GX Twin Turbo or LC 250 hybrid engine (1 Viewer)

[Adam R]

So I was traveling last week and was given the keys to a brand new Prius. It was either the Prius or a mini-van so the Prius it was.

While the Prius had impressive performance and even more impressive mileage, (I only put 5 gallons of fuel in it after driving 300 miles through the hills of Virginia), the hybrid engine was mildly annoying at times. There was a nearly constant, albeit faint, electro-mechanical sound that I'm certain was the electric motor ready to jump in and do it's thing to keep the drivetrain as seamless as possible and of course the IC engine would turn on whenever it felt it needed to at stoplights. You could also feel when the gas engine kicked in anywhere above 30-50% throttle.

I'm just not sure I like the idea of a 4 cylinder hybrid. The NVH was certainly noticeable when the Prius IC engine engaged. I would hope it will be less noticeable in the new LC250.

Perhaps the new LC will achieve around 27 mpg, but I'm highly skeptical. Pushing air out of the way is the killer of mileage and the LC250 is pushing a lot more wind than a Prius.

I think I'd prefer the likely smoother twin turbo v-6 over the hybrid.

Which engine would you choose if you could get it in either the GX or LC250?

 

[Jetboy]

I think it depends on real world performance and mpg. Without driving the hybrid yet - I really have no idea.

I think I can say pretty confidently that if the GX is really 17mpg - that's a nonstarter for me for a midsize SUV. It's not good enough for me to use as a daily driver. And $80k is too expensive for me to buy as a weekend only toy, especially when I already have an FJ40 and a SxS that are both trailer queens, but quit a bit more capable off-road. It's hard to see where a GX fits in if not a dual use daily driver and weekend adventure/road trip mobile. At least in my life right now. 17mpg is not good enough to take a serious look for me as a daily driver.

If the hybrid really is 27mpg - I'd need to drive it to see how it is. That could replace my RX350 as a daily driver and road trip vehicle as well as become a nice replacement for my 5th gen 4Runner I sold last year for exploring with. The towing is my biggest hiccup and 6500 really isn't enough to not also have a truck. But I can at least justify having both with the 27mpg from the LC. Current plan is to replace the RX with a Model Y when we get back to the lower 48 next year, but I'd rather buy a LC if I can make a good case for it. If there was a PHEV version - that would be my first choice.

Depending on prices, I could also be a buyer of a turbo 6 if it gets more like 22-23mpg or a non-hybrid turbo 4 if the price was right.

 

[pgmatt]

I had a Prius V previously and it was fantastic at what it was designed to do. I don’t think it’s a great comparison with the LC250 because the Prius are built solely for fuel efficiency and lack in good noise insulation etc as well as being a different hybrid setup.
I would take the hybrid turbo personally as it should excel at city driving and low speed cruising around offroad while lessening the mechanical wear on the ICE and components. I am in the first ten reservations at my local dealer for a LC250 and currently have a FZJ80 . Unlike most people here I think Toyota nailed it by bringing a non bloated Land Cruiser back to North America setup to easily outfit to your use.

 

[Rednexus]

The N/A 2.5/hybrid combo in our Highlander is buttery smooth. You'll hear a little bit of N/A 4-banger noise on a morning cold start, and when passing/pulling a big hill etc, otherwise it's the quietest and smoothest vehicle I've owned (and that includes my GX). The Prius is really an "economy" car and, as others have mentioned, probably doesn't have the best sound deadening and other NVH-reducing features.

Regarding the GX - I love it - but am also not going to drop $80K on it. I use my rig, it has lots of scratches and dings. Considering that I'd still want to modify a new GX, it would be pretty easy to end up at the $90-100K mark all-in (lift, rack, wheels/tires, drawers, onboard air, etc....), which even though I could technically afford it, it's just waaaaay too much for on off-roading and a pretty terrible overall investment. I may pick one up on the secondary market in 5+ years when it's time to retire my 470; otherwise they are just too expensive for something that will get beat up.

