GX460 "Bad " Years (2 Viewers)

[K Dub]

K_Dub takes a big swig of Haterade and clears his throat...

Toyotas made in Japan are just built different. Other manufacturers *cough Honda cough* sell cars that will literally dissolve into a pile of micro plastics on their own in a climate controlled garage thanks to their lowest bidder supply chains. See my recent rant in the BS thread for proof.

Workers on North American assembly lines are asked to churn out twice as many cars in half the time, from shotty materials, resulting in manufacturing defects that would have been unheard of in the last century. These Gordon Gecko psychopathic B-school losers have ruined most American workers' ability to build a product with pride. To get real craftsmanship, you need to look to independent artisans (like some of the vendors here), or overseas where the business culture isn't infected with our Wall Street attitude of "f***k the customers, just hit my quarterly target or your job gets outsourced."

In short, there's more than just routine maintenance that separates a GX460 made at Tahara from the schlock rolling off the line at most other factories. Product quality has dropped across the board, and in most cases they really don't make 'em like they used to. Thank goodness there's still a few places that remain unaffected by that cultural shift and Tahara is one of them.

 

[xychromosome]

The lower complexity of our rigs certainly helps as well. New car models seem to rely more on flashy features and uneccessary complexity to sell units nowadays. Every time I am in a rental and come across features that require extra motors/servos/sensors, I think about how it limits their lifespan.

 

[SteadfastRocky]

Whooohhoo did I stir the hornets nest.

Couple of things, no where in there did I make a definitive claim.

Automotive engineering does of course happen in silos, its not holistic at all. A friend of mine is a window seal engineer, she does not consult with the individuals designing the motor and vice versa.

The floor mats in the prisus being faulty does in no way indicate the quality of the shifter nobs. And neither does the metallurgy of the Tacoma frames that rotted in half have anything to do with the transfer case design or build quality. Or the fact that early 2 gen tundra racks blew early and often affect the quality of the rear differentials or the interior bits of the cabin.

Toyota does a couple of things correctly identified here. 1. They are generally late adopters of technology, thank god. 2. They over build everything for its intended use. 3. They don't model hop they are almost always iterations of one another. 14 years of the 4runner is an excellent example. Same with the GX, I would 100% buy a 23 460 over a first model year 550.

There was a philosophy that I adopted about trucks in particular when I still did the Mopar and the GM stuff. You'll want the base model with power windows, the HD if you can swing it. For instance my first truck was an 06 1500hd, I sold it at 256k, it had 93 service records on the carfax, it saw an oil change every 3k, a trans flush, tcase and diffs every 30k, plugs and coolant every 50k.

I owned it its entire life, it needed; a radiator at 210k, the knock sensors at 197k a wheel bearing at 176k, and a wheel bearing at 94k. Thats it. It was an HD, never got towed, was daily driven, and road tripped. Overkill? Yes. But it didn't ever need a major repair.

The tacoma and GX have parts that straight up wear out faster doing the exact same kind of driving, with maybe a bit more dirt involved. Have we had major failiures with either? No, has the Tacoma in particular been kind of a nickel and dime affair, absolutely.

 

[r2m]

I'm sure there's a few of you out there that remember Chevy's and Ford's "planned obsolescence" Vegas and Pintos, respectively?
The Vega had an aluminum block with sleeved cylinders, blew oil at 40,000 miles. Both cars were good for about 40,000 to 60,000 miles and then you'd be off to the dealer again.
They were designed to keep the flow of costumers through the doors.
That is...
Until Toyota, Datsun, Honda started coming in with cars that'd go several hundred thousand miles!
I had one of those Vegas, tossed the factory 4 banger and dropped in a V8! That was FUN till I started ripping the uni-body apart from all the torque!

 

[SteadfastRocky]

The lower complexity of our rigs certainly helps as well. New car models seem to rely more on flashy features and uneccessary complexity to sell units nowadays. Every time I am in a rental and come across features that require extra motors/servos/sensors, I think about how it limits their lifespan.

100% agree, I have always lusted after a stripper model E90 m3 for that reason. But so few were made. We are way off topic now.

 

[SteadfastRocky]

I'm sure there's a few of you out there that remember Chevy's and Ford's "planned obsolescence" Vegas and Pintos, respectively?
The Vega had an aluminum block with sleeved cylinders, blew oil at 40,000 miles. Both cars were good for about 40,000 to 60,000 miles and then you'd be off to the dealer again.
They were designed to keep the flow of costumers through the doors.
That is...
Until Toyota, Datsun, Honda started coming in with cars that'd go several hundred thousand miles!
I had one of those Vegas, tossed the factory 4 banger and dropped in a V8! That was FUN till I started ripping the uni-body apart from all the torque!

