Flexing the 3 link (12 Viewers)

[4WheelUnderground]

Lowering the vehicle is fine but with the result of lessing up travel when full sheet metal is existing. Lengthing link arms weekens the arm and also results less ground clearance.
And I have done stress testing. That’s why Im still here.

 

[4WheelUnderground]

Valour?
Yes you are putting more load on components by moving the lower above axle center line. Yes. But that’s why some many of my designs incorporate other parts of the suspension to minimize stress points and wrap 180*’s around round tube when ever possible. Its also why they build from .25 plate not .23 like some of my competition. I understand there is more stress. But I also understand that you’ll never get geometry better than what I’ve provided. Its physically not possible.

 

[4WheelUnderground]

Excuse me. Its impossible with sheet metal.

 

[TheBigBoy]

And I agree. I too tuned in all the geometry for maximum crawling capabilities. And found by trial and error what worked. This led me to believe link calculators are a guide only. By mixing it up a little it improved greatly. When all I was really doing, was trying to get a base line for data.

 

[TheBigBoy]

It's hard working in with factory chassis when compared to a custom build project. And why it's almost impossible sometime for a factory chassi to compete.

Radius arm vs link etc is old. Some people look at it from both ends. *what do I need to do to get my 80 to flex more... Or *how do I get my link suspension to have better road manners.

After building testing for a very long time. The set up I came up with really is the best for a daily driver that handles unbelievably well, and can max out 14" shocks in the front. It's still no competition to a full trail rig with coil overs and link suspension (when done right). But geez it holds it own against them well. Just MHO

 

[4WheelUnderground]

I am solely committed to both. I worked on my one vehicle for 5 years trying to figure out how to do just that. I now know what that takes. Im not saying it will have better road manners than a 100% stock in perfect condition factory vehicle. But there are 9 things they cant do that I can. It handles better than a vehicle on leaf springs, factory or lifted. it handles better then a lifted fj80. This is a suspension redesign no a bolt on band aid.

 

[TheBigBoy]

The superflex arms for what they are - bolt on. Is still pretty good. It does not change the roll centres from a lifted truck. Nor thrust angles etc etc. but does allow more flex for little more reduction in numbers. Again I'm not for or against. I prefer to build custom housings so I can set everything up.

 

[4WheelUnderground]

Ive told countless people this and I'll say it again. Everything I did to my truck to make it handle better in the rocks I also considered how it would handle on the street. When I took both of these terrains in mind I found my vehicle handling everything better. I am now to the point that the factory frame and sheetmetal restrain me from making it any better. Not that I could imagine it being better at this point. It unloads less than leaf springs and keeps my truck stable in all conditions that I have imagined and cant. I would not change one thing on my truck at this point. I've even found that with the high speed geometry that I now have on the truck that when I tune my shocks and springs for high speed desert that I crawl better and handle better on the street too.

 

[TheBigBoy]

Well atleast this post went somewhere. And you answered some of my concerns. I see some pictures of absolutely shocking link suspension set ups from your side of the globe. And they all swear it's the best. It was looking like another keyboard bashing and wasted post from people that just don't understand for a minute there.

 

[4WheelUnderground]

I will only combat with bantering bull crap when I am forced from ignorant posts full of stupidity derived from persons unwilling to listen to common sense or knowledge. Yours was not that case. (thank god). I think we understand each other.

 

[4WheelUnderground]

I will only combat with bantering bull crap when I am forced from ignorant posts full of stupidity derived from persons unwilling to listen to common sense or knowledge. Yours was not that case. (thank god). I think we understand each other.

That sounded really snobby. Wow! Sorry.

 

[TheBigBoy]

Indeed. My position is I see pics of suspension people/companies build and sometimes scratch my head and have grave concerns. And I'm not even looking very indepth or hard. Hundreds of them. I never said anything about your suspension until now because frankly I don't need the arguments although I know I'm correct. And I ment no disrespect and apologise for putting you in the same catergory as them. If you've run all numbers and engineered it, then great work... it's on your shoulders.