 

[subspd]

Hybrid for sure here. Effiecency, range, and huge power inverter. Also own a Prius V, Toyota hybrids are rock solid reliable.

 

[Phillyd2]

Yeah, IF scratches and dings are a concern then buying the new GX to mod as a off road wheeler makes as much sense as buying a boxy BOF 4X4 as a daily driver and then complaining about its MPG.

For me the GX Twin Turbo over the LC 250 hybrid is not even a close call.

 

[on the rocks]

A good video thanks to the SLEE group. A bit of a closer look at the hybrid.

 

[Rednexus]

Yeah, IF scratches and dings are a concern then buying the new GX to mod as a off road wheeler makes as much sense as buying a boxy BOF 4X4 as a daily driver and then complaining about its MPG.

For me the GX Twin Turbo over the LC 250 hybrid is not even a close call.

Part of what attracted me to a GX was having an inexpensive, luxurious, reliable, V8, BOF 4x4. My GX is my daily, but with work form home, it gets few commuting miles; most of it's miles are towing our camper or going to play in the outdoors. It was a pretty awesome buy considering I paid just over $10K for it, but have put far more than that into it in upgrades. I probably wouldn't consider upgrading to a GX550 or LC250 until the secondary market price drops below $30K, since I'm such cheapskate overall.

 

[Jetboy]

A good video thanks to the SLEE group. A bit of a closer look at the hybrid.

Cool video.

The more I see on the LC250, the more I think it really is a better setup for spending time in harsher environments. A fully sealed hybrid system eliminates the alternator, which is a common failure point in harsh conditions. I'm not a huge fan of changing a stator in a UTV (had mine go out this year and it requires splitting the engine case to get to - ugh) - but there's no denying that if you're going to put a lot of miles in harsh environments, especially deep water crossings with silty water - the lack of almost all external drive accessories should offer a big improvement in reliability. The use of an air/air intercooler tells me among other things that the charged air temps are probably pretty mild and it doesn't need a lot of cooling. I'm probably indifferent either way, but it looks like a lot of consideration was put into making this version of the T24A simple and easy to operate/repair.

I don't like the use of a vacuum based boost controller - although low complexity it's also likely to be less reliable in the long run over an electric solenoid and it also means that it's a lot less precise in boost management.

 

[Blackwatch1]

The Car Care Nut did a review on the Grand Highlander and it's 2.4 turbo hybrid. He didn't seem overly happy with it. Unless I misunderstood he says the 2.4 is just the 2.5 from the Rav4 with a few changes and a turbo stuck on.

 

[Smitty512]

Whichever I end up with will be getting an obnoxiously loud blowoff valve!
I’m unreasonably excited about the prospect.


ETA - my MPGs are gonna SUCK

 

[Jetboy]

The Car Care Nut did a review on the Grand Highlander and it's 2.4 turbo hybrid. He didn't seem overly happy with it. Unless I misunderstood he says the 2.4 is just the 2.5 from the Rav4 with a few changes and a turbo stuck on.

That's how I interpreted it as well. The A25 does look pretty similar in a lot of ways. I have no idea how much of the internals they share, but I think the general architecture is pretty similar. It's not the same as the pre-2017 2AR. I have no idea which 2.5L engines are in which cars or if they are mostly or all A25s. My guess is that the internals have a lot of small changes on the turbo version. Supposedly the truck version of the T24 has roughly 30% different parts just from the transverse mounted version, so I'd guess there are similar differences between the A25 and T24.

I'm not sure it's a bad thing. Was probably designed as a modular engine platform to handle a bunch of different configurations and NA and forced induction options. Most Toyota engines handle boost really well even if they were not intended for it. I'd have little doubt that this one will handle the boost well.

