Is the 100 series really more reliable than the 80? (2 Viewers)

[SaturnAscends]

It seems to be a commonly held belief that the 100 series is overall a more reliable vehicle than the preceding model. However, I've begun to question this dogma lately. It does em like the 2UZ doesn't have as many common oil leaks as the 1FZ, and head gasket failure is far less common in the V8. But what about the heater Tees that routinely leave owners stranded, not to mention the ticking exhaust manifolds? That latter issue can cost almost as much to fix as a 1FZ head gasket - I've seen "get it out of my shop" quotes of 5 grand to replace the manifolds. This is not a common or expensive issue on the inline six. Meanwhile, the bottom end is much stouter on the 4.5, with its seven main bearings and beefy rods. The conrods on the 2UZ are undersized compared to its progenitor - the legendary 1UZ in the LS400.

The other elephant in the room is the IFS in the 100. Problems with the 8" front diffs have been more widespread than most would care to admit, presumably including Toyota. Why else would they "beef it up" with the 4-pinion change in 2000? The issues didn't appear to be resolved after that change either. If anything, they may have been exacerbated by the shockloads of the crude early version of ATRAC. There have been numerous documented cases of ring and pinion/spider gear failures on later model 100s even in completely stock form on something as innocent as a slightly snowy driveway, let alone on technical terrain on oversized tires. Front end failures in stock form on the 80 are very rare if as long as the maintenance is kept up. And as long as fluids are topped up and you don't let it overheat, head gasket issues should be avoided.

Overall they're both still fantastic, if flawed vehicles, but am I the only one skeptical of the claim that the 100 series is on average more reliable, all else being equal?

 

[nukegoat]

Define reliable. Total maintenance cost to keep on road? Ease of repair? Unexpected breakdowns assuming all service performed? Ability to limp home? Etc.

100 series are newer at this point so how do you even compare?

 

[SaturnAscends]

Define reliable. Total maintenance cost to keep on road? Ease of repair? Unexpected breakdowns assuming all service performed? Ability to limp home? Etc.

100 series are newer at this point so how do you even compare?

I'd say all of those things you listed would factor in.

I know 100s are newer, but the 100s are getting up there at this point too, especially the 98-99s. Let's say you had to choose between a 98 and 97 with 250k, both with decent maintenance and without major repairs having been done.

 

[Marvelicious]

The head gasket issue was just a 90s Toyota issue while they worked out how to get good results without asbestos. It stands out because earlier Toyotas were so reliable.

On the other side, I'm not sure why the 2UZ has a reputation as being hard to work on as that has not been my experience at all with my Tundra. It has been incredibly reliable and the work I have done has been easy enough... I suppose it would be more difficult in a smaller bodied vehicle.

Other than that, I've owned a LOT of Toyotas and I think of the 80 series as the last of its type, at least in North America. They have a few fixable weak points (most of which are well documented here), but Toyota really doesn't build them like they used to. I think the closest you could get to an apples to apples comparison would be to look at maintenance records of 96/97 80s and 98/99 100s. I think you'd probably find the 80s starting to edge out the 100 as time goes on.

 

[ranma21]

Both model LC are great. The 100 is for sure more refine and more comfortable than the 80 especially for overlanding travel. Both models will require quiet a bit of love at this age and will cost quite a bit if you were to bring it back to its glory day. I would say they 80 is simpler and cost less to repair than 100.

Brake booster itself is a big ticket item on 100 and will leave you stranded or worst, key cylinder rod will snap, starter cost more to repair, heater T is cheap and should be done every 90k miles or sooner, timing belt water pump/tensioner, fan bracket and related parts cost more and done every 90k miles, CV axles cost more. Early model front diff may explode. 03+ model may leave you without AC, audio, nav if pin 26 acts up. Early model may require main fusebox replacement. 03+ model may needs instrument cluster repair replacement especially the LX470 as the tiny motors cannot be sourced and led lamp starts wearing out within the cluster. Exhaust manifold may cracked and require replacement.

80 will pretty much require headgasket replacement and other while you are in there part replacement can run $3k-$4k easy. I would say all oil seals and gasket needs replacement as it is at least 27 yrs old now. Rebuild front knuckle every 50k miles. Exhaust Y pipe may cracked and need replacement.

