This potential issue isn’t limited to 10-13. I have seen later model years as well.
GX460 P2714 P0761 Ultimate Summary and Hope For A Fix Thread (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter StriderWolf
- Start date
This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.
- Thread starter
- #182
Attaching the Sonnax guide to testing the valve body.
Ideally Would be nice if someone with the valve body codes could try doing this diag steps. It would also help identify which is the problem circuit.
#14 is related to this article - Diagnosing Solenoid Performance Faults in A761, AB60 & A960 6-Speed Transmissions - https://www.sonnax.com/tech_resources/345-diagnosing-solenoid-performance-faults-in-a761-ab60-a960-6-speed-transmissions
Ideally Would be nice if someone with the valve body codes could try doing this diag steps. It would also help identify which is the problem circuit.
#14 is related to this article - Diagnosing Solenoid Performance Faults in A761, AB60 & A960 6-Speed Transmissions - https://www.sonnax.com/tech_resources/345-diagnosing-solenoid-performance-faults-in-a761-ab60-a960-6-speed-transmissions
Last edited:
Now that it's been almost 3 weeks, if no codes here we may have found a solution. Anything you can share?
q
One more thing to ask. Has anyone had their transmission completely fail where the car is inoperable even after 10-15 minutes of "Warm-Up"?
I've got a 2012 460 with 150K and is my daily driver and I drive a good bit for work. Been driving with the codes for about 16K miles, and originally only had issues between 3rd and 4th gear, with the sport mode shift sometimes taking 3-5 seconds on cold start, which wasn't a huge deal.
As of recently, after running with sport mode on start up for about 9 months now, there are late shifts on cold starts at two places: between 2nd and 3rd, and still between 3rd and 4th. Have also noticed Reverse is starting to take 10 or more seconds to kick into gear on cold starts, sometimes longer.
These issues are not the end of the world and worth dealing with to not pay $7-8K for a new transmission, however if the transmission goes completley out somewhere and am stranded, I will regret not replacing the whole thing.
Main question (that we don't know the answer to) is if I am driving a failing transmission or a transmission with a glitch/issue that we have found a long-term work-around.
I've got a 2012 460 with 150K and is my daily driver and I drive a good bit for work. Been driving with the codes for about 16K miles, and originally only had issues between 3rd and 4th gear, with the sport mode shift sometimes taking 3-5 seconds on cold start, which wasn't a huge deal.
As of recently, after running with sport mode on start up for about 9 months now, there are late shifts on cold starts at two places: between 2nd and 3rd, and still between 3rd and 4th. Have also noticed Reverse is starting to take 10 or more seconds to kick into gear on cold starts, sometimes longer.
These issues are not the end of the world and worth dealing with to not pay $7-8K for a new transmission, however if the transmission goes completley out somewhere and am stranded, I will regret not replacing the whole thing.
Main question (that we don't know the answer to) is if I am driving a failing transmission or a transmission with a glitch/issue that we have found a long-term work-around.
Sup yall. This seems to be the collective hive mind regarding these transmission issues. I have the AB60 which shares some similarities with the A760 and other 5/6 speeds. The variability in the mileage of these issues could be due to a lot of stop and go driving mixed with not replacing the fluid timely. The other thing to mentioned as pointed out in the Sonnax report is the design of the valve body with maintain and controlling pressure putting a lot of emphasis on the SR solenoid. If you look at the TransGo and Sonnax rebuilt kits, you will see where the focus on the repairs/enhancements are sealing up the worn bores to maintain pressure and improvents to increase pressure to prevent slippage which increases heat and wear.
My issue:
I started to notice softer delayed shifts at 180k and had dealer replace the fluid at 190k, but shifting still felt the same. Then around at 215k I started popping codes after experiencing no shifting from 2-3, flareups, no-shift from 3-4. Best solution I came up with was maybe weird fluid dynamics and cold running caused this issue. Remote start and let the truck warmed up and it would shift fine without codes. Every once in a while the truck would not reverse or there's a delay for it to engage.
I dropped the pan after breaking two bolts. Replaced s3, and s4 solenoids on a whim although solenoids tested fine. Replaced filter and cut open the original with no signs of excessive wear. Topped off fluid and it was code free and shifting great for another 10k miles and codes popped up pointing more towards worn valve body bores allowing fluid leakage and pressure drop.
I talked to TransGo since they've been great to me in the past with my Nissans and said the shift kit and other things will prolong the transmission life and should resolve my issues. I'm ordering it and will install and report back once I get some downtime from work to tackle it. I'm hoping to get another 100k+ with the valve body rebuild before I do a full teardown.
