Front Flex? (1 Viewer)

[Nay]

Why is the price of the arms absurd. Have you tried to actually get a set made and tested? I am amazed that people first reaction to something that is expensive is that it is absurd. They probably cost a pretty penny to make.

Now you can say that they are not worth it for the average wheeler, that is fine, but unless you can produce those for significantly less, I would say that the price is not out of line. This is from someone that already makes arms and knows what is involved.

I know this wasn't directed at me per se, but my point wasn't that the arms cost too much, i.e. they should be $300, it was that I am not dropping that kind of coin, at least not right now.

When I figured $750, that was taking into account that we have a very favorable exchange rate to the Australian dollar, but if they are $1,400 AU$ we are probably looking at close to a grand shipped to here.

The fact that this setup is bolt on is pretty damn cool - if in fact road manners are unaffected I think it will prove to be worth the spend for a lot of people.

I want to see what Heath can do with the stock arms - this could be fabricated for maybe a couple hundred bucks even if you can't do it yourself.

 

[Nay]

Is it a dumb question to ask why the joint on the frame wouldn't be a JJ or RE style joint to allow for the necessary rotation of the LCA?

Chris

You're still missing an understanding of how the principle bind occurs with the 80 series arms. It is not a limitation on twist/rotation.

When the axle articulates the droop side will pull back and the compression side will move forward in the arc of the radius of the radius arms (hence the name ).

For the axle to move off of perpendicular, the bushings have to compress front to rear to allow this motion. Because the bushings are on the same plane under the axle and there are four small bushings designed for limited movement in the first place (love that good solid front axle handling on the 80) the system is working against itself, side to side. There is simply so little deflection movement available that the function of bushing rotation on the frame end never really occurs.

You could replace the frame side rubber of the 80 arms with a johnny joint, and it would add exactly zero flex to the system (that bushing can already twist just fine - just like your rear link bushings) although I bet handling would improve a bit.

What the SE arms are in effect doing is creating a 3 link function in the "lower" mount of the arms with a single upper mount to retain four mounts to the axle for safety and stability under torque.

This is halfway to a y-link radius arm setup that maybe has the stability advantage of the stock setup with the flex advantage of the y-link.

 

[Nay]

Ok, this is interesting. These two pics of the modified arm at full flex on a ramp appear to show that the arm can hit the tierod on both ends of stuff/droop. Not good to have that has the limiting factor.

It would seem that this is a potential significant compromise for anybody looking for a long travel suspension given the 80 in the pics is only on a 3" lift with "OME 3" shocks".

 

[cruiserruf]

Ok, this is interesting. These two pics of the modified arm at full flex on a ramp appear to show that the arm can hit the tierod on both ends of stuff/droop. Not good to have that has the limiting factor.

i was just thinking about that. looks like the tie rod would easily come into contact with the arms.

 

[CruiserDave]

Why is the price of the arms absurd. Have you tried to actually get a set made and tested? I am amazed that people first reaction to something that is expensive is that it is absurd. They probably cost a pretty penny to make.

Now you can say that they are not worth it for the average wheeler, that is fine, but unless you can produce those for significantly less, I would say that the price is not out of line. This is from someone that already makes arms and knows what is involved.

I didn't mean to offend you or anyone else, but to me they are over priced. Just look at those shocks you posted, $400 each in my opinion is NOT out of line for those. Much more complicated to design, make etc. Those arms while very nice and look to function well could not take as much time and money to mfg as those shocks yet they cost only $400 or so less. Now I know that these arms are a specialty item and won't be mass produced so the price will be higher but still $1200? for two arms is overpriced. If I can buy a complete AR rifle for $1000 you can't tell me those arms cost so much to make that they have to charge over $1000 to make a profit. I just can't see it sorry.

 

[kidglove13]

I think that the top part of the left arm needs to be modified and mounted higher on the axle to give better clearance of the tie rod.

 

[silverhorse]

I saw an 80 somewhere with Rubicon express radius arms. I think that would work well. Anybody got a link to that? Could have been here or maybe Pirate?

 

[kidglove13]

IIRC that was someone from here.
I still like walking eagle's idea of modding stock arms, much cheaper to do and it does not matter much if they do not work either.

 

[Walking Eagle]

I saw an 80 somewhere with Rubicon express radius arms. I think that would work well. Anybody got a link to that? Could have been here or maybe Pirate?

it was here, and yes it worked well, search for coil over - I believe that was the topic as that's what he used for shocks/springs.

That is actually what I've been leaning toward, but considering the small $ investment if I can use stock arms and steel that I already have and the 100% reversability of the mod, I might try a knock off of the SE design.

 

[Walking Eagle]

Yes, I missed that phantom assumptions boat on you making up a set of plates

by phantom assumptions I assume you mean step 5 - make plates post 64

Funny thing is I was just looking at it (I started my front end rebuild two hours ago and just came in for a slice and a breath) - and my biggest concern looking at it is the tie rod. The second biggest is the sway bar. They photos you're showing don't have a swaybar so I guess that's how they got around that issue, though might be able to get around it on my taller lift and flatter arms (remember, I'm the odd duck w/ dropped arm mounts) by not dropping the swaybar and putting links on the end. but, my hands were full of grease, and my priority was still on getting everything apart, now clean, paint, grease, reassemble, and while I'm running to the part store for brake pads, I'll charge the camera and take some reference shots

 

[Nay]

by phantom assumptions I assume you mean step 5 - make plates post 64

Funny thing is I was just looking at it (I started my front end rebuild two hours ago and just came in for a slice and a breath) - and my biggest concern looking at it is the tie rod. The second biggest is the sway bar. They photos you're showing don't have a swaybar so I guess that's how they got around that issue, though might be able to get around it on my taller lift and flatter arms (remember, I'm the odd duck w/ dropped arm mounts) by not dropping the swaybar and putting links on the end. but, my hands were full of grease, and my priority was still on getting everything apart, now clean, paint, grease, reassemble, and while I'm running to the part store for brake pads, I'll charge the camera and take some reference shots

Ok, you got me

I also asked SE about caster correction for the 4" lift and indicated that I run a DC shaft already, and in the response they asked me "what's a DC driveshaft?".