 

[Land Caesar]

That's how I interpreted it as well. The A25 does look pretty similar in a lot of ways. I have no idea how much of the internals they share, but I think the general architecture is pretty similar. It's not the same as the pre-2017 2AR. I have no idea which 2.5L engines are in which cars or if they are mostly or all A25s. My guess is that the internals have a lot of small changes on the turbo version. Supposedly the truck version of the T24 has roughly 30% different parts just from the transverse mounted version, so I'd guess there are similar differences between the A25 and T24.

I'm not sure it's a bad thing. Was probably designed as a modular engine platform to handle a bunch of different configurations and NA and forced induction options. Most Toyota engines handle boost really well even if they were not intended for it. I'd have little doubt that this one will handle the boost well.

Certainly a different tune you have regarding the 250 from…Another thread.

Anyway, Good information is insightful

I’ll have to find the 4cyl Turbo hybrid video with car care nut stating positive insightful perceptions

Slee Offroad certainly didn’t think poorly of it. They definitely know a bit more than the average guy here that regurgitates other forum babble.

 

[Land Caesar]

The N/A 2.5/hybrid combo in our Highlander is buttery smooth. You'll hear a little bit of N/A 4-banger noise on a morning cold start, and when passing/pulling a big hill etc, otherwise it's the quietest and smoothest vehicle I've owned (and that includes my GX). The Prius is really an "economy" car and, as others have mentioned, probably doesn't have the best sound deadening and other NVH-reducing features.

Regarding the GX - I love it - but am also not going to drop $80K on it. I use my rig, it has lots of scratches and dings. Considering that I'd still want to modify a new GX, it would be pretty easy to end up at the $90-100K mark all-in (lift, rack, wheels/tires, drawers, onboard air, etc....), which even though I could technically afford it, it's just waaaaay too much for on off-roading and a pretty terrible overall investment. I may pick one up on the secondary market in 5+ years when it's time to retire my 470; otherwise they are just too expensive for something that will get beat up.

I’m in the same boat

Looking about a daily driver weekend fun vehicle

Company vehicle definitely gets all the miles … so I’m not worried about that

My 2022 Sienna is spectacular!!! In almost every way. Just wish it had a turbo, as it is the sporty Awd model

If I buy the 250, I’ll keep it for a good long time. May upgrade someday to a higher trim when they make it a phev.

Yet it would be an investment to hang on to for a long time.

I don’t see need to tow much over 5k lbs

And fuel prices will rise

So I’m thinking a lot about buying this as my 4th cruiser

 

[Adam R]

Interesting video from Slee. There is a lot going on wire and tubing wise on that engine. I imagine they'll put a cover over it to clean it up a little. A cover would also keep some dust and dirt off the engine as well. Otherwise, it's interesting that they are able to do away with several of the typical accessories drives than an IC engine comes with like the alternator and belt driven AC compressor.

I'm leaning towards a 2025 variant of either the LC or GX. My wife's 100 series has served us incredibly well after 19 years and 323,000 miles with 283,000 of those miles put on the vehicle by her. It's also survived two accidents in the past 2 years and still runs like a top. It's time she gets an upgrade and we'll buy whichever version she likes best and I'll inherit the 100 to replace my 3.9L diesel Isuzu powered 80 series with compound turbo's. It's pushing 300,000 miles and Colorado isn't too keen on me registering it here now that I'm a Colorado resident. If the 2.4 Hybrid is smooth and gets anywhere near the mileage they suggest, I'll consider nudging her towards that vehicle.

On a side note, I had the chance to be carted around Israel last year in up armored 200 series LC's with the 4.5 diesel engine. Our vehicles weighed in at 10,000 lbs and absolutely hauled the mail. Our drivers drove them like sports cars and I wished we could get that engine here in the states. It was quite the powerhouse. I also got a look at a 300 series being outfitted for an up-armor package in Jordan. It was stripped down to the shell so they could get measurements for the armor package. It was a nice looking vehicle as well.

 

[Jetboy]

Certainly a different tune you have regarding the 250 from…Another thread.

