Let's talk about reciever winching (1 Viewer)

[rubicondon53]

Hmmmm,, class III receiver hitches are rated at 8,000 lbs for straight line trailer towing.. Our rigs weigh 6,000 lbs and up.. When we're stuck, that line pull weight can easily double depending on how stuck we might be, in which case we break out our pulleys to double the line pull.. I've often toyed with the idea, but after doing the math, and grappling with the physics, my imagination envisions a twisted wreck of steel.. But then again, I'm an old school fuddyduddy, a bit skeptical of all but the tried and true...

 

[bhicks]

Here you go. I have been running a winch on my front and rear receiver hitch for years. Did this on my Bronco, my old 4Runner, my CJ, TJ, and my XJ, and now on my current 80. I LOVE the ability to run my winch front and rear and LOVE the ability to leave it in the garage and out of the elements when not in use. I have actually been using the harbor freight universal mount. I did bend it on a semi side pull early on but just reinforced it with some angel iron and some more welds in key places. It has been 8 years and MANY tugs on the winch with no ill effect.

 

[bhicks]

Here's the build thread for the front bumper:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/stage-2-front-bumper-design.730708/

Here's the build thread for the rear bumper:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/thoughts-on-my-bumper-design.707926/

Here's the real world version of that.

 

[Heckraiser]

Bhicks, sounds like you've used the winch at least a few times Have you run into the issue that others are talking about, not being able to mount the basket because the bumper is up against an obstacle? How often (maybe as a percentage?) have you used it on the rear bumper?

P.S. I'll probably be ordering your cup holders and an emblem when I get a few bucks

 

[bhicks]

Hmmmm,, class III receiver hitches are rated at 8,000 lbs for straight line trailer towing.. Our rigs weigh 6,000 lbs and up.. When we're stuck, that line pull weight can easily double depending on how stuck we might be, in which case we break out our pulleys to double the line pull.. I've often toyed with the idea, but after doing the math, and grappling with the physics, my imagination envisions a twisted wreck of steel.. But then again, I'm an old school fuddyduddy, a bit skeptical of all but the tried and true...

You have to first look at what I'm winching with and it's NOT a class III hitch. I understand the engineering that goes into those and the load tests they are put through. My front and rear bumpers are many times stronger then a class III hitch. I designed the bumpers for hard loads from a winch and not towing a trailer on pavement. I probably have 10 times the amount of structural welds and have tied into the frame with more hardware and contact points. There is no way my 9000lbs rough country winch or my old warn 9500 could ever rip either bumper off. The weak link is definately the universal mount and not the tube bumper or frame. If the universal mount ever bends then I'm out $40. I will head back to harbor freight and pick up another and add the same welds and angle iron as I did the first time. this system has been tried and tested by me quite a few times. I would definately think twice about using a class III hitch like the factory ones that came on our 80's. That would be a tad sketchy. I have helped MANY of stuck wheelers and snow rookies by hooking my winch onto their tow hitch in siutations I couldn't get my rig down to them and I have not had a "twisted wreck of steel" yet BUT..... I have not done any winching on a class III attached to my own rig. I like to let others test the physics.

 

[bhicks]

Bhicks, sounds like you've used the winch at least a few times Have you run into the issue that others are talking about, not being able to mount the basket because the bumper is up against an obstacle? How often (maybe as a percentage?) have you used it on the rear bumper?

P.S. I'll probably be ordering your cup holders and an emblem when I get a few bucks

I have used this set up quite a few times. Probably 75% of the time I'm pulling dumb arse teenagers out of ditches in the snow. I live in the socal mountains so folks aren't used to snow around here and seem to drop quite a few IQ points when we get it. The other 25% of the winching has been on the trail. I can say this; I have run into a few situations where my front bumper was propped up on a rock and I couldn't get the winch in there. That usually means I need to back up. If I'm REALLY stuck then I just hook the winch up to the rear and go that way. In reality, there has been way more situations that my universal mounted winch could get in and get the job done when all the permenately mounted winches could not. In life there is usually the designated driver, on the trail I have become the designated wincher. It kinda sucks. I can get my winch mounted front or rear AND mounted to the rears of other rigs that we just can't get to. With a universal mounted winch and a couple of quality snatch blocks you can pretty much get anyone unstuck in any situation. I have also used my winch for landscaping (moving bolders and railroad ties around the property) quite a few times. My neighbor has also used my winch numerous times for similar projects and he just mounts it to the rear of his truck. To put it simply; a winch on a universal mount is an all purpose tool. A winch mounted permenetly to the front of your rig is for recovery only and is now a target for vandalism.

