How much rust is too much rust!?

[robotriot]

Looking for expert advice on the cost of rust treatment, or possible complete replacement of parts on this beautiful beast Toyota FJ60.
I’ve attached pictures to show the extent of the rust. The exterior doesn’t have any. It’s lived in The Bay Area for the last 30 years in a garage, and taken on semi-regular adventure outings.
The mechanic said everything else was in great shape, though everything is original... so tubes, belts, etc will need to be replaced one day.
We are hoping to purchase this car as our new adventure mobile, and it’s priced at 9k with under 97k miles. I haven’t been able to find good info on what it would cost to treat or replace if our goal is to use this car for another 10 years and willing to invest some. By some I mean not a total money pit, but also willing to spend $500 or so a year to to keep her moving.
Any thoughts or recommendations?

 

[Beams37]

It all depends on your skill level and/or wallet size.

 

[duncanrm]

Lol.. would you look at that swivel hub!

 

[duncanrm]

If there's no external rust and the photos show the worst of it then rust wise its in fantastic condition! I dont see any reason to spend money on anything rustwise from those photos.

 

[robotriot]

If there's no external rust, and the photos show the worst of it then rust wise, then its in fantastic condition! I dont see any reason to spend money on anything rustwise from those photos.

Oh Damn, that's good to know. Mechanic gave me a good scare. It's owned by this amazing older Italian woman who's only used it off and on... You could write a book with her stories.

Anyway, that eases some of my worries, Thank you!

Here's an exterior picture:

 

[duncanrm]

Wow nice.. looks great in that photo.

Your biggest cost may well just be catching up on maintenance.. those swivel hubs are looking pretty nasty and there's a lot of labor involved to tear them down, clean, replace bearings, races and seals and reassemble. I'd be doing both front and back so you know they're done.

I'd also be paying close attention to the cooling system.. that radiator looks original and it may be due for replacement, whilst its out, I'd preemptively do the water pump, all hoses and the viscous fan hub.

 

[robotriot]

Your biggest cost may well just be catching up on maintenance.. those swivel hubs are looking pretty nasty and there's a lot of labor involved to tear them down, clean, replace bearings, races and seals and reassemble. I'd be doing both front and back so you know they're done.

Not being a super mech savvy person, do you have an idea on what it costs to replace those ballpark (in a shop, we wouldn't be doing the work).

 

[EscapeWagon62]

Great find, doesn’t look bad.
Buy a knuckle rebuild kit with bearings. You can do it yourself, several threads on that.
For the rusted spare tire rim, spray it with PB blaster, crumple up some aluminum foil and scrub. It the rust there doesn’t look horrible, paint over the rusted area with a $3 silver paint pen from a craft store.

Check your rain gutters and a pillars (inside the door jam) for bubbling rust. Easy fix you can view in my build thread shown in my signature line below.

Get some chain oil or fluid film and spray the underside of your rig. Looks like surface rust/oxidation but those products will add years to the components.

Hide all receipts and get used to sneaking new parts into your house.

 

[georgebj60]

I don't know. I'd want to see some pictures of the rear u-channels. There's some fairly heavy scale on some of the undercarriage, and the pictures you've shown aren't really of the most rust-prone areas. Get a second opinion of someone who is looking at in person....

 

[Wayne Jacobs]

By $500 a year to keep it running, I assume that you are referring to maintenance. ($500 isn't likely going to pay for many tanks of gas out there.) Unless you do the labor yourself, I really doubt that $500 per year in maintenance is going to keep up with the issues that a vehicle this old will present to you.

 

[erse]

$500 or so a year

Agree with others that is not realistic. I would budget at least 300 a month for the first year. It looks like a good start but it will cost you way more than you think

 

[batthewmrown]

If you want to see what too much rust is, check out @SHIfTHEAD's build thread. It looks like it's got a good bit of life left, but you're definitely going to want to do some mitigation work ASAP. That's money/time/resources you could direct toward a less rusty example to make it into the rig you want it to be.

Also, not to reiterate what everyone always says, regardless of your mechanical inclination, you should try to do as much of the work yourself that you can. This truck is supremely simple to work on and knowing the ins and outs of it will only give you more appreciation for it when something goes haywire and you're the one who knows how to fix it. The receipt from when the PO had Toyota rebuild the knuckles said it ran him $1200. I think that's a little on the high side, but that's a super well-documented repair that can be knocked out in a weekend and save you nearly a grand.