Anyway, Good information is insightful

I’ll have to find the 4cyl Turbo hybrid video with car care nut stating positive insightful perceptions

Slee Offroad certainly didn’t think poorly of it. They definitely know a bit more than the average guy here that regurgitates other forum babble.

I think it'll be a well engineered and manufactured engine. It's just not enough power for certain stuff - like towing at highway speeds in the USA. It's 270hp. I'm sure it's a great 270hp engine. But it's still a 270hp engine in a 5k lb+ SUV. The trade-off for 27mpg is maybe worth it. But the hybrid isn't going to pull like a 325hp engine because it's not.

 

[Land Caesar]

I think it'll be a well engineered and manufactured engine. It's just not enough power for certain stuff - like towing at highway speeds in the USA. It's 270hp. I'm sure it's a great 270hp engine. But it's still a 270hp engine in a 5k lb+ SUV. The trade-off for 27mpg is maybe worth it. But the hybrid isn't going to pull like a 325hp engine because it's not.

Perhaps a truck like a Tundra would be the correct tool for that job

Disagree or not… the engine produces 325hp 465 ft lbs torque.

My little Sienna 2022 hybrid engine is 189 hp and 175 torque with a 4700# curb weight…. That I’ve loaded 1000 lbs onto and in…

The Hybrid Sienna with hitch receiver of hundreds of lbs had no problem pulling a 4 mile incline while showing the energy transfer on screen display of engine and duel electric motors.

So before you knock it… you should try it.

Or atleast get some real world experience

The 250 can tow up to 6000lbs

So I’m sure a 5000lbs trailer is fine

Then again, its design isn’t made to be a tow rig.

 

[on the rocks]

The 250 can tow up to 6000lbs

Be careful with this number even if accurate. I'm surprised Toyota didn't just leave the hitch off like they did in the 90's, it has to make bringing a vehicle to the market much more challenging, especially a 5 seater.
You figure they ran this number with a standard 150lb person driving and NOTHING MORE. With that said a 6000lb trailer and a generous 15% tongue weight is 900lbs payload, 12% is more standard @720lbs (I have yet to see them list a payload number). Most family's will have more than this loaded before even hooking up their trailer. To come anywhere near this and be legal, you'll be loading you gear and family all in the trailer lol. This number is likely also based on a as basic as you can get 1958 with zero options.

 

[Rednexus]

The 6,000# rating is similar to the 6,500# rating on a 120/150. Meaning it can probably comortably tow a 4,000# trailer, and be a chore to tow much more with other than in a pinch. The early 120's only had 235 HP with this tow rating. Power should really not be an issue, just don't expect to win any races towing with it.

Many 120/150 platform folks do tow 5,000-6,000# trailers all of the time. I tow a 4,000# (loaded) low-profile camping trailer with a family of 4 and bikes on the roof rack. It does just fine and we've done multiple 700 mile days with it. I personally think that 5,000#+ would be a exhausting to tow with a smaller, short-wheelbase SUV.

 

[Navyator]

Then again, its design isn’t made to be a tow rig.

I'm always surprise how much talk of towing there is on this forum. Obviously it's important to a good contingent of folks here, but I don't know that I've ever seen an 80 or 100 series on the road towing anything of serious weight. Actually, I almost only see trucks exclusively towing larger trailers, so I'm somewhat surprised to hear that tow rating is a significant factor for anyone considering this size SUV in the first place. I guess I feel "if you want to tow, get a full size truck and stop talking about the LC 250 / GX". It'd be like me being upset it's 0-60 time isn't under 5 seconds... well, that's not what it's intended for.

You can criticize anything on personal preference, but I think a lot of these threads fail to discuss is "how will it meet the demands for which it is intended" vice just complaining it's not something else. It outperforms the Bronco, Wrang/Glad/Cherokee, and 4 Runner in towing which are some main competitors to the LC Prado. Why are we upset about these numbers again?