Flexing the 3 link (10 Viewers)

[Delancy]

Im horrible at build threads so I just work at my own pace and post random pics on the interweb.

Junking up other threads, posting tidbits, only to disappear, never fulfilling obligations to web wheelers worldwide.



Details, man. Details.

I junked my 80 body and couldnt part with the drivetrain as it was still decent.

It's shortening it that concerns me.

Had planned to swap the 1fz into my 40, but I really want the newer frame and stock rear suspension as well.

I'm committed to the 1FZ, but uncertain which project a "built" one will power, be it the PP80, Pig, FZJ50, or FZJ70.

So the 80, sans body, is sitting in my shop while I dream up some kind of 43 or 45 creation to put on top of it.

FZJ 47.

I basically collected a bunch of parts and motors(1uz's) over the past couple of years and need to do something with it all.

1UZs are bad ass, as are their successor.

I want to build, just for the experience, and will someday.

The Mayhem Metal Works subframe is just an idea for myself. I would never be making a kit to mass produce.

More for booger and 4WU.

Booger seems to forget that not everyone fabs base plates for high rise buildings that abut the San Andreas fault.

I can weld structural steel, but a welder I'm not.

I can fab frames on paper and in a shop, but a suspension fabricator I'm not.

I know jack chit about automotive, can't even bend the tube bumper for the rear of my own 80, and no local resources will, either.

That doesn't negate interest, desire, and willingness to pay for others experience, learning in the process, therefore a "kit" like what MM has produced for the minis, is marketable....that being, along with profits derived, something I do profess a smidgen of knowledge of.

That's the approach that will separate a successful business endeavor, from selling a few kits, because there are more folks that can't fab but have long arms, than can.

 

[Booger weldz]

A late night in moab around a campfire with several empty beer cans erik biblehiemer and i surmised the funny handling on my one ton tacoma was a result of oversteer.

The truck handled a thousand times better than my current 6"/4" slee coiled 80, however, thats like comparing constipation to diarehea. They both suck, ones just annoyingly messy.

My next tacoma addressed these issues. The lower links were severely triangulated in an effort to bring that end of the roll axis down to panhard centerline height(or slightly lower).

The lower links(or radius arms) define one end of the suspensions pivot point on the chassis. If you were to draw an imaginery line along them(side view) from the axle up toward the chassis, this vector yields a point(height), roll center.

The other end of this(the other roll center) is panhard centerline height.

With straight lower links(or radius arms) that vector from the axle travels infinitely and ANY angle on them causes oversteer. Flat or converging them resolves this issue as the vector now has a defined height or(in the top view) convergence between the two.

Raising the panhard towards this height removes oversteer. Oversteer on a big top heavy station wagon is exagerated by body roll and combined, they feel like a wandering whale traveling down the highway. Its a mess.

Raising the panhard is the simplest solution for 'us'. It requires a highsteer draglink and some creativity around the coil spring mounts.

The 4wu parts do both. Im not familiar with the recent 80 brackets, but the minitruck stuff has both a tall pan hard mount(complimenting high steer) and flat/slightly triangulated lower links.

The flat/triangulated lowers also potentially produce excellent antisquat numbers in the rear. It will be argued, but some of that flat/triangulation is actually a bad thing in front as you fall into brake dive with low antisquat(antidive).

Theres a little window for all of these
parameters to play in best. Thats why the generic statement that 3 links handle like s*** has merit. I find it hard to believe any 3 linked 80 ive seen on here handles worse than the stock suspension, once lifted. But

 

[Booger weldz]

Thats why were all here discussing this.

Bolting a fancy radius arm with more flex potential is fine if you want to do the rti ramp thing at your local club gathering. It works fine for running thru jungle trails at hollister, but wont play any better than the stock stuff at speed. If they were in the rear of the truck they would be a disaster as the super high antisquat(unless mounted flat) would do little in propelling the vehicle. We have lots of this in the stock 4link/panhard, but thats a different thread...

 

[Booger weldz]

[QUOTE="Delancy, post:


Booger seems to forget that not everyone fabs base plates for high rise

buildings that abut the San Andreas faultn.[/QUOTE]

Noted. I will own that and apologize

 

[Booger weldz]

What i need is, someone familiar with the triaged link calculator spreadsheets. Imnstuck on a phone so i cant plug the #s, but will gladly provide the measurements off my truck to be documented for the sake of developing this disscussion with facts vs thoughts.

My thoughts arent worth a s*** if there isnt plausible data to back them. Furthermore, some australian guy with fancy radius arms needs a little lesson from a 'yankee with no grasp of physics'

 

[Delancy]

Noted. I will own that and apologize

You must've contracted something from a cougar bite....

Doesn't beg an apology and I stated out of respect for the skill set, not to belittle.

