Flexing the 3 link (3 Viewers)

[ToyRoverlander]

Ok, here's the screenshot for the radius arm front end of an LC80, 6" slee lift coils.

Working on the rear now so will post up in a short while.

One thing that's immediately obvious is that the roll axis angle is huge and must be a big contributing factor to poor handling.

 

[ToyRoverlander]

Rear end:

 

[Booger weldz]

Anyone see any errors? Ive messed up pluggin numbers multiple times and toyrover and i did this via satellite traversing 7500 miles

Huge thanks to toyrover for helping

 

[ToyRoverlander]

Just like that peace of cake. Numbers look terrible!

 

[TheBigBoy]

Ha ha, I think booger is looking for an arguement. The link calculators aren't the be all and end all. They are a "guide only" and many small things you can do that have great affect in real life, but doesn't show up. As I'm sure 4WU can attest too also.

 

[ToyRoverlander]

As I'm not looking for an argument, but looking for as much info and tech as possible, I like to ask what those small things you mention might be? Springs, shock(valving) or suspension geometry?


Would be nice to keep this topic flame free. It's not a pissing match, we want tech!

 

[TheBigBoy]

The problem is toyoverlander, people will argue until they are blue in the face about something, that they don't exactly understand completely. And it's a hell of a time if you try to explain it. 1 question leads to 20 more etc etc. And I just don't have time or patience for it anymore. So I congratulate those who are willing to learn and go all the way. Not just some of it.

 

[TheBigBoy]

Ps. Your roll axis runs from front to rear panhard.

 

[Booger weldz]

Ps. Your roll axis runs from front to rear panhard.

Whole vehicle roll axis, not specific front/rear suspension roll axis.

Id like you to leave this discussion and ask that with the utmost respect. Theres going to be some 80s built this summer that will further dispell your talk. I dont wanna be the guy that said, ' told you so', but you just got the math and still continue.

There is nothing here for you apparently and im not gonna continue to provide credible evidence you wont absorb.

Toyrover and i had to coordinate math across the atlantic ocean, wtf do you need to understand? Its simple, and the picture is clear(thanks to his posts).

I cant request any harder. Please take you fancy forks and GTFO of this thread. It has evolved to math because you called bull****. Well, now the math is bs according to you. Whats next??

 

[TheBigBoy]

Bah ha ha.... ^^^ I give you example A.

 

[maxamillion2345]

Bah ha ha.... ^^^ I give you example A.

Your posts are pretty

...Laughable

 

[TheBigBoy]

What eveeerrrrr... This is the part where I just think (dumb know it all yanks) and walk away.

 

[maxamillion2345]

What eveeerrrrr... This is the part where I just think (dumb know it all yanks) and walk away.

Haven't you been doing exactly that throughout this thread?

 

[scottryana]

Everyone is waiting for you to walkaway, at least follow through with that part.

 

[Delancy]

Please take you fancy forks

Don't know how to make it any more clear, but I have the fancy forks, not BigBoy.

A question, fancy fork related, but merely out of curiosity.

If inputting into a calculator, how is the DS arm considered, since the measurements from the frame to the axle are identical in length, with 4" of vertical separation between the joints?

Others...

I noticed the GVW is inputted into the first spreadsheet. Does weight bias, front to rear, come into play?

How does AWD factor into over/under steer?

 

[Roc Doc]

If i may, your 3 link has lots of room for improvement. It was built in a weekend while two guys drank beer and sarcastically joked at the Ih8mud posts while building bumpers.

If i could lay hands on that truck again it would shine further.

You can always bump nitrogen pressure if the 2.5s are cavitating.

I wish you would stay in this thread. Im all ears on the spring rate and dampening thing. You are one of the few who can give real world feedback on all of this and your experience is worth its weight in platninum

I specifically bought this rig because I looked in my garage after I sold my tube chassis car, and realized I didn't have anything to work on, no projects. And my buddies that I was rockcrawling with sold off their buggies/jeeps/Toyota's and so we decided we wanted backroader/expo type rigs, viola, what better platform than the 80! I knew it wasn't finished, but the collection of hard parts was impressive enough for me to pull the trigger, and I've had a blast out on the Mojave Road, and various trails here in SoNev.

