It would depend on the price difference and mpg difference. I like the concept of reduced complexity by not having the hybrid system, plus reduced weight, and more cargo space, and I could survive without the extra torque. I’ve never owned a hybrid but I think it will be surprising how how the torque improves the driving experience.
GX Twin Turbo or LC 250 hybrid engine
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I’d get the diesel in a heartbeat if offered in NA
Yeah, not even a close call.
I've always found for our type of dune driving
High speed dune bashing
That the petrol engines performed better than the diesels...
I'd rather dune bash with a GRJ79 over a VDJ79 for example...
I don't doubt for the low speed rock crawling/towing diesel would be better so i guess it depends on how you use it.
The petrol engines just always seem hot and ready to tackle any climb requiring high speeds.
High speed dune bashing
That the petrol engines performed better than the diesels...
I'd rather dune bash with a GRJ79 over a VDJ79 for example...
I don't doubt for the low speed rock crawling/towing diesel would be better so i guess it depends on how you use it.
The petrol engines just always seem hot and ready to tackle any climb requiring high speeds.
Having spent a lot of time on sand in your part of the world, you're not wrong but 99.9% of what we do here is not that.
Diesel engines have a very narrow powerband, rev slowly, and require constant shifting to stay in their tiny powerband. Definitely very different than a N/A engine like a UZ/UR V8 which makes good power from 2,700 rpm all the way to the 5,000-6,000+ rpm redline - much more flexibility to stay in a single gear and vary engine speed based on conditions. I've never driven on a dune (but would like to) but totally agree that a petrol engine would likely perform much better. Diesels are "tractor" engines that excel pulling at a single RPM for a very long time.
Is that a y61 Patrol?
Amazing vehicle in the sand.
Yes, you are correct.
Really no wrong choice if you know what your requirements are.
Someone in Australia crossing the canning stock route or wherever will have different requirements to me who will never be more than 1 hour away from home 90% of the time and do off roading as a past time (dune bashing; etc - short weekend trips)
I have also heard from a few people who have crossed the empty quarter that other than for longer range of the diesel they preferred the performance of the petrol engines out in the big dunes of the empty quarter. I guess it depends on driving style too and which lines you choose. Remember back in the day people used to cross deserts with barely any power but to be fair cars were lighter.
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Toyota was by far the most preferred platform but not exclusively. Nissan was a far second but more because of their popularity than its capabilities.
The UAE safari tour companies in uae prefer the LC.
The UAE locals prefer the Patrol.
For UAE locals I would say it is maybe 70% Patrol - 30 LC.
In Qatar it is the opposite we prefer LC.
The Patrol is generally better in the dunes than the LC.
LC is better in the rocks and just overall quality.
Not to side tack too much but what makes the Patrol better in the dunes?
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100% agree, for my use I’d prefer the diesel. Not many dunes in America. But lots of long mountain HWY grades and slow speed offroad crawling.
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Faster reving and much wider power band. Sucks to change gears in the dunes.
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I'm going to talk
Y60 vs 80
Y61 vs LC100
Both generations the Patrol felt more stable off road. Just throwing it on steep angles on dunes felt more reassuring vs an LC .
The way it handles jumps and high speed bumps also felt better. LC likes to land nose down and takes high speed bumps with less confidence (if we talk stock ), whereas the Patrol just handled such things with better finnesse/dynamics, honestly even if both had aftermarket shocks I would say the same. The Patrol lands like how a smooth pilot would land a plane.
The Patrol wagons also generally on average were lighter than LC and that made a difference.
Y61 with 4.8 engine also performs better than 1fz/2uz engine and more so when modded.
Swb y61 is also much nicer to drive tha a LC71 and again more stable etc.
Don't get me started on the Patrol low range...now that is low range.
However, the patrols don't feel as well built body/interior wise.
(diffs/gear/steering box yes excellent and more overbuilt than LC). However, the frame itself is prone to some cracks around the coil towers and the body/interior isn't as nice as equivalent LC of the era.
They also aren't as reliable as land cruisers. Lately some y61 owners have been complaining of some odd issues even on new vehicles.
keep in mind I am referring to the petrol engines. When it comes to diesel engines, Toyota easily wins in the engine/transmission department of the diesel cars.
Anyway y61 is going to be history soon and a big loss for the 4wd community here.
It is being discontinued from GCC markets in a few months.
Another interesting thing to note, even though Patrol wagons are very popular in the UAE with locals, the lc79 is more popular with locals vs y61 pickup...even though to drive and live with the y61 pickup is much better to daily.
Anyway...
Hard to beat LC reliability for daily use.
For modding in the on road drag race scene/off road 4wd competition hill/dune climb scene, the Patrol is usually the go to vehicle because its stock drivetrain can handle more power than the LC of a similar era.
For 2 wheel driving and free style drifting, they prefer the LC100.
It is a mix of this and that like any rivalry.
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That’s a big beach
You should see inland sea in Qatar
One of the rare deserts where dunes and sea meet
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Right.... I totally spaced that they built both with the V8 until 2008. Good catch. But since then, the 4runner has had the smaller motor.
I think was mostly due to a major spike in fuel prices prior to the 5th gen 4Runner release, rather than a marketing attempt to keep the vehicles separated by engine.
It seems like the Raptor and TRX would be very popular in the ME for playing in the sand. It would be hard to build a LC or Patrol to compare in terms of comfort and capability on the sand dunes. Obviously reliability is a different story. Same would go for the side by sides.
A Canam Maverick would be pretty hard to ignore for playing the desert regularly. The day may be coming where they'll run head to head with trophy trucks for 1/10th the price. A Maverick with well sealed cab and factory A/C and Heat would be really hard to beat as a toy in the sand. The Defenders already have OEM A/C and Heat, so it's not that hard to see a Maverick with the same options being done. For folks who don't follow that side of the powersports world - 240hp, 26 inches of factory suspension travel, 2200lbs.
Do you see them at all in the ME?
A Canam Maverick would be pretty hard to ignore for playing the desert regularly. The day may be coming where they'll run head to head with trophy trucks for 1/10th the price. A Maverick with well sealed cab and factory A/C and Heat would be really hard to beat as a toy in the sand. The Defenders already have OEM A/C and Heat, so it's not that hard to see a Maverick with the same options being done. For folks who don't follow that side of the powersports world - 240hp, 26 inches of factory suspension travel, 2200lbs.
Do you see them at all in the ME?
Ofcourse we see Raptors/TRX and other vehicles but nothing comes close to Land Cruiser or Nissan Patrol popularity. The LC for example is pretty much the national vehicle of Qatar, pretty much 95% of local Qatari households own atleast one land cruiser, atleast (most own more).
People also love dune bashing older LC/Patrol and they mod the hell out of those engines. It is more of a raw experience vs something like a Raptor for example.
When you have two offroad capable vehicles as the most popular vehicles on the road its easy to see how they end up being the most popular off the road as well, regardless if something else is better than them off road or more specialised and this applies to LC and Patrol vs other more specialised off road vehicles.
A manual transmission modified LC/Patrol just hits different and whatever quirks some of these older ones may have just adds to the experience.
The national anthem of the Qatari desert is a 1fz 100 bouncing off the rev limiter.
CanAms and other toys are also popular but more niche obviously.
