AT3s only

Stock with front strut spacers and BBS Tundra wheels with 285/65/18 Cooper AT3s, running boards removed, Maxtrax added

Stock with front strut spacers and Icon Vector 5 wheels with 285/75/17 Nitto Ridge Grapplers (E rated)

OME lift (Builds - mcgaskins' 2013 build thread - Palladium), Slee sliders, Icon Vector 5 wheels with 285/75/17 Nitto Ridge Grapplers (E rated)

OME lift (Builds - mcgaskins' 2013 build thread - Palladium), Slee sliders, Icon Vector 5 wheels with 285/75/17 Nitto Ridge Grapplers (E rated) with Rhino front bumper, Warn VR EVO 12-S

 

[Rigger]

Well....are you going to post a link to the fancy sharp garden shears or what. Sounds like a must have for the tool box

If he did, he might get in trouble!

 

[Tommy Dwyer]

I had some issues with the front skid plate which Rhino calls a bash plate, and I think a big reason why is that it is one large, solid piece whereas the 16+ bumper is a 2 piece design that is far easier to line up properly. Because of my time crunch, I skipped installing it at that time because it simply wouldn't line up properly. It would have reduced clearance and strained the bolts that held it in place, so I subsequently had the skid plate cut to match the later design of the 16+. The pics below do not show the bash/skid plate installed fyi.

Here is what the truck looked like at each stage. Please read the caption before asking what the specs are

Stock with front strut spacers and BBS Tundra wheels with 285/65/18 Cooper AT3s only

Stock with front strut spacers and BBS Tundra wheels with 285/65/18 Cooper AT3s, running boards removed, Maxtrax added

Stock with front strut spacers and Icon Vector 5 wheels with 285/75/17 Nitto Ridge Grapplers (E rated)

OME lift (Builds - mcgaskins' 2013 build thread - Palladium), Slee sliders, Icon Vector 5 wheels with 285/75/17 Nitto Ridge Grapplers (E rated)

OME lift (Builds - mcgaskins' 2013 build thread - Palladium), Slee sliders, Icon Vector 5 wheels with 285/75/17 Nitto Ridge Grapplers (E rated) with Rhino front bumper, Warn VR EVO 12-S

Your build looks great. Curious...you went with OME with 2702’s in the front, 2722’s in the rear, correct? Did you use the oem strut spacer in the front as well? Reason I ask is that I have the same suspension set up on my 2010, with a less than stock but still noticeable rake. Your truck appears virtually level in your photos. Extra weight in the rear maybe?

 

[mcgaskins]

Your build looks great. Curious...you went with OME with 2702’s in the front, 2722’s in the rear, correct? Did you use the oem strut spacer in the front as well? Reason I ask is that I have the same suspension set up on my 2010, with a less than stock but still noticeable rake. Your truck appears virtually level in your photos. Extra weight in the rear maybe?

I actually ditched the front strut spacer when I did the lift. It does look quite level in pics I realize, but there is still a decent bit of rake (no weight in these pics - not even third row seats). The lift has settled to 1.75" on the front and just under 2.25" in the back, so it has roughly a half inch of rake. I have found both the 100 and 200 to drive best when there is 0.5-0.75" rake, and when they're perfectly leveled the front end doesn't feel as planted on the highway. This truck did not drive very confidently with the OEM strut spacer on top an original suspension with 99k on it, so the OME lift really transformed the drive.

Regarding rear springs, I've now tried 2701, 2702, and 2703, and for my applications 2702 is the sweet spot for the rear springs. I think either a heavy rear bumper or a long range fuel tank with a light bumper would do better with 2703s. Here is a thread I started a couple years about rear spring swaps where some members chimed in with great info (Anyone swap rear springs?).

 

[Tommy Dwyer]

I actually ditched the front strut spacer when I did the lift. It does look quite level in pics I realize, but there is still a decent bit of rake (no weight in these pics - not even third row seats). The lift has settled to 1.75" on the front and just under 2.25" in the back, so it has roughly a half inch of rake. I have found both the 100 and 200 to drive best when there is 0.5-0.75" rake, and when they're perfectly leveled the front end doesn't feel as planted on the highway. This truck did not drive very confidently with the OEM strut spacer on top an original suspension with 99k on it, so the OME lift really transformed the drive.

Regarding rear springs, I've now tried 2701, 2702, and 2703, and for my applications 2702 is the sweet spot for the rear springs. I think either a heavy rear bumper or a long range fuel tank with a light bumper would do better with 2703s. Here is a thread I started a couple years about rear spring swaps where some members chimed in with great info (Anyone swap rear springs?).

Got it. I don’t mind the rake, as the truck settles a bit when I do have it loaded. I think I’ve mentioned it here before, but it cracks me up to see all of the pickups around here that have “leveling lifts” installed, driving around with weight in the bed and the truck nose pointing towards the sky. Also glad to hear you’re happy with the 2702’s in front post bumper/ winch install. Updating front coils is one less thing to think about should I go with a front bumper.