Different era than what I am speaking about. However, yes the 70s and 80s were not consumer friendly for the domestics. Dont forget about mazada (less the rotary). They build, and from what I am told still build a very very good car.

 

[r2m]

Different era than what I am speaking about. However, yes the 70s and 80s were not consumer friendly for the domestics. Dont forget about mazada (less the rotary). They build, and from what I am told still build a very very good car.

Yup, had a feeling I'd forget one of those manufacturers... Mazda is one of the good ones.
Now Korea is replacing Japan with quality. My grandmother, back in the mid 1980's purchased one of the first Hyundai's and it was all cardboard and plastic interiors and I could probably drag race with with my old Schwinn Stingray bike.
Boy have they come a long way.
So, I've forgotten, what was the OP about again???

 

[SteadfastRocky]

Yup, had a feeling I'd forget one of those manufacturers... Mazda is one of the good ones.
Now Korea is replacing Japan with quality. My grandmother, back in the mid 1980's purchased one of the first Hyundai's and it was all cardboard and plastic interiors and I could probably drag race with with my old Schwinn Stingray bike.
Boy have they come a long way.
So, I've forgotten, what was the OP about again???

He's in here drifting the thread right with us. I have heard of a number of issues with Kia, but it could be a squeaky wheel and the grease situation.

I would take any year 460 over most other options in the segment. I would be stuck with HD gasser trucks otherwise lol

 

[K Dub]

...Tacoma frames that rotted in half have anything to do with the transfer case design or build quality. Or the fact that early 2 gen tundra racks blew early and often affect the quality of the rear differentials or the interior bits of the cabin.

Kinda proves my point, in a way. It's not about the badge on the hood, as much as the factory and supply chain that builds it. I wouldn't claim that a Toyota built in the scabby South is any better than a Chevy from Mexico, but there's no way Toyota of Japan would outsource their frames to Dana in Mexico for rock bottom prices that would result in Land Cruisers breaking in half on the shop lift. These trucks have earned their reputation for quality in a way that nothing from the NAFTA circlejerk can even compare to.

 

[SteadfastRocky]

Kinda proves my point, in a way. It's not about the badge on the hood, as much as the factory and supply chain that builds it. I wouldn't claim that a Toyota built in the scabby South is any better than a Chevy from Mexico, but there's no way Toyota of Japan would outsource their frames to Dana in Mexico for rock bottom prices that would result in Land Cruisers breaking in half on the shop lift. These trucks have earned their reputation for quality in a way that nothing from the NAFTA circlejerk can even compare to.

An interesting case study in that might be the cam tower seal failure in the 5.7s and their rate of incidences in the tundra vs the LC200. I dont agree on the metalergical issue with the frames, frame rot is a problem that seems to plague the whole Toyota line of that era. The difference is frame length, the lack of a full length body, and to some extent the differences in mounting points of things like arms vs leafs. the 470 is a perfect example of that.

 

[K Dub]

An interesting case study in that might be the cam tower seal failure in the 5.7s and their rate of incidences in the tundra vs the LC200. I dont agree on the metalergical issue with the frames, frame rot is a problem that seems to plague the whole Toyota line of that era. The difference is frame length, the lack of a full length body, and to some extent the differences in mounting points of things like arms vs leafs. the 470 is a perfect example of that.

That must explain why they also recalled all the 70 Series and Hilux trucks from the same era. What's that? Those trucks were fine, but the recall also effected Sequoias with full length bodies? Huh.

It must have just been the cheap Mexican frames used for North American customers.

Put it this way. Would you swap your rear axle with a Dana 30? I double dog dare you.

 

[Arailt]

Do I see another Lexus for your family in the near future????

Oh yeah. We test drove several 460s before we bought the X5. I guess I didn't do a good enough job selling her on the finer points of the Lexus. The BMW and all its interior plastic rattles and mechanical problems has certainly sealed the deal on no more German cars though. It's such a rattletrap, it makes my 460 sound like a Rolls Royce compared to a Civic. Her next vehicle will either be a GX550 or TX. Not for a good while though since I just forked out 2k to fix the leaky valve seal.

 

[ericm979]

I'm sure there's a few of you out there that remember Chevy's and Ford's "planned obsolescence" Vegas and Pintos, respectively?
The Vega had an aluminum block with sleeved cylinders, blew oil at 40,000 miles. Both cars were good for about 40,000 to 60,000 miles and then you'd be off to the dealer again.