 

[robotriot]

If you want to see what too much rust is, check out @SHIfTHEAD's build thread. It looks like it's got a good bit of life left, but you're definitely going to want to do some mitigation work ASAP. That's money/time/resources you could direct toward a less rusty example to make it into the rig you want it to be.

Also, not to reiterate what everyone always says, regardless of your mechanical inclination, you should try to do as much of the work yourself that you can. This truck is supremely simple to work on and knowing the ins and outs of it will only give you more appreciation for it when something goes haywire and you're the one who knows how to fix it. The receipt from when the PO had Toyota rebuild the knuckles said it ran him $1200. I think that's a little on the high side, but that's a super well-documented repair that can be knocked out in a weekend and save you nearly a grand.

Good to know. For me it's currently a space problem. I can look into rentable workspaces or ask around for local garages... stuck in the city for now... But I love the idea of actually being able to work on little things myself, which is part of the reason why I want something like this.

 

[SHIfTHEAD]

pfffffffttttt, you call that rust? That's a beauty!

 

[g-man]

Those hubs..ie knuckles, look worse than they are. Spray some parts cleaner on them and clean up the grease and dirt on the outside. There is a plug on the top inside you can remove to put some more grease inside. More problematic are leaking outer axle seals which will cause a gear oil leak that gets into the knuckles then rolls down onto the tire. When that happens you know you will have to take them apart and clean out the grease, replace the seals, repack the bearings etc. After you clean up the outside ...drive it a bit and look for gear oil running out...like dripping off the 4 bottom bolts. If you aren't seeing that, or feeling some play in them, then just keep going unless you know for a fact that they haven't been touched in like 10 years or 100k miles.

I agree that you haven't really shown us pictures of the problem areas. The floor boards near the doors and rear fender well. The inside of the frame rail especially next to the exhaust and cat. The C channels at the rear. The rear shock mount cross member where it bends to go into the frame.

You don't see 4 original mud flaps and rocker panel trim that often. You have an older OME lift kit which is much better than flat worn out stock springs. Nice positives. Agreed you'll need to look at the radiator...looks pretty cruddy. Look for green stains running down the fins. Coolant leaks at the seam where the top meets the fins.

500.00 a year is unrealistic for maintenance if you plan on this being reliable for family outings or camping trips. Even though it is a low mileage and original vehicle, And probably worth the $9k, its 30 years old and things are worn out. Expect to replace or repair things like the smog pump, starter, rebuild the carb, fix electrical issues...troubleshoot failing gauges, etc. Chase vacuum leaks, replace worn window regulators and weatherstrip. Do a complete tune up to include new plug wires, spark plugs, check the timing, belts and hoses, replace all fluids including gear oil in the trans/transfer case and axles. Looking at some repair records and receipts may give you an idea of what has been done and what will need to be done.

 

[robotriot]

Those hubs..ie knuckles, look worse than they are. Spray some parts cleaner on them and clean up the grease and dirt on the outside. There is a plug on the top inside you can remove to put some more grease inside. More problematic are leaking outer axle seals which will cause a gear oil leak that gets into the knuckles then rolls down onto the tire. When that happens you know you will have to take them apart and clean out the grease, replace the seals, repack the bearings etc. After you clean up the outside ...drive it a bit and look for gear oil running out...like dripping off the 4 bottom bolts. If you aren't seeing that, or feeling some play in them, then just keep going unless you know for a fact that they haven't been touched in like 10 years or 100k miles.

I agree that you haven't really shown us pictures of the problem areas. The floor boards near the doors and rear fender well. The inside of the frame rail especially next to the exhaust and cat. The C channels at the rear. The rear shock mount cross member where it bends to go into the frame.

You don't see 4 original mud flaps and rocker panel trim that often. You have an older OME lift kit which is much better than flat worn out stock springs. Nice positives. Agreed you'll need to look at the radiator...looks pretty cruddy. Look for green stains running down the fins. Coolant leaks at the seam where the top meets the fins.

500.00 a year is unrealistic for maintenance if you plan on this being reliable for family outings or camping trips. Even though it is a low mileage and original vehicle, And probably worth the $9k, its 30 years old and things are worn out. Expect to replace or repair things like the smog pump, starter, rebuild the carb, fix electrical issues...troubleshoot failing gauges, etc. Chase vacuum leaks, replace worn window regulators and weatherstrip. Do a complete tune up to include new plug wires, spark plugs, check the timing, belts and hoses, replace all fluids including gear oil in the trans/transfer case and axles. Looking at some repair records and receipts may give you an idea of what has been done and what will need to be done.