If anything, it's an open admission of my own shortcomings.

I am "bolt on", hear me roar.

Now, go ask for your balls back. She's probably got them stashed with her dentures.

 

[Delancy]

Furthermore, some australian guy with fancy radius arms needs a little lesson from a 'yankee with no grasp of physics'

I'm redneck, Oklahoman, not Australian, if directed at me.

If it's Mark you're pointing to, let me clear this up.

He doesn't run SE arms, has no vested interest in SE the company, and is not pimping their s***.

He did run the arms, at some point, but has since opted to rotate the OE arms to the top of the housing, as depicted and described in other threads.

Now, keep in mind, Australia isn't the Wild West one would think when it comes to modifying vehicles, as most that are DD have to go through an inspection process, if modified from stock, with lift limitations and all kinds of other criteria that have to be met.

Considering the ratio of 20:1 Australian 80s to US explains why most products originate there, so some degree of engineering was involved.

While typing this, a yoga pant clad woman managed to bounce her Rav 4 front bumper off the rear PS Krawler.

Hopefully this will get interesting.

Edited: it didn't.

She said sorry, then carried on into the store.

 

[Booger weldz]

Im 'new' to ih8mud and dont know who 'mark' is, but im jokingly poking at 'thebigboy'.

You good w the link calculator? I can text you measurements and also have access to a bone stock lx450 so we can see what is so very wrong once lifted.

 

[Booger weldz]

Now, keep in mind, Australia isn't the Wild West one would think when it comes to modifying vehicles, as most that are DD have to go through an inspection process, if modified from stock, with lift limitations and all kinds of other criteria that have to be

ACH]

Thats fine, but i live in california, where you can crusify a vehicle with a torch and a welder and as long as it passes smog every two years, nobody cares

 

[Delancy]

Im 'new' to ih8mud and dont know who 'mark' is, but im jokingly poking at 'thebigboy'.

Mark=BigBoy.

You good w the link calculator?

Worked at a meat market as a wee lad, if that counts.

I can learn anything.

I can text you measurements and also have access to a bone stock lx450 so we can see what is so very wrong once lifted.

Send them on.

Everything technical I've absorbed came from billavista, so in a matter of hours, I'll have it figured out.

Thats fine, but i live in california, where you can crusify a vehicle with a torch and a welder and as long as it passes smog every two years, nobody cares

Just trying to explain the mindset or mentality behind.

Mark is a good guy, regardless the perception on the screen of an iPhone, and does know something about.

I don't know who's piddly stream casts further, nor do I care, but there may be something that all could away from, if the discussion were to focus on the on one aspect and substantiated:

Why does the lifted 80 drive like chit?

 

[Booger weldz]

Okay, mark= bigboy.

I had to digress back to pirate once he started discussing spring rate affect during braking when mounted offset
on the axle. It was a complete oxymoron and gave him a D- on report card for technical disscussions of suspension.

 

[Booger weldz]

Load up the link calc if you will. I can PM you my cell and we can work this out together via text and you can share the data here. It may take a few tries as some of the X,y,z coordinates are ambiguous on a radius arm, but we can sort it out

 

[4WheelUnderground]

Just an fyi I have a sub frame for the mini's that's very structural and plan on mimicking it on the 80's. It's a tubular steel design that adds rigidity to the chassis and protection.

 

[ToyRoverlander]

Been following this thread with big interest as I've been reading up on suspension tech for ages and like to think I have a fair understanding of it all. Would you mind posting up those numbers, or PM them whatever you prefer, so I can have a look at them as well in the calculator?

Interuption over, please continue

 

[Booger weldz]

Got time? Load up the triaged calculator so we can plot numbers on the factory suspension once lifted.

Just an fyi I have a sub frame for the mini's that's very structural and plan on mimicking it on the 80's.

Just an fyi I have a sub frame for the mini's that's very structural and plan on mimicking it on the 80's.

 

[Booger weldz]

I have a cell phone and a tape measure. Im youre huckleberry

Been following this thread with big interest as I've been reading up on suspension tech for ages and like to think I have a fair understanding of it all. Would you mind posting up those numbers, or PM them whatever you prefer, so I can have a look at them as well in the calculator?

Interuption over, please continue

 

[ToyRoverlander]

Thanks!
I do live overseas, got whatsapp?

 

[Booger weldz]

Deleted*Please only text me if you want fzj80 suspension measurements on 36" iroks and 6" slee coils and plan to plug it into the link calc

Load up the calculator spreadsheet and text me each time you click on a cell and ill give you the measurement required.

 

[ToyRoverlander]

text sent, I think....

 

[Booger weldz]

text sent, I think....

Yes. Received, replied, repeat. Thx!