Anyfawkingway, I always want more performance, so I'll be addressing the suspension, doing an LSX swap and fitting it with an awning, and other such stuff for camping...but I want to be able to keep up with my buddy in his Raptor, or at least the guy in the Power Wagon. I can out crawl both of them by a large margin, but they leave me in the dust on the fwy or high speed roads, which is fine for now, but I know I can build it to do all those things.

The Bilsteins are not cavatating, they just don't have enough compression damping for the spring rate, and with no bumps I can blow through the travel at speed and stuff a tire hard into the inner fender well. Also with the reduced caster, it's kinda twitchy at speed, so I've got to be on my toes.

When EZ Rick was building the U4 car he has now, (he built three of them actually), he said he wanted 7*+ of caster, so it would go straight, and damn is that car stable at speed, real speed, the kind that makes you grin and pray at the same time. I don't know if I need that much, and I haven't measured it, but I'm guessing another 3* or so would really help me out....I'm working on it.

And as far as my feedback goes, I've been all ears when I've had the opportunity to learn from guys like Rick or Wayne. I'm not inventing nothing, just trying to let the others pay for their mistakes with THEIR wallets, so I don't have to.

Oh, and you can lay hands on it anytime you want, but no scrotums or other body parts.

 

[Booger weldz]

Awd is something to discuss. If you look at the 80 brackets compared to the minitruck stuff front stuff from 4wu you will see a slightly lower axle end and taller frame side. This either speaks higher antidive for street braking or the fact that a 6" lifted 80 on 37s sits at 22"(frame) vs the equivalent minitruck @ 25.

Ive poked at brian about this, but im not gonna be a hornet in his trade secrets.

As for the offset radius arm connections, i would plug both sides numbers and you will see a miniscul change.

The real work is at the frame end. I predicted 8 degrees of oversteer and 130% AS, just from looking at my truck and judging it from previous things ive built. In the end it was 17 degrees and 170%, by math.

Im here to learn, just like everyone. No time for snotty comments from bigboy about whos smarter. Id rather be an idiot with a truck i can take ANYWHeRE than a smart guy with a....

This thread is evolving from total chaos(credit to toyrover) and i hope we venture forward.

Don't know how to make it any more clear, but I have the fancy forks, not BigBoy.

A question, fancy fork related, but merely out of curiosity.

If inputting into a calculator, how is the DS arm considered, since the measurements from the frame to the axle are identical in length, with 4" of vertical separation between the joints?

Others...

I noticed the GVW is inputted into the first spreadsheet. Does weight bias, front to rear, come into play?

How does AWD factor into over/under steer?

 

[Booger weldz]

Roc doc: post some front end pics, id like to address the panhard axle mount w the coilovers. My axle isnt stock so i cant relate. You need a taller panhard and highsteer to compliment the 3link.

 

[Roc Doc]

Roc doc: post some front end pics, id like to address the panhard axle mount w the coilovers. My axle isnt stock so i cant relate. You need a taller panhard and highsteer to compliment the 3link.

OK, maybe tomorrow. It's Africa hot here now.

I've talked to Billybob about his knuckles and there is no other option IMO. Will eventually go to hydro assist and high steer with RCV axles, and air bumps. Just got to come up with the spendolies to gather the parts.

 

[Delancy]

Sure everyone's seen this, since it's all over the web, but linking. It's the only pic the shows another question, so figured on giving credit to the article I robbed from.

http://www.4x4review.com/toyota-fj80-land-cruiser-3-link-front-suspension-w-panhard/

It can be picked apart, but the guy got off his ass and did something beyond web fabricating, so I'll leave be, BUT

Check out the direction of the DS rear tire in this pic.

To me, this rear begs as much attention as the front, and for the front.

If the upper rear link were moved forward, it shouldn't rotate the axle like it is in the first pic.