My issue:
I started to notice softer delayed shifts at 180k and had dealer replace the fluid at 190k, but shifting still felt the same. Then around at 215k I started popping codes after experiencing no shifting from 2-3, flareups, no-shift from 3-4. Best solution I came up with was maybe weird fluid dynamics and cold running caused this issue. Remote start and let the truck warmed up and it would shift fine without codes. Every once in a while the truck would not reverse or there's a delay for it to engage.
I dropped the pan after breaking two bolts. Replaced s3, and s4 solenoids on a whim although solenoids tested fine. Replaced filter and cut open the original with no signs of excessive wear. Topped off fluid and it was code free and shifting great for another 10k miles and codes popped up pointing more towards worn valve body bores allowing fluid leakage and pressure drop.
I talked to TransGo since they've been great to me in the past with my Nissans and said the shift kit and other things will prolong the transmission life and should resolve my issues. I'm ordering it and will install and report back once I get some downtime from work to tackle it. I'm hoping to get another 100k+ with the valve body rebuild before I do a full teardown.
- Thread starter
- #188
.
Last edited:
- Thread starter
- #189
Thank you! Appreciate your journey, diagnosis and how you can help the community.
I have often wondered if the warming of the fluid helps it expand as so many mention it runs better in warm weather or as it gets worse, after warming up and then finally having to move to the sport shift mode.
Super helpful and we hope to hear back from you!
I have often wondered if the warming of the fluid helps it expand as so many mention it runs better in warm weather or as it gets worse, after warming up and then finally having to move to the sport shift mode.
Super helpful and we hope to hear back from you!
For those with Techstream, where did you get yours? I don't have a laptop so debating if getting a dedicated diagnostic scanner is cheaper since I have neither nor know what is enough for me to see real-time of commanded shifts.
How-To: TechStream In 5 Minutes
Getting Techstream up and running can be a bit of a pain. Hopefully this helps someone get started quickly. Step 1: Purchase an OBD-II / Mini-VCI interface. - I have sold out of my cables and supply chains are back in order, so no reason to purchase more. Anything like this will work: Mini-VCI...
forum.ih8mud.com
r2m
Richard
Amazon: Amazon.com - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07BCNPDDG/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Yes, you will need a laptop computer or a very, very, very long cable...
Last edited:
Long time reader. Figured I would put my experiences.
2011 gx460 130k ish miles. Won't shift between 3rd and 4th sometimes. Worse when cold. Sport mode does not really help. Did alot of valve body work. Used the transgo boost valve kit. Used the sonax end plug kit with o rings and also boosted the pressure with one of the adjustable valves on the side of the valve body. Replaced the s3, s4, tcc and Sr selonoid. Nothing has helped. Also replaced the torque converter. Ordering a new valve body and going to see how she does.
Seems to me there is a loss in pressure somewhere or there is a sticking solenoid. New valve body should fix. Will update when I replace and test. Plus I will have the old valve body still so I may beable to send it out to be tested and see where she fails and what fails.
2011 gx460 130k ish miles. Won't shift between 3rd and 4th sometimes. Worse when cold. Sport mode does not really help. Did alot of valve body work. Used the transgo boost valve kit. Used the sonax end plug kit with o rings and also boosted the pressure with one of the adjustable valves on the side of the valve body. Replaced the s3, s4, tcc and Sr selonoid. Nothing has helped. Also replaced the torque converter. Ordering a new valve body and going to see how she does.
Seems to me there is a loss in pressure somewhere or there is a sticking solenoid. New valve body should fix. Will update when I replace and test. Plus I will have the old valve body still so I may beable to send it out to be tested and see where she fails and what fails.
Also awesome info from sonax. Bottom of pdf shows the adjustable accumulator valve and adjustable primary regulatorvalve/boost valve
So you did not use either transgo shift kit or the sonnax zip kit? I believe either of the kits will fix your problem you're experiencing. The valves bores are still leaking within the valve body which is why you are still experiencing your issues.
The Transgo Shift kit reams out the bores and uses tighter fitting valves so it doesn't leak and "programs" firmer shifting. This is what John at IPT does with his valve bodies from my understanding and "Programs" it too.The sonnax zip kit uses o rings to seal the worn bores but also includes the end plugs which makes this kit easier and cheaper to install. Sonnax does offer oversized valves which requires reaming, individually. I'm not sure they have a HD version kit as I've used TransGo stuff in the past.
The point of these kits and parts are to restore and improve the valvebody function to normal "new" without having to buy a brand new valvebody from the dealership. Now if you've been driving like this for a long time and get a slipping pcode, it's likely your C3 clutch is on it's way out which will require a full rebuild. Smell your fluid and you'll know. These transmissions build up heat quick and I thought it was crazy when Toyota decided to get rid of the external auxiliary atf cooler on the tundras and sequoia.