 

[4WheelUnderground]

Indeed. My position is I see pics of suspension people/companies build and sometimes scratch my head and have grave concerns. And I'm not even looking very indepth or hard. Hundreds of them. I never said anything about your suspension until now because frankly I don't need the arguments although I know I'm correct. And I ment no disrespect and apologise for putting you in the same catergory as them. If you've run all numbers and engineered it, then great work... it's on your shoulders.

Your general concerns are warranted to a degree, not all of your concerns are necessary. There are opposing forces that I believe you are not considering, but I do understand your initial concern. If you have concerns like you do/did about something like this please don't bash a company unless there have been complaints made by those that have personally run said product. I understand trying to warn people from a bad experience before they have to experience it first hand. But in a case such as this, there would be people loudly stating that the design is flawed in some way or another and that is simply not that case. "NO ONE" has any complaints that I've been told of regarding the durability or performance of my designs. And if there were I promise you and the entire public that I will take care of and resolve any and all design issues associated with the current design if such a case arises. I am not here to make a quick buck and disappear in to the night, this is long term for me. With that said everyone has their own idea of what is correct and what is wrong. Im sure I can find numerous design flaws in 100% of the builds out there. But I don't comment on things I've not been told by people that have not run that product. I use to, when I was less involved and lacked experience but I don't now and as much as I have to bite my tongue its been well worth the self discipline.

Please! don't light a fire under my butt regarding structural integrity or geometry design. I am heavily schooled in both. If there is an issue I will resolve it.

 

[TheBigBoy]

I have considered the countering leverage forces at certain times. The concerns from mearly looking a picture is warranted. I have not spoken to you. As I mentioned, I put you in the same catergory as some others without looking deeper, which I have apologised for. You would have exactly the same points if you where me looking at just a picture.

 

[4WheelUnderground]

Well actually that's the part I disagree on. If I were only slightly educated I would have concerns. Just looking at pictures and having the concerns you voiced is what begged me to say something. And its the voiced part I emphasize. But we are talking in circles now and its becoming pointless and leaning towards who's got the last word. We've had good tech and discussion so lets leave it there and speak more of specifics when it become relevant to this thread. Good day. Im going to start the BBQ and drink a few more beers. Cheers!

 

[Booger weldz]

Wow.

Im going to again ask bigboy where the imaginery forces are that allow the axle to twist on a 3 link as you describe?? Just because it ariculates without binding, doesnt in anyway make it loose under acceleration or braking.

Is this what youre saying? Cause i live in the soccer mom and mall shopping world all week and never killed
anyone.

I daily drive my stuff. Not just here to preach theories and ideas...Although i welcome that discussion if it will help you understand things and dispell any 'theories' based on bench racing.

 

[scottryana]

The axle can not twist unless you break the axle tubes at the center section or break the upper link mount off.

The small amount of deflection there might be would be in the bushings.

Is it possible that one side will see higher compression forces during emergency breaking? Sure if your upper link is offset far to the outside and not angled from the inside of the frame. But even that would mean that the frame itself would have to twist up. Think about it, the cross members tie the sides of the frame together they don't allow one frame member to flex down and exert force without pulling the other side with it... Now tie the front of the frame together with a solid bumper, tie the middle of the frame together with a 3/8" thick skid plate and it becomes even less likely.

 

[TheBigBoy]

I don't mind having a discussion with someone who understands simple geometry and forces booger. I've built and tested this stuff, so it's all first hand knowledge and not theories. It is yourself who needs help understanding. But I don't feel like wasting my time if your hell bent on argueing.

 

[TheBigBoy]

I know some of you will have a hard time understanding it. And why I mentioned first up for people to go and remove 1 of your front radius arm bolts. If your theory is correct Scott then it should still brake evenly.

 

[Douglas S]

I don't mind having a discussion with someone who understands simple geometry and forces booger. I've built and tested this stuff, so it's all first hand knowledge and not theories. It is yourself who needs help understanding. But I don't feel like wasting my time if your hell bent on argueing.

I'm curious, did you run bushings in all the links on the 3-link you built?