I would say 80 more reliable and less issue if all preventive done including headgasket.

 

[Eicca]

I’d hazard to guess that things wear at the same rate on both 80s and 100s, and both have a small handful of gotchas, but the 100 is far FAR easier to work on in my experience.

Even the starter under the intake manifold isn’t that hard. It’s such a well-designed engine.

 

[SaturnAscends]

I’d hazard to guess that things wear at the same rate on both 80s and 100s, and both have a small handful of gotchas, but the 100 is far FAR easier to work on in my experience.

Even the starter under the intake manifold isn’t that hard. It’s such a well-designed engine.

Really? I’d always heard the opposite - that exhaust manifolds and the starter were a PITA on the V8 for example.

 

[Eyedaho]

Really? I’d always heard the opposite - that exhaust manifolds and the starter were a PITA on the V8 for example.

I mean, the starter isn't easily accessible like on some vehicles, but it's not that big of a deal to pull the intake manifold. Not something you would want to do in a parking lot per se, but don't wait until you're stranded in a parking lot.

At this point I think it's more a question of whether you value off road capability or on road manners and power more. At least with the power train.

 

[leonard_nemoy]

I'd say all of those things you listed would factor in.

I know 100s are newer, but the 100s are getting up there at this point too, especially the 98-99s. Let's say you had to choose between a 98 and 97 with 250k, both with decent maintenance and without major repairs having been done.

I would choose the 80 series everytime

 

[flintknapper]

My 80 series (now with 350K miles) has been MUCH more reliable than my 100 series (now at 265K miles) and I've had to put MUCH less money into it for maintenance and repairs.

 

[jpoole]

A few of the main ways that I consider "reliability" are operation costs (time and $$) and predictability long term. I think the 80 strikes a good balance here as once it is in good order it is very likely to perform with great consistency with large intervals between it needing "real" attention. I like working on cars but prefer to do it infrequently and on my own schedule and the 80 allows that without exception in my years of ownership. The 80 is pretty easy to work on and has great parts support compared to some other vehicles at least. I've owned other vehicles where repair durability could be unpredictable due to quality issues with parts or even original design specs that weren't very resilient/beefy.

The 100 is similarly reliable to an 80, but has a few more possible points of failure and some items that are a good bit more complicated and expensive to repair/replace when they do need attention. The brake system stands out in a comparison between 80 and 100 in my opinion as do the more complicated later engines in the 100 and the AHC if you go with the LX variety. The security systems that came along in the years that the 100 was produced can also be hard to work with when parts wear, break or need replacement though I don't know if this is often an issue for 100s. The integrated screens that cover essential controls like hvac in the later 100s are also more concerning to me long term, etc. I'm sure there are 100s that dodge some of the issues I'm indicating here and that mods can be made to work around them but as much as I loved the 100s/LXs I looked at I ended up getting an 80 as it seemed like it would be easier to live with as a vehicle that I want to keep until I become too old to drive.

I'll be interested to see how 100s hold up over the next decade or two and I still toy with the idea of moving to an LX470 as I love the way they drive when AHC is sorted. The 80 has been all that I hoped though and hasn't needed any surprise or excessive attention in the last 80k or so miles that I've driven it up to it's current 305k.

 

[Marvelicious]

I mean, the starter isn't easily accessible like on some vehicles, but it's not that big of a deal to pull the intake manifold. Not something you would want to do in a parking lot per se, but don't wait until you're stranded in a parking lot.

At this point I think it's more a question of whether you value off road capability or on road manners and power more. At least with the power train.

Yeah, the starter wasn't that big a deal. It's mostly the thought of it that makes it a big deal. Once you suck it up and accept that you have to pull the manifold, it's really not that bad. Easier than a traditional location in some respects: I didn't have to lie on my back in a gravel driveway.

 

[flintknapper]

Yeah, the starter wasn't that big a deal. It's mostly the thought of it that makes it a big deal. Once you suck it up and accept that you have to pull the manifold, it's really not that bad. Easier than a traditional location in some respects: I didn't have to lie on my back in a gravel driveway.

