diesel swap question (1 Viewer)

[Paul DiNapoli]

calling all 60 series owners that have done a 12HT or 1HDT swap...

i posted this question over in the diesel tech forum - tons of views - no replies.
(for what it's worth - i've posted several questions in that forum and no one ever replies)

diesel swap exhaust question

i've got an 88 FJ62 that I'm planning to swap out the original 3FE for a 1HDT next spring after some major home improvement projects are behind me. my wife asked a question: will the diesel swap make the truck smelly. (fair question) my guess is yes? these are not catalyzed modern clean...

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question is about smelliness of exhaust. do we reuse the existing cats? do our cat converters on our FJ62's do anything to clean diesel emissions? does the exhaust smell like raw untreated diesel exhaust (which can be headache inducing)

i'm hoping to embark on a 1HDT swap next spring - and my wife was asking if our camping/roadtripping rig is going to smell bad with the diesel engine.

hoping for some real world feedback from folks who have been down this road already.


thanks,
PD

 

[AussieHJCruza]

I've never swapped petrol (gas) to diesel however have had a few diesel cruisers... from inside, there is no need for the truck to smell any different from it's petrol/gas burning days - with the 1HDT you're going to be swapping sides for the exhaust so you can kinda do what you like - the existing exhaust and cats will severely choke a turbo diesel - I would suggest a 3" dump and exhaust.

On the HJ61 I ran it at 45 degrees out the side behind the rear wheel and with the end past the body a little bit, and even with the rear window open, no diesel fumes inside. You could put a diesel cat on if you so desired, but I don't know if it would change much.

Having said that, obviously a 12HT or 1HDT are a 'non-emissions' diesel and will smell a lot different to the gas engine. Personally, I like it, but understandably it's not everybody's taste - my daily ford ranger has a DPF and all that stuff and personally, I find the exhaust from the 1VD better, the super clean exhaust out of the dpf seems kinda 'acrid' and makes your eyes water wheres the 1VD smells like a diesel and doesn't do that - a 1HDT with good injectors, good pump, correct timing etc is pretty clean.
My $0.02

 

[db3]

I have a turbo'd 1HZ in my 60, which is very similar to the 1HDT motor you are considering. There is no diesel exhaust smell that I can detect, but some people have much more sensitive noses than mine. When properly tuned, the 1HDT will give you great performance and excellent fuel mileage. I'm not sure about the emissions situation in Oregon, but my diesel powered 60 is smog exempt in California. The only downside, as I'm sure you are aware is the cost. If you have it done, budget at least $25K.

 

[Paul DiNapoli]

thanks folks! that was the info I was after...appreciate the feedback.

 

[FJBen]

I currently have a BJ74 with a 13BT (4 cylinder version of the 12ht). I’ve had fj60s, 62’s, 40s 80s etc. I’ve found the gassers far more unpleasant to deal with than diesels. The 13BT really only smells on first second of start with a puff of smoke.
No need for cats.

Why do you want to swap to diesel?

 

[Paul DiNapoli]

Why do you want to swap to diesel?

1 - just cuz i love diesels...have wanted one for a long time. bought my mom what will hopefully be her last car - a VW TDI Golf...amazing!!

2 - road trip fuel econ. i just got back from a road trip - portland. wyoming - idaho - home. 2200 miles. loaded with a fair bit of cargo and spent almost $700 on fuel and averaged 12 MPG for the whole trip. my 3FE is running as good as they can and sometimes I get 15+ MPG - but with 2 weeks worth of camping gear - I can't climb hills for poop - and get horrible fuel econ. coming home on I84 west bound - for 3 hours I was pushing into a headwind and got just under 10MPG... the needle was dropping awfully fast!!

3 - my 62 is super clean / rust free and I expect to be buried in it when I die - so the sooner I complete the diesel swap and start saving $$$ on road trip fuel costs - the more years I have ahead of me for it to pay off in the long run. I realize that the cost to swap is horrid - and the argument against it is that you can buy an awful lot of petrol for the same $$$ - but that still doesn't address the issue that loaded with camping cargo - I can't get up hills worth a crap...and when i'm only getting 10 to 12 mpg on a long trip - looking for fuel stations gets kinda stressful in wyoming.

 

[1811Retired]

You could do the Cummins R2.8...

 

[Paul DiNapoli]

true - but i'd like to keep it all toyota. in the portland metro area I think the nearest shop to do a cummins swap is TorFab up in seattle and the R2.8 is pushing 25K to complete. craycray money!!

 

[1811Retired]

Yeah they’re going to install one in my 60...not sure what the cost is on the Toyota diesel swaps, but a new crate motor with a mild tune sounded like a great update for it... All the best in finding the right solution for your set up! Post pics!

