Driveshaft angle and lift

[DSRTRDR]

I'm not sure what you guys are talking about. What "divet."

the shackle mount itself has an indentation in the shape of the spring eye (red arrows) from the spring eye banging into it

maybe it's not as bad as on my truck it doesn't bang anymore since I got the extended shackles (which are those you see in the pic)

 

[camcruiser13]

WOW

that tranny should never hang down that low. something is definetly wrong, other than my spelling

those dont look like lifted springs to me and get some more pic of mounts and and how you have the tranny in place

 

[pdgradney]

Spring over lift.

I'm not drawn to the spring over. I believe it is beyond my capabilities to do it correctly, and I don't want to increase the amount of things that are screwed up.

Not sure what the best solution is to that drive train angle Surely you're not the 1st guy to put an NV4500 behind a 2f?

That's what I thought, but I haven't found a single write-up on this conversion. In all of my research I read post that people have them in there 40's but acquired them from PO's.

A body lift would allow you to tilt the drive train up and could help the situation, but not an elegant solution. And body lifts have their own set of challenges.

There is plenty of space between the transmission and the floor panels. The problem is the engine is hitting the firewall and wont allow the driveline to be level. The one thing that will solve this problem is cutting the tub, but I am trying to avoid that as much as possible.

To avoid vibration the pinion and drive train center-lines need to be fairly close to parallel. Looks like they are not at the moment.

No they are not...the transmission is about 2 to 3 in above parrallel with the pinion.

The rear shackle/spring situation needs to corrected regardless of the drive train issue. That has to ride like a rock!

Yes it does, and I'm really glad you guys saw that because I've been trying to improve the ride for a while. I'm learning as I go, and I know almost nothing about suspention

A double cardan (CV) joint on the drive shaft isn't going to help unless you rotate the pinion angle to be parallel to the drive shaft angle.

Can you explain more about this. Are you saying the angle can be improved by rotating the pinion?

Why a 4500 instead of a H-55 . i doubt the 2F has the guts to push that deep of overdrive. You need to reconsider the placement of the transmission or the rocks will do it for you

Yes, this is the million dollar questions. I was on an 11 month deployment and while I was gone I gave my truck to a buddy who has his own shop. I gave him the green light to work on a bunch of the things that needed to be done. Overall he is a very good mechanic, but his specific knowledge on the 40 was non-existent. In his mind he was thinking the 4500 is overall a better transmission than the h55. When he talked to AA they told him they had a bolt on kit that was made for the 40 with a 2f. He thought no problem and ordered the parts. It turned out to be a nightmare job. Nothing has gone to plan. Now we are well beyond the point of return.

In the end, the engine doesn't seem to get bagged down by the transmission. It's not a speed demon, but I'm able to get up to 70mph under 3000rpm.

Thanks again for all the help and suggestions.

 

[Cdaniel]

Click here and read the info on the tech info section
Tom Wood's Custom Drive Shafts - Tom Woods Custom Drive Shafts Custom Driveshafts Specialist
The drive line angles question is spelled out pretty well there.


So your engine can't fit in front of the firewall without hitting anymore? I'm not really familar with the stock setups, but it seems to me that it originally fit without hitting the firewall and you need to move it back so it will again.

 

[mtman86]

Click here and read the info on the tech info section


So your engine can't fit in front of the firewall without hitting anymore? I'm not really familar with the stock setups, but it seems to me that it originally fit without hitting the firewall and you need to move it back so it will again.

X2. I didn't realize that was your issue. A body lift wouldn't really solve thet problem. In the factory position, there is ample space between the block/head and the firewall. If the block location has been reconfigured, it has probably compounded your problems w/ low tail piece height.

 

[pdgradney]

So your engine can't fit in front of the firewall without hitting anymore? I'm not really familar with the stock setups, but it seems to me that it originally fit without hitting the firewall and you need to move it back so it will again.

That was the first thing we looked at. There is only a 1/2" between the fan shrouded and the engine. So, no space to move engine forward

I've added some more photos. The more I talk about this the more I'm leaning towards a 4" lift with extended shackles. Having my transmission this low is not cool at all, but I don't see any way of getting around cutting the tub .