^^^^^
Yeah they left the ALTERNATOR for that.

Put it at the lowest point they could find. Right below the Power Steering pump/reservoir....so IF that leaks (as they all do eventually) it gets oil soaked and ruined.

And where is an alternator most susceptible to water, dust, dirt, debris intrusion? Why right at the bottom of the engine of course.

Yeah.....a Soccer Mom will never care where those two items are located....but if you Off-Road your vehicle and have an issue, it can be something less than convenient to change out/repair when you're way out in BFE.

 

[Eicca]

Really? I’d always heard the opposite - that exhaust manifolds and the starter were a PITA on the V8 for example.

Anything is a PITA if old and corroded but that doesn’t matter the platform.

Nothing on the V8 is hard to get to. Like even the starter, yeah it’s buried, but you just peel some layers off and then it comes out. They really thought through the accessibility of bolts when designing that engine.

It’s one of the reasons I don’t ever want to move on from a UZ-powered vehicle. Parents own a 1999 100, I had a Lexus GS400 and now a GS430.

 

[Marco Lau]

100s was soccer moms' dream when it came out...still is. nuf said.

 

[60 toy ota]

Nothing on the V8 is hard to get to. Like even the starter, yeah it’s buried, but you just peel some layers off and then it comes out. They really thought through the accessibility of bolts when designing that engine.

The A/C compressor bolts holding the fan bracket on disagree.
after doing a couple 2uz timing belts it got easier but i still think there's a lot that could be improved on there. To me it's part of the price you pay for having a powerplant shared across multiple platforms vs a mutually exclusive engine+chassis duo like the 1fz.

 

[excessive]

i've owned both -at this point several 80's and 100's and the 80 is truly from a different generation of Toyota build quality.
The 100 wins all day long in power, comfort, climate control, and safety .... but the 80 is just a simpler machine - and therefore more reliable. I also believe the 80 can tolerate much more neglect than the 100 can. One is not better than the othr, they are simply apples and older simpler apples

 

[Mrtwooooo]

It’s a tough world we live in when it’s full of bean counters and people who buy a car based on what features it has rather than how it’s built.
I think 80s were built in a time when the engineers really didn’t care what the bean counters thought and truly built a car that needed to survive in a 3rd world country.
I can’t speak much about the 100 series as I’ve never owned one but the 100 series seems better than anything else put out by other companies during the same time period. How many 100 series do you see on the road compared to Range Rovers or Tahoes of the same time period.

80's and 100's are both pretty close in my eyes. You just can't be one of those people that says "i'll drive it until the wheels fall off" and only be doing oil changes as your maintenace.

 

[SaturnAscends]

It’s a tough world we live in when it’s full of bean counters and people who buy a car based on what features it has rather than how it’s built.
I think 80s were built in a time when the engineers really didn’t care what the bean counters thought and truly built a car that needed to survive in a 3rd world country.
I can’t speak much about the 100 series as I’ve never owned one but the 100 series seems better than anything else put out by other companies during the same time period. How many 100 series do you see on the road compared to Range Rovers or Tahoes of the same time period.

80's and 100's are both pretty close in my eyes. You just can't be one of those people that says "i'll drive it until the wheels fall off" and only be doing oil changes as your maintenace.

GMT800s are actually pretty solid. The transmissions don’t seem to last as long as the Aisin units, but parts are cheap and plentiful.

 

[77mustard40]

I have a ‘97 80 series and a ‘99 100 series both have been pretty bullet proof.

The 80 was a hand me down in poor shape from a maintenance perspective. It took me several months to enough done on it to feel confident to let it become my DD. I did replace my head gasket a year ago but that’s the only thing that was a bigger challenge. Have to say I love the 80 platform, it still feels like a Landcruiser.

The 100 basically sits on its ass all winter in a fishing cabin and has been ready to go every time I visit her. I’ve replaced one coil pack and other than fluids, brakes and tires has been dependable. I brought it home during COVID to do the timing belt and changed out all my hoses and radiator, but I’d say that was all PM work and was straight forward. It’s a little quieter and more comfy than the 80, but I were heading well off the beaten path I’d chose the 80.