 

[AussieHJCruza]

Sorry to be 'that guy' but IMHO a 2.8 4 pot ain't enough engine for a cruiser of any description - Hilux/4Runner/Mini-Truck yes, but not cruiser.
YMMV

 

[Paul DiNapoli]

i'm no expert - but it's hard to refute the raw data.

R2.8 Turbo Diesel
Power161 - hp
Torque 310 - lb-ft @ 1,800 RP

1HDT
(266 lb⋅ft) of torque at 1,400 rpm.

newer tech / better fuel delivery / less weight / different compression?

the torfab guys have been singing praises that the R2.8 moves our 60 series rigs like a sports car!! (granted they're incented to say that to get folks to pony up $20K + )

still - i would rather keep mine all toyota.

 

[AussieHJCruza]

Yeah, but there isn't really any replacement for displacement - VW do a twin turbo 4 cylinder in the amarok ute 132kw and 420 nm which is close to a 79 series spec 1HD-FTE - 132 and 380 IIRC - I guarantee the 1HD-FTE pulls harder any day of the week.

My daily driver is a Ford 3.2 5 cylinder TD ranger - 147 and 470 which is more torque than the VDJ79's 151 and 430 - once again, I would tow with the cruiser over the ranger any day of the week.

Point is, figures on paper are part of the story, but where it's delivered is a different thing.

 

[davegonz]

Here's another data point. I have a turbo'd 1HZ in my 60 and have no smoke or stinky exhaust. My 40 on the other hand stinks of unburned hydrocarbons. I'm trying to decide to keep it stock or to swap in a 1HZ.

 

[FJBen]

1 - just cuz i love diesels...have wanted one for a long time. bought my mom what will hopefully be her last car - a VW TDI Golf...amazing!!

2 - road trip fuel econ. i just got back from a road trip - portland. wyoming - idaho - home. 2200 miles. loaded with a fair bit of cargo and spent almost $700 on fuel and averaged 12 MPG for the whole trip. my 3FE is running as good as they can and sometimes I get 15+ MPG - but with 2 weeks worth of camping gear - I can't climb hills for poop - and get horrible fuel econ. coming home on I84 west bound - for 3 hours I was pushing into a headwind and got just under 10MPG... the needle was dropping awfully fast!!

3 - my 62 is super clean / rust free and I expect to be buried in it when I die - so the sooner I complete the diesel swap and start saving $$$ on road trip fuel costs - the more years I have ahead of me for it to pay off in the long run. I realize that the cost to swap is horrid - and the argument against it is that you can buy an awful lot of petrol for the same $$$ - but that still doesn't address the issue that loaded with camping cargo - I can't get up hills worth a crap...and when i'm only getting 10 to 12 mpg on a long trip - looking for fuel stations gets kinda stressful in wyoming.

Sounds like great reasons. "Most" diesel swap inquiries on here always start by "I want the fuel economy." Well, that will never pay off in a diesel swap unless you get that engine for free. Your number reason is all you need.

I've got a 2000 Jetta TDI 5spd thats been my DD for the last 8 years. Great little car, but since getting my BJ74 running, it's been sitting, not too mention it needs an alternator now, and those are terrible to get to.

Since my 13BT rebuild, my average is 20mpg on the nose for those 8 fill ups. 400 mile range on stock tank. My BJ74 weighs 4600lbs empty so very similar to a 60/62. 1HDT would be an awesome setup in a 60 series.

good luck!

 

[Hojack]

I can help if going the 4BT route. The diesel tech section is a bit odd. I had not much help there too.
Follow @davegonz thread if you want to go Toyota diesel.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

question is about smelliness of exhaust. do we reuse the existing cats? do our cat converters on our FJ62's do anything to clean diesel emissions? does the exhaust smell like raw untreated diesel exhaust (which can be headache inducing)

i'm hoping to embark on a 1HDT swap next spring - and my wife was asking if our camping/roadtripping rig is going to smell bad with the diesel engine

You don't reuse the gasoline catalytic converters with diesel, but you can put in a diesel catalytic converter if you aren't happy with the smell of the exhaust. Diesel exhaust does smell different from gas exhaust, but it doesn't smell raw if it's tuned correctly.

It's really subjective. Some people I've met are more sensitive to *any* diesel exhaust. I'm more sensitive to gasoline exhaust. No one wants to be riding around in a smoke cloud, and if your exhaust is routed correctly, you'll never smell it in the cab while going down the road.

"Most" diesel swap inquiries on here always start by "I want the fuel economy." Well, that will never pay off in a diesel swap unless you get that engine for free.

That's not really true, it just takes a long, long time to recoup the swap costs.