 

[TDavidson]

Like the idea. Where do you carry it?

 

[tag3]

I did use an 8000lb. receiver mount on the back and the front of my 4skinner. Used it a few times and worked out quite well.

 

[rubicondon53]

Bhicks, that's a very good and stout system, and I'm sure it works well. Sounds like you're up in the San Gabriel's so I gotta ask, do you remember being able to wheel both the Big and Little Tahungas? I'm sure they are shut down by now. Used to wheel up there in my 40 back in late 70s..

 

[bhicks]

Bhicks, that's a very good and stout system, and I'm sure it works well. Sounds like you're up in the San Gabriel's so I gotta ask, do you remember being able to wheel both the Big and Little Tahungas? I'm sure they are shut down by now. Used to wheel up there in my 40 back in late 70s..

I am actually in the San Berdu mountains near Big Bear. I have not wheeled those trails in over 10 years so I don't know the answer to your question. The trails I regularly run is Holcomb creek, Dishpan, John Bull, Gold mtn., Cleghorn, and a few others.

 

[bhicks]

Like the idea. Where do you carry it?

It stays in my garage 90% of the time. In the winter I carry it a lot more and wheelin days. for wheelin days I will usually just mount it to the front bumper. If I need to keep it inside then I use tie downs and strap it to the 3rd row seat brackets. Ideally I want to weld up a trailer hitch mount and bolt that to the floor in the back so I can actually hard mount it. I had that set up in 3 of my Jeeps. I just haven't had the time for that little project. It's on the list.

 

[gahi]

Not a receiver mount, but similar idea. I have a ramsey worm gear winch in a mount the uses chains to secure it. It lives on my trailer most of the time. I have used it on my pickup a few times pulling other people. You can hook it to anything as long as your cables reach. Tree's, rocks, other vehicles, any anchors. I have a set of 2/0 25ft jumper cables that I use to power it.

The same could be done with the receiver mount and an appropriate shackle.

 

[Schmutz]

Here you go. I have been running a winch on my front and rear receiver hitch for years. Did this on my Bronco, my old 4Runner, my CJ, TJ, and my XJ, and now on my current 80. I LOVE the ability to run my winch front and rear and LOVE the ability to leave it in the garage and out of the elements when not in use. I have actually been using the harbor freight universal mount. I did bend it on a semi side pull early on but just reinforced it with some angel iron and some more welds in key places. It has been 8 years and MANY tugs on the winch with no ill effect.

I have a 9K winch for my 80. I am in the process of pricing and obtaining materials to build a front hitch mount next week. Since you have heaps of experience with this, I wonder if you might be willing to make a few recommendations about wiring options. I'm still undecided about best method of running power to the front and also rear, also simple yet safe connect/disconnect methods for the power wires. Some simply use 25' jumper cables. I'd sure appreciate and welcome your input.

 

[bhicks]

No wiring on my end. I bought some 4 gauge jumper cable wires long enough to reach all the way to the back. I then bought some bull dog quick release winch plugs. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007JMTS14?psc=1
I cut the ends off one end of the jumper cable and added the quick release connection. I then added the same connection at the end of the winch wires. No wiring needed. This allows me to use my winch on any of my vehicles. If someone is on the trail and in a spot that I can't get to them, I can attach my winch to their rear hitch and use their battery and yank them out. It's not a popular system, but EXTREMELY functional. I have the new 4 guage wires and bull dog quick connects sitting in my garage right now getting ready for use in my 100 series build.