The Transgo Shift kit reams out the bores and uses tighter fitting valves so it doesn't leak and "programs" firmer shifting. This is what John at IPT does with his valve bodies from my understanding and "Programs" it too.The sonnax zip kit uses o rings to seal the worn bores but also includes the end plugs which makes this kit easier and cheaper to install. Sonnax does offer oversized valves which requires reaming, individually. I'm not sure they have a HD version kit as I've used TransGo stuff in the past.
The point of these kits and parts are to restore and improve the valvebody function to normal "new" without having to buy a brand new valvebody from the dealership. Now if you've been driving like this for a long time and get a slipping pcode, it's likely your C3 clutch is on it's way out which will require a full rebuild. Smell your fluid and you'll know. These transmissions build up heat quick and I thought it was crazy when Toyota decided to get rid of the external auxiliary atf cooler on the tundras and sequoia.
Here's a simple table that will break down what clutches does what along with the solenoids in layman's term. The FSM has something similar but is a bit convulated with all the other info. I'm not sure which off hand of the valve body solenoids are PWN types so they are not a regular on-off type solenoid that you can check functionality by applying power on and off.
PWN solenoids typically control pressure or flow by changing how far open the solenoid openings are my changing the pulse frequency.
PWN solenoids typically control pressure or flow by changing how far open the solenoid openings are my changing the pulse frequency.
I used the transgo shift kit and boost kit. Also the sonax zip kit. It was the end plugs with o rings.
Where have you been this whole time?! I haven't seen your posts.
So the truck shifts and runs perfectly once it has "broken" through the sticking point. When driving I will turn off the car when it is stuck then start it back up and it resets the ECM to try and shift through 3rd to 4th. If it sticks once it will not try and shift from 3rd to 4th for the duration of the run time. When I cycle on off on once or a few times, depending on the day, it finaly "breaks" through that sticking point with a harsher shift, but after that it shifts smoothe as butter. No slipping, no shuddering, no nothing, just lights.
I had a good transmission guy out here where I am that used to work on 2jz stuff for a guy that raced. He replaced the torque converter and looked at the plates and said all looked great.
What is this C3 clutch? I have not heard any one talk about it yet.
Also, to add to post. I did not notice metal shavings in pan or extremely dirty fluid. When I first did a drain and fill the fluid that came out still had good lubrication properties (put the fluid in my fingers and rubbed them together) and was not burnt.
So you used a combination of both kits? I know some builders mix and match pieces of both kits.
Sorry, I'm not sure if I'm following you correctly. You used the entire TransGo Shift kit+TransGo Pressure regulator boost valve+Sonnax end plugs?
I'm guessing there's something going on with the 3-4 shift valve or the c3 clutch apply relay valve. The s3 solenoid controls the shift from 3-4 which inactivated c3 clutch. Perhaps fluid leakage past the valves somewhere. When you do pull the valvebody off for new, I'd inspect the valves and their bores plus installed o rings. The o rings could be slightly damaged from install to cause some leakage. Making a wild guess here. Valves shouldn't have noticeable lateral play. Look for nicks and wear marks in the bores.
I had to order all my parts from multiple vendors since no one placed carried everything for a one stop shop at a reasonable price.
I only have 1 transmission rebuild under my belt so take what I'm saying with a grain of salt.
I did all 3 kits but I did the transgo kits at the same time then reinstalled. Still had the same problem, then did the sonax kit after with no noted changed.So you used a combination of both kits? I know some builders mix and match pieces of both kits.
Sorry, I'm not sure if I'm following you correctly. You used the entire TransGo Shift kit+TransGo Pressure regulator boost valve+Sonnax end plugs?
I'm guessing there's something going on with the 3-4 shift valve or the c3 clutch apply relay valve. The s3 solenoid controls the shift from 3-4 which inactivated c3 clutch. Perhaps fluid leakage past the valves somewhere. When you do pull the valvebody off for new, I'd inspect the valves and their bores plus installed o rings. The o rings could be slightly damaged from install to cause some leakage. Making a wild guess here. Valves shouldn't have noticeable lateral play. Look for nicks and wear marks in the bores.
I had to order all my parts from multiple vendors since no one placed carried everything for a one stop shop at a reasonable price.
I only have 1 transmission rebuild under my belt so take what I'm saying with a grain of salt.
I am thinking the same as you along the lines of the 3-4 shift valve/piston is binding up somehow. The bores are aluminum and the pistons are steel, no bueno. I changed out the s3 selonoid and nothing changed. I will keep posting my progress here.
You rebuilt yours? If so how much did it cost and how long did it take you? Any special service tools? I have done many manual transmissions but haven't messed with the auto transmissions.