Got it. Getting a better picture of what should be done.

 

[duncanrm]

Not being a super mech savvy person, do you have an idea on what it costs to replace those ballpark (in a shop, we wouldn't be doing the work).

I'm in Australia.. so dont know labour rates over there.. a competent mechanic would spent about 4 hrs per side doing the swivel hubs.. in Australia parts for this job would be about $US170 for both sides (Bearings, seals, gaskets, king pin bearings, grease). Its clear they havent been apart for a very long time so its time to do them. I'm assuming parts would be much the same over there.. but Landcruisers are ubiqitous in Australia and parts are just everywhere.. so maybe it'll cost more.. not sure.

 

[g-man]

I was quoted 800.00 about 10 years ago for a knuckle job. I bought the kit for 135.00 US and did myself. Messy and you need a few specialty tools including snap ring pliers. Keep everything in order. There are videos in the FAQ section to help. Also free field service manuals (search FSM) here you can download and go step by step. Recent threads show quotes around $1200 for a knuckle job.

If you're handy or have some mechanical skills or want to learn then this is a very cool way for you to get out of your comfort zone and start wrenching. If the wife is onboard that is a big positive.

Don't randomly replace or remove and throw away parts. Toyota parts can last many times longer than aftermarket and usually work better. REBUILD, REPAIR OR REPLACE PARTS AS THEY WEAR OUT. Let the truck tell you what it needs. Address leaks before they damage other things. Watch your oil pressure and temp gauges.

 

[Willard]

As FJ60's ended in 1997, I will say it as least 31 years old.
As others said $500 is not nearly enough and if you seriously think that is all you want to spend then...sorry to say....get a new car with free oil changes. Even a 10 year old vehicle will cost more than $500 per year on average (it may be fine for a couple of years them bam you are hit with a 2 or 3K bill in one shot) You are looking at an old vehicle here, they break down and need to be repaired. Even if you think you can do it, forget it.
A radiator for these cost over $400 alone.
When you first get it plan to spend at least $1500-2K on overdue maintenance and other repairs if you do most of the work yourself.
Not being able to do any repairs yourself, that thing will nickle and dime you to death at the repair shop.

Download the manual for it form here For Sale - 40, 50, 60, and 80 series FSM for a hell of a price.
Get a cheap set of hand tools to get you started and go from there.

Really these are glorified tractors and while a little more refined than a FJ40, not by a hell of a lot and you really do not need much in the way of tools. Any specialty tools (i.e ball joint separators) you can rent.
Rebuilding your knuckles is a dirty and messy job, but completely do able in a driveway.

Smog will be your limiting factor, but there is a lot of information on these forums.

Sorry for being so blunt, but I feel that it is important for people to understand these will cost to keep maintained and must be maintained or you are looking at larger bills later. This goes for any vehicle really. As parts are getting harder to find, costs go up .

It is impressive when a vehicle from 1980's makes it over 300,000 miles without an engine rebuild (more common place in today's vehicles). But that does not account for, clutch, ball joints, knuckles, u-joints, cooling, AC, old electronics, brakes, fluids, etc, etc,etc.

 

[gregnash]

As many have said here $500/yr for maintenance isn't nearly enough as you WILL have bigger things that break however, that is just an eventuality. If you are only looking to spend that yearly and want something that will not take some TLC and cause you to learn how to work on a vehicle then I would look at a newer FJ80 or 4Runner (if you are set on a Toyota). These vehicles are completely unrefined but that is their best character trait and one of their draws.

I get the feeling from your original post that you have little to no mechanical experience, may have some willingness to learn, but overall are looking for something that is a "get in and go" type vehicle. Until YOU completely baseline the vehicle these vehicles will more than likely not be, or at least in the less than $10k price range, or without a TON of rust. Like @Willard, not trying to be a douche but blunt as I have seen plenty of people that have wanted to purchase only to find out that these are not your everyday, startup and head to work vehicles right off the bat and they suddenly either are in way over their head or turn and try to flip.

Other thing is that there are very few mechanics that are willing to work on these trucks now days, most just want to plug a computer into them and have it tell them what is wrong. There are even fewer that know what they are doing, luckily you live near one, Georg @ Valley Hybrid in Stockton (@orangefj45) is going to be your go to guy if you decide to pick this up. May be worth a trip down to chat with him, see his shop and take in a bit of knowledge on what to look for.