Engine Blew on 96' GG80 need help for California Compliant LS Swap

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SoCal80series

SoCal80series

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Apr 29, 2019
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On a trip back from Prescott, Arizona the engine on the Goose Gear 80 blew. o_O I've been searching the mud forums on LS swaps (as well as others), but most seem dated. With the laws in California constantly changing I thought I would seek some fresh advice on the topic. My first thought was to put the LS3 e-rod CARB compliant long-block motor in but found it is only certified pre OBD II (95' and before). Looking at the BAR website the requirements are vague. The motor has to come from a donor car that is the same model year or newer and emit less smog than the motor it is replacing. It also must come from the class of vehicle.

What information I am looking for is what LS motor should I look to use in it and what cars or trucks contain this engine? I want this motor to get certified by the referee in California. I am not looking for a motor with massive power. Something in the 300 - 400+ hp range would be perfect. I would also consider the Cummins 2.8, if anyone has gotten it certified in California. Other ideas outside of these platforms are welcome, too. I am starting the journey on this project and all mud help is welcome. Thank you ahead of time to all of you who give advice.

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I would say a 2003 to 2006 5.3 from a 1500 silverado or Tahoe should work. Some 1500 yukons came with a 6.0 so that might work. Talk to your dmv referee first. Stick with the same referee during the whole process. That's what I've picked up. I would probably even record what the referee says. Tell him your recording it for reference. It will also keep him from changing his story I would think.
 
I'm far from knowledgeable on the topic, but I'll just chime in to say I'd at least research swapping to a 6l80 or 8l90 to see if there are any extra MPG's to be found. Does CARB care which transmission you use?
 
Heckraiser said:
I'm far from knowledgeable on the topic, but I'll just chime in to say I'd at least research swapping to a 6l80 or 8l90 to see if there are any extra MPG's to be found. Does CARB care which transmission you use?
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From what I know the transmission must be one that was originally mated to engine. If the transmission was never mated to the engine in any configuration then it cannot be used.
 
SoCal80series said:
From what I know the transmission must be one that was originally mated to engine. If the transmission was never mated to the engine in any configuration then it cannot be used.
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Diesel really isn’t an option for California, unless you install one of the Grand Cherokee diesels in the rig. A donor engine must come from a car or SUV. It might be easier to choose a transmission and find a suitable engine/tranny combo.

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I would be talking to and making friends with the referee guy. He should be the most knowledgable person as to what can and can't be used.

Why not just throw in a new 1fz-fe short block with wits end turbo?
 
leonard_nemoy said:
I would be talking to and making friends with the referee guy. He should be the most knowledgable person as to what can and can't be used.

Why not just throw in a new 1fz-fe short block with wits end turbo?
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It’s not CARB certified. I’m not sure where Joey is on the process, but it’s still not certified. @landtank ’s supercharger shows the most promise as its the most easiest to be uninstalled.
 
Like others have said, and if you REALLY do want to try this, I would get very close and comfy with your local CARB referee and document the hell outta what he tells you and run everything you want to do by him BEFORE you start.

My experience is that there is no one place that you can find all the rules and regs and the more research you do, the more confused it becomes. If you stick with one CARB guy, he will essentially tell you what to do and what he wants to see. Any issues, he owns it.

It’s a 1000x easier to register in a non-smog county or out of state.....but where’s the fun in that !
 
From what I understand they now look at the checksum in the PCM and if it is not correct it is a no go.

Things like programming VATS out will throw off the checksum.

OEM exhaust manifolds are tight fit as frame is narrow. Closest fit I was able to find was Cadillac CTS-V. If you place the engine high you can just clear the collector flange above the frame rail. CATs are tight fit. I have a pair of Corvette CATs sitting around that are narrow and would be a good fit.

Trans has to be correct match from donor.

You need to get fuel level to pcm for emissions. Resistance range is not same as Toyota sender. I piggybacked a GM sender to the Toyota sender to grab the signal.