 

[Sam I Am]

I ran that set up with wires to the front and rear on my old mini truck. Wouldn't do it again. Transporting it when not in use is a pain in the back side. If you keep it in the receivers, it ruins your approach or departure angles. Our you can racket strap it down in the back like I did. You just then have to worry about it flying around in a wreck. Mine came loose in a rollover on the trail.
Other issue is when you need it, you are normally on loose, slippery, or on even terrain. Or all the above. Not really condusive to carrying a 100 plus pound winch and crattle to the front or back of the truck. My 200lbs plus another 100lbs make you sink pretty deep in the mud.

 

[bhicks]

I ran that set up with wires to the front and rear on my old mini truck. Wouldn't do it again. Transporting it when not in use is a pain in the back side. If you keep it in the receivers, it ruins your approach or departure angles. Our you can racket strap it down in the back like I did. You just then have to worry about it flying around in a wreck. Mine came loose in a rollover on the trail.
Other issue is when you need it, you are normally on loose, slippery, or on even terrain. Or all the above. Not really condusive to carrying a 100 plus pound winch and crattle to the front or back of the truck. My 200lbs plus another 100lbs make you sink pretty deep in the mud.

I think with mud in the mix I would not be real fond of the universal winch mount system either but in SoCal we don't deal with much mud. Also, get rid of the steel cable and get some synthetic rope. Takes 20-30lbs of weight off. There were times that having to move the winch around on unstable ground was a pita but there were a lot more times that I was able to winch in situations that a front mounted winch only couldn't do. I also used the winch on other vehicles hitches that slid off the road in icy conditions. The universal mount system is more of a multi purpose tool, while the hard mount front winch bumper is more for offroad recovery only.

 

[Stuckinthe80s]

The universal mount system is more of a multi purpose tool, while the hard mount front winch bumper is more for offroad recovery only...

This is really the meat of the matter... For those of us that don't care to rock climb or mud bog, a universal mount is an excellent option. I've wheeled (lightly) for years with only a come-a-long as a recovery tool and it has gotten me out of a lot of what I would call sticky situations. Now I'm looking to upgrade yet have the same type of versatility. The universal mount seems to really fit the bill.

 

[LandCruisinMy93]

So last I read, class III recievers were for a maximum tow weight of 5000lbs and if you have a load distributing system which is a class III/IV recieved hitch it has a max of 8000lbs. with a class IV having a maximum of 10000lbs, with a weight distribution type class IV it goes up to 12000lbs. I havent seen a cruiser with a class III/IV reciever or a class IV. As mentioned for straight line pulling and tongue weights of not more than 10% of the rated towing capacity. So in a pinch a multi-mount winch would work. Though you are technically over exerting the reciever and overall design of the tow bar. Multi-mounts have been used for a long time with great success, but it's similar to using a class III hitch to tow an 8000lb truck, or to recover a stuck truck with a snatch strap, it may work a few times, or possibly indefinitely, but it's not safe. If you watch videos on proper off road vehicle recovery most will mention not using a snatch strap with an under rated recieved for safety reasons. But as I always say. Try it, if it doesn't work figure out the why and then fix it, and try it again until it works right. Just do everyone around and yourself a favor and exercise extreme caution and safety.
You can argue numbers of recievers all day, I just used figures from CURT and REESE as they,re of the higher ratings...you wouldn't want to see what u-haul rates their recievers at...everyone would be pretty disappointed at how under rated they are...pretty sure they use mostly u-haul branded Draw-tite recievers..though not %100 sure. Hope it helps.

 

[NCFJ]

I was introduced to the winch tray in the construction industry and later moved it over to my off road rigs. I wont repeat what was said by Bhicks but had the same results. Never had an issue and run with it ratchet strapped down in the rear of the rig. Consider this, all the large winch manufacturers have a winch tray available. You can be sure that their attorneys have made sure that the liability these items may expose them to is minimal or they would not sell them.

I've owned several trays over the years and none came with a warning about side pulls.

 

[e9999]

I wonder if the manufacturer may not worry about liability more because it's the frame, receiver, etc, that is likely to be damaged rather than the winch mount, which would likely get them off the hook (so to speak).

I also wonder about the issue of the winches being bolted on feet down on the trays, even though feet forward is the better way to go (and required for some winches). (sorry, pet peeve of mine, that feet thing...)