Example: my diesel swap cost about $10k. I've been getting 18-22mpg with it since converting 6.5 years ago. With my 2F I was getting 8-10mpg. I've put about 60k miles on my swap (estimating). Just spitballing, say gas is $2.50/gal and diesel is $3.00/gal. Over those 60k miles I've saved almost $9k in fuel costs over gasoline. Does this justify converting? No, but for those in it for the long haul, this type of stat might be able to help you convince your better half

60,000/8mpg (gas) = 7500gal x$2.50/gal = $18,750
60,000/18mpg (diesel) = 3,333gal x$3/gal = $10k fuel cost

 

[Paul DiNapoli]

60,000/8mpg (gas) = 7500gal x$2.50/gal = $18,750
60,000/18mpg (diesel) = 3,333gal x$3/gal = $10k fuel cost

this is how i'm justifying it as well. i've made 3 trips from portland to wyoming in my fj62 - and they have each been around 2000 to 2500 miles. the sooner I get the diesel swap done - the sooner I start realizing the savings before I'm dead and buried in my cruiser.

and the added benefit of being able to climb hills and maintain highway speeds will be a pleasant bonus.

 

[The Machinist]

As others have mentioned, how the engine delivers the power is usually more relevant than the peak numbers. When you consider that the intended use of a cruiser is low speed off road where RPM is fairly low, the larger displacement engines will have the advantage. The R2.8 is a fantastic engine and should do great in everyday driving while being sufficient off highway, but a toyota 6 would still be my preference unless having a brand new engine was a priority. All in, the cost of a 1HD-T swap won't be that far off the cost of an R2.8, but since you already have an H55 your costs will come down a lot. (you will need to swap the input shaft though)

For me, the smell is only really noticeable if you are following a diesel on the trail, especially at altitude. I would imagine it won't be too bad from inside the car.

I have the same motivations for taking on a similar swap; better trip fuel efficiency (more specifically, better range), long term enjoyment, and having something different than an LS. Emissions exemption in CA is also a significant factor for me.... I've been collecting parts for a swap similar to @davegonz and @db3. Dave's thread is a great resource along with @kevinmrowland's thread if you want to start putting together a budget.

My 2F to 1HZ-T swap thread

My trusty 2F needed some new spark plugs so I figured it was time to replace the motor with this. :doh:

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Builds - Back in a 60 series - 1HZ Swap

I've wanted a 60 series for a while now. I really dig the round headlights and the overall look of them. Recently, my buddy Heath offered to sell me his 1987 FJ60. It has a lift, 33's, front ARB bumper, roof rack and an H55F tranny. The bad part is that the engine has a bad rod knock and the...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[OSS]

I don't have a diesel cruiser have I have never driven one, but ive driven plenty of diesel trucks of all sizes and have been around my fair share of diesel engines.

Whether something "stinks" is up to the person doing the sniffing. Most people are nose deaf (if there's such a word) and odors of anything either can't be detected at all or to them it isn't objectionable. While to others, sniffing the exact same odor, it's obnoxious and horrible and totally unacceptable. I fall into the later category.

I've never met a diesel engine that doesn't stink. They all stink even when off and not running. They stink of diesel. I have walked by and checked out a diesel cruiser parked on the road and it reeked of diesel fuel sitting there unattended. Horrible.

All diesel exhaust reeks. There's no diesel that doesn't (to me). The big problem with all diesels (not just cruiser diesels) is idling exhaust. There's no escape from those nasty fumes as the engine spews smoke into your breathing air. Want to start up a diesel in your garage? Forget about it. Need to idle the diesel at a camp spot to recharge the battery? Better take a walk 100 feet away from it while it's polluting the air.

Personally I'm very sensitive to chemical odors and I avoid diesels whenever possible. Also the exhaust has been proven to be extremely hazardous to the lungs. Much more so than gasoline.

Then there is the noise. Diesel engines are inherently loud. Annoyingly so.

 

[1811Retired]

I think if you can find the right Toyota Diesel engine that doesn’t need to be re-done and labor costs of the swap are minimized that’s a great route to take...My ‘87 has a 2F with 306k mikes on it and still runs pretty well, but gets tired easily when pulling hills. I have the H55F in it which has helped some in terms of drivability on road trips, but, long term I’ve decided that a new crate motor (R2.8) seems to be the best option.

The days of wheeling her hard are mostly done...longer trips to the beaches are what I enjoy using it for and I think the R2.8 will work just fine for that application.

I have spoken to several people who have completed this swap and they ALL have had nothing but glowing things to say about it. Additionally, they have nothing to do with the industry of installing the swaps...they’re just simply enthusiasts who love their old rigs and wanted to modernize them with a newer diesel.

The ones I’ve seen and been in had little to no smell at all. I hope you find the right fit...