I don't think this can work with stock arms because the tierod is close to contact due to caster correction at static height, and the SE arms are angled below it to accomodate the extra flex.

But it would clearly be a hell of a leap of faith to buy those arms and hope that they both correct properly for caster for a DC shaft and have clearance for the new flex.

I'm on mode on this one.

 

[akarilo]

6 pages and counting in a couple of days; WOW. This has eclipsed my "Turbo 3FE" thread without anybody having to lift a finger (except typing). Web Wheeling at its best. You've got to love it

 

[ravencr]

I guess I'll install the Slee 6" lift and do some experimentation myself. I'm still having a hard time visually the problems to increase travel, but I'm thick headed.

Chris

 

[Nay]

I guess I'll install the Slee 6" lift and do some experimentation myself. I'm still having a hard time visually the problems to increase travel, but I'm thick headed.

Chris

Think of being able to stand in front of the axle and grab it by the hubs with your hands. Now try to rotate one side forward towards you and one side away from you while the radius arms remain fixed at the frame end. Do you see why two small bushings mounted on a horizontal plane on each side of the axle will almost absolutely prevent this movement? They have to squish to allow this movement, and there is very little bushing to move.

It is similar to running a highly arched leaf spring - the compression side has to force the axle back (and the shackle extends to allow this) while the droop side has to come forward. The only way this fore/aft rotation of the axle can occur is if the spring pack bushings will compress to allow this, or the springs are loose enough to allow the pack itself to bend (in which case be ready to buy a lot of new springs).

Flex your front end up now - the bigger lift is only going to make it worse because the entire motion of the radius arms is below horizontal.

 

[Waggoner5]

The great thing about our suspension in general is that no matter how many ideas and re-engineer'd parts that come up, the general outcome is always the same. Yea it flexes a little more but it didnt get me any further down or up the trail. I have seen an 80 go all the way to the top of the ramp, but I wouldn't want to wheel it, or for that matter really wouldn't want to drive it on the street. Not trying to discourage anyone, but front flex on an 80 is very over rated.

 

[akarilo]

Question: Probably for Nay. Will the Aussie arms actually provide more flex than the simple hitch pin mod? After all you are completely eliminating one mounting point on the driver's side. After reading your "in-depth" descriptions of the axle's rotation path and all, seems they would be of no additional value. I may have missed it all together though.

 

[Nay]

Question: Probably for Nay. Will the Aussie arms actually provide more flex than the simple hitch pin mod? After all you are completely eliminating one mounting point on the driver's side. After reading your "in-depth" descriptions of the axle's rotation path and all, seems they would be of no additional value. I may have missed it all together though.

Offroad 80's • View topic - SuperFlex radius arms for cruisers - at last!

This link posted earlier has a pic of the stock setup, a pic with one bolt removed (the hitch pin mod) and then pics of the modified arm setup, so you can see the differences.

There should not be more flex in any material way than just pulling one bolt, because you are accomplishing the same thing. What the SE arm gives you is the benefit of moving a front mount while retaining four links.

The arms could also be narrower...but I doubt it is anything you'd notice on the trail.

I've never been comfortable with the idea of only one bolt locating the axle to the frame, but if you reinforced the mount there is really no reason for it to be an issue.

 

[sleeoffroad]

The SE arms allow the axle to rotate around the axle center. There are two forces that stop the axle from flexing. There is the fore and aft movement that Nay is talking about, but also a twist/ rotate around the axle center. If you take three pencils and you glue them together like the two arms with the axle 90 degree to that. Now try to move the one arm down, and the other up. The rotational bind around the center is more than the fore and aft. Essentially the arms is trying to twist the axle like a candy cane. Just not going to happen. Only moves as much as the bushings allow.

That is why the tierod in the SW arm pictures moves up and down. The axle is essentially held in place for the rotational movement in just one place (the two bushings of the stock looking arm).

PS, Nay the comment re: price was not directed at you. Making those arms in small amounts in a machine shop is very time consuming and expensive.

 

[Walking Eagle]

I don't think this can work with stock arms because the tierod is close to contact due to caster correction at static height, and the SE arms are angled below it to accomodate the extra flex.
.

Got no caster correction - at least no bushing, or plates, I'm 'special'

 

[Walking Eagle]

6 pages and counting in a couple of days; WOW. This has eclipsed my "Turbo 3FE" thread without anybody having to lift a finger (except typing). Web Wheeling at its best. You've got to love it

Every thread where soemone is trying to get more flex, is gonna get big - except the one with the Y link radius arms from a heap - I think that was due to the coil over title. (edit - it's 8 pages too, but it's 5 good pages of real stuff!)

I at least take web willing into solid modling now that I have a progra