 

[mcgaskins]

Well....are you going to post a link to the fancy sharp garden shears or what. Sounds like a must have for the tool box

I feel like we bought a bundle from Costco that included these because we have about 4-5 various garden tools from the same company, but these are the shears/scissors I used to trim the fender liner. They are the easiest things I've used to cut the plastic after trying a few different methods, and the cuts are super clean.

Fiskars 4.5 in. Steel Blades Ultimate Garden Shears 356922 - The Home Depot

Cut open a wide range of heavy-duty garden materials including fertilizer bags, landscape fabric, screens and more with the multi-use Fiskars Multi-purpose Garden Shears. From cutting bed lining to adding

www.homedepot.com

 

[Tommy Dwyer]

I feel like we bought a bundle from Costco that included these because we have about 4-5 various garden tools from the same company, but these are the shears/scissors I used to trim the fender liner. They are the easiest things I've used to cut the plastic after trying a few different methods, and the cuts are super clean.

Fiskars 4.5 in. Steel Blades Ultimate Garden Shears 356922 - The Home Depot

Cut open a wide range of heavy-duty garden materials including fertilizer bags, landscape fabric, screens and more with the multi-use Fiskars Multi-purpose Garden Shears. From cutting bed lining to adding

www.homedepot.com

Thanks for the link, ordered

 

[ttnelson]

Love the build and really appreciate all of the effort and detail in your posts. I’ve got a Rhino bumper coming for my 2020 LC. I’m wondering if you remember how much plastic trimming there was in the fender well when you installed the Rhino bumper on ruby? Thanks again for the great post.

 

[mcgaskins]

Love the build and really appreciate all of the effort and detail in your posts. I’ve got a Rhino bumper coming for my 2020 LC. I’m wondering if you remember how much plastic trimming there was in the fender well when you installed the Rhino bumper on ruby? Thanks again for the great post.

I removed more on the 16 because it was easier to get it out of the way, but I installed a snorkel at the same time which made me less concerned about any water intrusion. I kept as much plastic as possible on this one for airbox protection and to keep the engine bay cleaner.

 

[mcgaskins]

Loving the detail in the thread, and the great pics. It makes a build thread that biut more enjoyable! I couldnt find it in your "novels" haha but I believe you are now running a 2" Lift? Judging by those part numbers

I finally got around to measuring, and I'm sitting at 22.5" from the front hub to the fender (measurement ignores tire impact) and 23.5" from the rear hub to the fender. Both of those measurements are right at a 2" lift from stock and maintains a decent bit of rake. In the back, I swapped one third row seat for an ARB drawer which is relatively loaded with stuff, and I keep a full kit of recovery gear in the back as well. I think with some weight added in the back it would "level" the truck more, but I find it drives better with about 0.5-1" of rake. Interestingly, with this lift/tire/wheel combo, I think it doesn't visually appear to have much rake at all now even though the measurements tell a different story.

 

[mcgaskins]

I had some issues with the front skid plate which Rhino calls a bash plate, and I think a big reason why is that it is one large, solid piece whereas the 16+ bumper is a 2 piece design that is far easier to line up properly. Because of my time crunch, I skipped installing it at that time because it simply wouldn't line up properly. It would have reduced clearance and strained the bolts that held it in place, so I subsequently had the skid plate cut to match the later design of the 16+. The pics below do not show the bash/skid plate installed fyi.



OME lift (Builds - mcgaskins' 2013 build thread - Palladium), Slee sliders, Icon Vector 5 wheels with 285/75/17 Nitto Ridge Grapplers (E rated) with Rhino front bumper, Warn VR EVO 12-S

To build on this last post, I was not impressed with the way the Rhino 1 piece skid plate fit. The 16+ front skid / bash plate is a 2 piece design, and it fits significantly better. I have since cut the skid to fit, but the next stage from the above pics was to get some protection underneath while I figured out what to do with the Rhino piece. I have had the ARB skids in the past, and while I don't necessarily love every piece, I really like the front diff skid for fit/finish, protection, weight, and cost. I am only installing most of the elements of the kit and avoiding others like the transfer case "skid" which bolts to the case itself and can actually cause damage to it if it takes a direct hit. There are first hand accounts of people hitting the t case skid and creating leaks and damage as a result, so even the stock setup here is better (Slee, Budbuilt, Dissent, etc. all make good complete kits - though all are more expensive). I think the rest of the pieces are good quality, and like I've mentioned before I am a big fan of ARB in general.

One bonus is that the ARB stuff fits and lines up perfectly with just the right amount of adjustment. The Rhino bumper fine tuning takes forever, but from unboxing to mounted the front ARB skid took under 10 minutes.

Good fit and finish on the back side

Looks and fits great

First test worked well