Vegas used a unique cylinder process- the block itself was made of high silicon aluminum (a good thing generally). But instead of iron sleeves or chrome liner, which were well developed technologies at the time, they did something new: the bores were etched to reveal the silicon and that was supposed to be the wear surface. It didn't last. The fix was to bore the block and install iron liners, but that was expensive. (Most modern cars use one of the many variations on Nikasil hard coating for aluminum blocks, which is very durable and will often survive piston seizure in two strokes).

I don't think the Vega cylinder bores were an intentional attempt at planned obsolescense. More likely a case of insufficient testing of a unique process.

Pinto engines are pretty reliable and can be built for a lot more power. They were used for formula ford racing for decades.

Interior parts of both were pretty terrible but that was true of a lot of cars in the '70s.

 

[r2m]

Vegas used a unique cylinder process- the block itself was made of high silicon aluminum (a good thing generally). But instead of iron sleeves or chrome liner, which were well developed technologies at the time, they did something new: the bores were etched to reveal the silicon and that was supposed to be the wear surface. It didn't last. The fix was to bore the block and install iron liners, but that was expensive. (Most modern cars use one of the many variations on Nikasil hard coating for aluminum blocks, which is very durable and will often survive piston seizure in two strokes).

I don't think the Vega cylinder bores were an intentional attempt at planned obsolescense. More likely a case of insufficient testing of a unique process.

Pinto engines are pretty reliable and can be built for a lot more power. They were used for formula ford racing for decades.

Interior parts of both were pretty terrible but that was true of a lot of cars in the '70s.

Great post! But the drive train wasn't the only issues with these types of vehicles. The unibodies would rust and spot welds would break, all the interior plastic and cardboard would deteriorate, electrical, etc. If it wasn't one thing, it'd be another. 3 year was about limit for them unless you really babied it. My wife's Pinto that was given to her by her grandmother was clean and after we were married, we ditched for a new 4x4 Nissan extra cab pickup. That pinto was about done.

 

[MrTorgue]

new 4x4 Nissan extra cab pickup

Wish you had that in good shape today? It's worth a ton of money.

 

[ericm979]

Wish you had that in good shape today? It's worth a ton of money.

An old Nissan 720 4x4 pickup is worth money??? I had one of those: my first new vehicle. I got a deal on it because unknown to me they were blowing them out to make room for the "hardbody" trucks that showed up a month later. I was pissed for a while but the 720 was better looking and other than the transfer case that hung down low, worked as well.

 

[MrTorgue]

An old Nissan 720 4x4 pickup is worth money??? I had one of those: my first new vehicle. I got a deal on it because unknown to me they were blowing them out to make room for the "hardbody" trucks that showed up a month later. I was pissed for a while but the 720 was better looking and other than the transfer case that hung down low, worked as well.

If it's decent and not rusty yea. I'd love to build one into a camping rig.

 

[Acrad]

My brother purchased one of those Nissan extended cab 4x4s w/5 speed back in ‘84..

It was the name cutover year to Nissan where it still said Datsun in small letters on lower right corner of tailgate IIRC

 

[r2m]

Wish you had that in good shape today? It's worth a ton of money.

It was when they had the "hard body" design back in 1986.
Compared to the Toyota Pickup of the same year, I still think I'd take the Toy with the factory straight axle front end.

 

[markthegrea]

Im going to toss this into the mix.

I have bought Toyotas all my life: from Corollas to Vibes to Camrys, to an early truck. When I retired we bought a GX470 with 170k miles on it and I was expecting it to run forever. We do light overlanding (dirt roads mainly) and it ran fantastic.

However, I did replace a rear seal, 3 wheel bearings, three CV joints, an alternator, 2 brake calipers and replaced the steering oil (started making noise on a trip one time. The rack seemed fine.). I chose a GX because they are rock solid and "overbuilt to go 300k". I was under it twice out west fixing it at a hotel.

Now I get it. They are reliable. It never left me stranded. They are very easy to fix (7 bolts and the wheel bearing is out. took me 1/2 hour). But I was under the impression that these things were overbuilt and should last 300k before having problems. That is not the case.

So, I think maybe we should tone it down a bit. These are great vehicles, but we need to make sure we explain that they are not trouble/maintenance free. I WAS under that opinion because of what was written on this site and others.

And by the way, is there any documented evidence that these are designed for higher milage than their other cars? I hear that, but has Toyota said it?

(I just want to make it clear, we loved the 470 and now we have a 460. Very reliable but I am not expecting perfection.)