 

[pdgradney]

photo is taken from rear end

 

[71FJ40]

Can you also post a pic from the side of the whole truck? - with the camera at the level of the running boards
There are so many concerns I need to put it in perspective to figure out what is going on

 

[DSRTRDR]

maybe a pic of the engine compartment would also help

 

[CRZR45]

x2 eng pic... If the engine hits the fire wall then either the motor mounts(front ones) were moved back or the "kit" you got had some new ones that moved the eng back. Is the tub correct for that year frame? IE not a late model tub swapped on an older pre1979 frame???

 

[pdgradney]

Here are some more pics. I really saw the problem when I took the picture of the engine compartment. I feel slightly retarded not seeing the ridiculous angle the engine has . I'm thinking new front engine mounts that lower the engine about 1 1/2" would reduce the angle tremendously. I have that much space available in the fan shroud to play with. Is this possible? I've never heard of anyone lowing the engine.

Thanks again for all your help

 

[chevurai]

Lower the engine or raise the transfer case? When I work on engine/trans locating if the engine mounts are in you can unbolt the trans mounts with a floor jack under it and play with the height and some side to side. Get out the tape measure and check clearances centering etc. and visualize the function and movement of every component. Stand back and look at it, crawl under it and then have someone else, (motor head), look at it. I'm not sure your problem is motor placement front to back. Try and look at other 40s and compare. The trans tunnel also will give you an idea in placement.
Also the transfer case being out of wack will throw off the drive shaft flange angles.

 

[Cdaniel]

That was the first thing we looked at. There is only a 1/2" between the fan shrouded and the engine. So, no space to move engine forward.....

Cut the shroud? The view from the top looks really stock, how is there not enough room to push it back forward? Did the fan spacing get changed?

Really. there is just so much wrong with that whole placement. A suspension lift isn't going to help drive train issues here. Possibly make it worse.

Dropping the engine front mount? Unless you don't ever plan on taking this rig on more than dirt roads, bad idea.

Put the whole works back where it belongs.

 

[Fast Eddy]

Now we are well beyond the point of return.

I disagree. You are at a point where you should return to the beginning. It's so f'd up you have to bite that bullet.

I feel slightly retarded not seeing the ridiculous angle the engine has . I'm thinking new front engine mounts that lower the engine about 1 1/2" would reduce the angle tremendously. I have that much space available in the fan shroud to play with. Is this possible?

Nope. I think you'll find that the oil pan doesn't have any extra room above the differential without more lift.

Presumably the problem is that the 2f -> nv4500 adapter is hitting the firewall?

I honestly think you should either swap out the engine or the tranny. A 350 will bolt to the nv4500 with no adapter and it can be installed forward to give you more driveshaft clearance at the rear.

It looks like you have a split case with an e-brake, yes? You could sell the NV4500 and the 2f adapter, pick up an h55f and make a new crossmember. Again, you eliminate the problematic adapter at the firewall. You would likely have to make the tranny tunnel cover taller, but that's not as bad as cutting on the firewall.

If you really want to keep the 2f nv4500 you're going to need to look into a body lift. The drop at the rear of your tranny is just not right. It needs to come up at least 4" at the rear.

Thanks for your service overseas. For that you need to be commended. If your buddy did all this work for free, he should be commended. If, however, he took your money and that was the work he came back with, he needs to be strung up by his [insert body part here].

 

[Degnol]

The T/TC is waaay too low.

 

[45Kevin]

Are you using stock engine mounts? If you are they must be severely stressed and contorted.

 

[camcruiser13]

time to start fabbing, no way the setup should be angled that severe towards the ground. man im not sure id be taking anybodies truck to your buddies own shop, no offense

 

[Fast Eddy]

Are you using stock engine mounts? If you are they must be severely stressed and contorted.

Good point.

 

[pdgradney]

I can't believe it, but I am beginning to lean towards taking the damn thing out and putting the h55 in that should have been in there in the beginning.

 

[71FJ40]

Do you have the rear motor mounts installed correctly?

good pics here - Specter Off-Road Land Cruiser Parts - Page 040 Land Cruiser Motor Mounts

see the insert pics with the red frame parts