Easy place to pull fuel tank pressure is T into the filler vent line. Easier than modding the tank.

About all I can think of for now.

Don
 
SoCal80series said:
On a trip back from Prescott, Arizona the engine on the Goose Gear 80 blew. o_O I've been searching the mud forums on LS swaps (as well as others), but most seem dated. With the laws in California constantly changing I thought I would seek some fresh advice on the topic. My first thought was to put the LS3 e-rod CARB compliant long-block motor in but found it is only certified pre OBD II (95' and before). Looking at the BAR website the requirements are vague. The motor has to come from a donor car that is the same model year or newer and emit less smog than the motor it is replacing. It also must come from the class of vehicle.

What information I am looking for is what LS motor should I look to use in it and what cars or trucks contain this engine? I want this motor to get certified by the referee in California. I am not looking for a motor with massive power. Something in the 300 - 400+ hp range would be perfect. I would also consider the Cummins 2.8, if anyone has gotten it certified in California. Other ideas outside of these platforms are welcome, too. I am starting the journey on this project and all mud help is welcome. Thank you ahead of time to all of you who give advice.

View attachment 2684306
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Sorry to hear about the engine. Hate to be the bearer of more bad news, but according to Jonathan Ward, EROD swaps are no longer CARB-legal for CA 80s. Which is why TLC stopped doing them. Makes no sense from an environmental standpoint, but there you go.
 
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I thought adding the gm fuel tank sender was fairly easy. Fuel tank pressure sensor wasn't too bad either. I'm in Colorado so they aren't quite as strict, but they are still strict. Pick a model year engine that doesn't have air injection. The referee will tell you what that is. I think there are aftermarket bypass modules available if you aren't allowed to tune out vats that fool the ecu to think vats is working. I would be surprised if they can actually tell if vats is deleted-or if the ecu is modified at all. I think some of these stories are just rumor or a cranky referee. Thus find a referee first. My referee was kind of finicky, but he respected I contacted him first, then he saw I implemented his guidance. I made it clear to him I wanted to follow the rules. In the end he liked the swap. I didn't find adding the emissions really hard. It was hard to find the info on how to do it because many just do a ls swap without the emissions stuff. I've noticed that ls swaps with all the emissions included seem to increase vehicle overall value far more than swaps without emissions. 80 series with emissioned ls swaps seem to sell for twice as much or more than a non emission swap. I don't understand why California is so strict. The extra rules they have makes extremely minimal difference in emissions. Your already making the vehicle more efficient with a LS swap that has bare bones emissions. The extra rules just prompt people to make workarounds. If you want to pay to have all this done in a shop I'm sure California has plenty of engine swap shops to choose from. If your going through all this work, really try to swap in a 6.0 if they will allow it. Since they usually don't allow you to swap from a 2500 truck, you as I said will have to find a 1500 6.0 Yukon which is a little harder to find.
 
jaymar said:
Sorry to hear about the engine. Hate to be the bearer of more bad news, but according to Jonathan Ward, LS swaps are no longer CARB-legal for CA 80s. Which is why TLC stopped doing them. Makes no sense from an environmental standpoint, but there you go.
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I would contact a referee, Ward may have been referring to perhaps the erod swap is no longer legal, not necessarily that Ls swaps in general aren't legal.
 
leonard_nemoy said:
I would be talking to and making friends with the referee guy. He should be the most knowledgable person as to what can and can't be used.

Why not just throw in a new 1fz-fe short block with wits end turbo?
Click to expand...

This may be the rout I go. Are new 1fz-fe short-block’s still readily available?
 
White Stripe said:
I would contact a referee, Ward may have been referring to perhaps the erod swap is no longer legal, not necessarily that Ls swaps in general aren't legal.
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This is my plan. I talked to George from Valley Hybrids and he informed me that the LS3 e-rod is the only swap I can do. From my research it seems every referee has their own set of rules. Luckily here in So Cal there are about 10 referees within two hours of where I live. I am going to referee shop until I find one that will okay the LS3.
 
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